I have several advanced students who do not practice much at all. I try to find things to say about their pieces, but it takes them a long time to get a handle on the notes, so I end up separating the voices, or shaping a given phrase, and doing the same things we've always done. They are committed to achieving their grade nine certificates, but don't seem to care if it takes five years to do so. I can't really give them easier music because, they can play at this level, having spent many years playing the piano and having placed well in grade eight. They just choose to play only about two hours per week. They've studied with me for many years. I would like to send them on, and am amazed they haven't quit yet. They have become dear friends. I often end up doing technique with them, or sight reading, or ear training. But I find I'm getting bored with these substitutes for real music making. What would you do in this situation?

You didn't mention having talked to *them* about their long-term goals?

What is it that they want to be working on?

Sadly, an all too common occurrence with the more advanced students. There seems to be a point where they kick back and say to themselves "okay, I know piano now" and quit working. Sometimes I will have them work on a much too difficult piece a few measures at a time. That completely depends on them though. Otherwise, I pretty much do as you've described. I ask them what their goals are now too.

2 hours a week is all most of them can do with all the other things they have going on at that age. That still boils down to about 20 minutes a day. There are a lot of teachers that do not agree with me on this, but I feel very strongly that it is more important to keep them playing and interested so they can enjoy it, than to push them too hard and end up driving them to quit and not play at all. I am not talking about MY income, but rather their love of music.

Maybe they are afraid of losing your friendship and the camaraderie of the lessons by advancing to the point of graduating?

Just a thought.

It's been my experience that a certain percentage of students fall into this category, especially if they've stuck it out with piano for this long. Generally, they're bright students, and have put in roughly two hours or so each week, for many years. Now, they've advanced to the point where two hours of weekly practice is maintenance, not advancement. For some, this is a horrible realization, for others, who haven't really found piano to be their artistic means of expression, it becomes a "who cares" attitude. You might discover, if you dig, that many of them are experiencing similar problems with their academics. They've been able to skate, getting good grades without really having to grind.

So what's the answer? Well, if we knew that, we could solve all the world's problems.

With some students, a heart to heart might help them refocus. With other students, just a maintenance diet, even learning new pieces, different styles, but not harder, keeps them going for a couple of years longer, and at some point, they may well awaken and be thankful you nursed them along. I would be honest with their parents, however, as parents have a reasonable expectation of advancement, but if they are aware of what's happening (and you'd be surprised at how many know exactly what's happening with their children, and are quite grateful that you're willing to continue working with them).

I would not be afraid to assign them a couple of easier, but perhaps flashy, works. As long as they're practicing some, and maintaining or refining skills, they are far better off than just quitting.

I regularly ask them if we're doing what they want, and we are. I gave one of them a pop song which was learned well. But mostly, he is happy plugging along with classical pieces, as is the other student. One friend says, "Not all people want piano to occupy as big a role in their lives as it does for you. Keep teaching them." I will probably do this.

But part of me wonders if they need a change, and if I should set the ball rolling. They are both very musically gifted. I have hinted in the past that there ARE other teachers. I would always be their friend, I suspect strongly. But naturally, I'd see less of them if they were to move on. They are both young adults. John says, "they may well awaken and be thankful you nursed them along." Perfect choice of words! They need to awaken, rise up, and be alive! But I think students tend to lean on their teachers and need to stand on their own two musical feet.

Enjoy the ride while it lasts!

Pick shorter pieces. Assign pieces that "sound" hard, but might not require so much practice.

If you are keen on sending them to another teacher, why not hire one of these teachers to conduct a master class for your studio? It might be a good learning experience for all.

Interesting ... as a student at that stage, I really really feel like I am at a plateau right now, sightreading to me was in fact BETTER a week ago and I am working away at 2-3 hours a day. Strangley enough, I have no problems reading a new piece with strange 2 against 5 rhythm. Any teachers out there encountered plateau moments before?

Of course! This is absolutely part of the deal. Plateaus hit with learning all through life. No worries Rebekah! You're working really hard at 2-3 hours a day, maybe you need to step back for a few days, and come back to it in a day or two. Sometimes we just need to come at something with "fresh eyes". This is not at all uncommon, you will most likely see more of them

Thank you for your kind words, for a moment I really thought that there was something wrong with me, that I possibly cant ascend, my lesson is on Tuesday, I will do some practice tomorrow but I will take your word and I will have a break from playing

You're welcome, but don't make it too long a break

Young adults have jobs to work, or university to attend, or diapers to change (to the tune of no sleep at night), or husbands to catch, or hangovers to sleep off--- or all of those things. So there's that.

The first thing that came to my mind, was motivation. Most of us need some compelling reason to make a big effort, or to make sacrifices, or to progress beyond the common. Some goal. Finding the goal they may have lost sight of, could be one key to helping your students. Then there's recognizing resistance for what it is--- it comes in many guises.

I read about 'a finished artist' in books on the history of piano technic and pedagogy. Just where that end-point lies is quite a distance from what I can see personally. My own teacher, who seems to me to have the qualities of a finished artist, apparently doesn't think so because he's still a student himself. I gather that this is somewhere on the experience curve that comes after conservatory and before senescence.

Anyway, I don't know if contemplating this would be of any help to your advanced students who are flagging in their efforts... but it's possible, having gotten so far, that considering clearly what is still missing might help re-energize them.

Just a thought.

You know, one of the possible issues with students of this sort is that they are nearing the end of the long adolescent tunnel and approaching a big change. Many 'advanced' students finally realize that they are not going to be musicians in any deep sense of the word. Yes, they probably knew this all along, but something about late high school concentrates the mind differently. Reaching that clarity can be liberating. They may realize that they don't have to quit studying now simply because they aren't going on to music school or to a career in performance. They may realize that it's OK for them not to practice several hours per day in order to accomplish what they want. OK, perhaps 2 hours per week is a bit thin, but if they're not on the competition circuit or preparing for college auditions their more modest goals can be accomplished with shorter practice times.

Choosing shorter, showy pieces that sound hard is helping me with a similar student situation. C.P.E. Bach's Solfeggietto she agreed to work up and enjoyed it. Perhaps we could come up with a list of short, flashy pieces to pass along to each other.

I did that piece with two such students. They both quit by high school (9th and 10th grade). I really dislike that piece, so if I'm teaching it, I am desperate.

Students are canny and can sense how you feel about a piece. Not so long ago, I was talking with a student and parent about more contemporary repertoire. Mom wasn't all that excited but wasn't against it. It wasn't until I dove into the first of the three Fantastic Dances by Shostakovitch, that daughter came alive. Without saying so, she detected that I really love his piano works.

One of my colleagues up the road a bit, Dr. William H. Chapman Nyaho, has published a very interesting set of five books titled: Piano Music of Africa and the African Diaspora. It's published by Oxford Press, if I recall correctly. There's a huge amount of really interesting piano music in this collection and it could well be a student saver/motivator for the right student.

I bring this up not only to give Nyaho a plug for some excellent work, but because you really have to explore 20th/21st century music a lot.

And that reminds me, Seymour Bernstein's Birds is another collection which is perfect for a recalcitrant student. Middle schoolers going through the "phase" may be ripe for The Vulture. It's dark and foreboding. Just what many of them love.

Ain't that the truth. My students all love Bartok. My mum's students not so much! Hilarious.....

I was desperate!

John:
Thank you for the suggestions, these look good!

How about some of William Bolcom's rags? They are relatively short, yet still challenging, and harmonically very interesting.

Thanks, I think the rags and African music might be just the thing.

Huh? Book 2 is a little better than Book 1, but my students really dislike Birds. Heck, even I dislike Birds.

Insects are better.

But of course your students dislike Birds. And would it surprise you that mine love it?

But really, there's very little music for piano where students actually get to sit on the keyboard.

i receive the failing to thrive students from my 'real piano teacher friend'.. the kids want to quit. the parents want them to take lessons. they are sick sick of classical and for the most part want to learn 'new things'.

I have all of them learn arpeggios and inversions in every key as well as play/learn I, IV, V, chords. They come to like this exercise... although they start out kicking and screaming with the horror of actually exercising.

i have taught Katchaturian's Tocatta.. easy to show, difficult to read.

Richard Claderman (believe it or not girls adore this book of music).. it's a blue book).

Great Movie Themes (everyone love Titanic)

I choose songs in particular keys to match the arpeggios we study. The chord names are included (fake music if you will). I have them play melody with chordal accompaniment to supplement.. i teach accompanying patterns.

It's really fun for me, and them to teach this way and for the most part they really thrive.. I am trying to get them to the point where they will want to practice and learn on their own as they go thru life.

John or anyone else who has the scores of "Birds":
I have tried several online retailers and am told this music is out of print.
Any ideas on where it can be purchased? Performances are on youtube and one of my students is interested.

He is now exclusively published by Manduca.

http://www.manducamusic.com/BernsteinPiano1.htm

I, too, LOVE Birds. Don't care for volume 2, though.

As we're discussing music which can serve as "student savers and motivators" here is another set which I have found very useful. Summer Vacation by Katherine Rollin. The harmonies are tradition, for the most part, I, IV, V, etc., with a few VI chords thrown in for modernization, but not radically modern like Birds.

The titles are intriguing, and I've found that young ladies, in particular, who are quite concerned with issues of popularity, acceptance, etc., tend to really like this set. Some of the titles are: School's Out, Bicycling, Sleepover, Sailing, Running.

In fact, many of the pieces can be used as direct substitutes for "classical" teaching pieces. The Bicycling piece can be substituted for Clementi Op 36, n.1, 3rd movement.

FWIW, that Sailing number seems to have a real hook. A number of parents have commented to me how much they like it and how happy they are that their student likes it and plays it so much. The piece itself is nothing but I, IV, V arpeggios, but you know, that's what people hear and like.

I know how they feel. Personal experience, i felt really bored nothing seemed interesting. I changed teacher and new interesting different styled pieces. Not saying this is the case

I've been sitting on this thought for a while. Please feel free to disregard it if it's off base.


I'm struck both by the fact that you are doing this, and that you have always done so. There comes a time as we advance that we realize that there is another side to music besides playing harder pieces and making them sound good. Music becomes interesting in a new way, and I don't think that we can really advance past a certain point if we don't clue in on that. There is everything that is behind music, what we use to approach it, and then actually approaching it. I wonder if these students have connected to this.

If you are separating the voices and shaping the phrases, then they aren't. One can say that if a teacher does this, then the exam results will be better, because who knows better than you with your expertise? But to me as a student it's still riding the surface. Even if I got fantastic grades and everyone praised me to the hilt I'd feel I was missing something.

One of the teachers wrote of getting disaffected advanced transfers and teaching them chords, and I think improvising. Is their interest rekindled because it is more fun, or because they are getting into understanding and shaping music themselves?

Teachers are suggesting repertoire. What if it's not the pieces, but what can be done with music - a shift in focus?

Well, one reason for suggesting alternate repertoire is to help the student discover music which reaches into them and with which they can express themselves. If you don't find Bach's inventions interesting, then try as you might, you'll probably not be able to do much with it musically.

I understand, John, but there is more to music than repertoire. There is the substance of music. When you start understanding what we call "theory" but in an alive way, and you start delving into music then any music becomes alive. The act of working through music, discovering things about it, forming your own "informed" interpretation, is exciting especially if brand new. If that world has not opened up, and it does, that can be a powerful motivator.