Got it ! So I keep the top note when I do the drop 2. Great examples Knots. The 2nd example sounds particularly beautiful and the 3rd example sounds very open indeed.

When you said that C# F# B E functions well as an E maj 7 I’m confused because there is no G# the (major) 3 ?

Knotty
If you have time, would you mind having a quick check of my approach for the chord analysis of Precipitation ?

http://www.box.net/shared/4p9az5sfut

Many thanks
cus

>> When you said that C# F# B E functions well as an E maj 7 I’m confused because there is no G# the (major) 3 ?

right, and it isn't really a drop 2 either.
But in context, this chord based on stacked 4ths works real well. Try it:
C# F# A E
D# A C F#
C# F# B E

I would keep it way more simple than that.

F-6 is i
then 2 5 1 4 like autmn leaves
then minor 2 5
to 2 5 in Bb
then 2 5 1 4 in Ab

then more 2 5 1s....
just a lot of modulation in this tune. Good thing you're not improvising on it yet...

What about scales? That would be a good exercise. Which scale fits each section.

Knotty, re the stacked fourths, I really like your 1st example C# F# A E, it is such a cool way to play E sus, I just tried it and it sounds really nice.
For your 2nd example D# A C F# why is it C and not C# ? Doesn’t the C create an F# dim sound ?

Yeah, I like your ii V I IV sequences.
In the heat of the moment when you're improvising over many modulations, do you find that it helps you more than thinking in terms of the primary key ?

Over the next few days I'm going to think of scales and run them through with you.

Thanks Knots.

I found your suggested exercise of listing the scales very helpful. I don’t want to take up too much of your time but I want to let you know that I’ve completed the exercise.

http://www.box.net/shared/1s3v4friip

Hey Cus,

for now, you can choose one scale and stick to it.

F-6 : F harm minor
Eb-7 ... : Db maj
g-7b5 ... : F harm minor
C-7 - F7 : Bb maj
Abmaj7 : Ab maj
then A harm minor
G harm minor
to F harm minor


I might do that.

Great Knotty. Thanks for simplifying this for me.
Your G harm min and F harm minor sound particularly cool for Section C.
Do you think the A harm minor (with the raised G) at the beginning of Section C sounds a bit weird over Bb maj7 chord ?

No that won't work over Bbmaj7. Over the Bbmaj7, the Bbmaj will work. it's just a 2 5 1 here.
Also the harmonic minor works great on a minor 2 5 1 which resolved on a minor 6 chord. If you play a minor 7th, it doesn't work that great. So it's up to you. The older fakebooks have -7 chords, while the more recent ones will have more -6 chords.

Hey Cus,

I know you asked for it. Here's the band playing Solar tonight.
http://www.box.net/shared/595jr5emye

++

Fantastic!

Just awesome Knotty. You are one confident and competent dude. Very cool soloing and comping. I thought your swing, sense of rhythm and choice of scales were wonderful. I enjoyed it a lot.

Very interesting. I just tried it. The harmonic minor scale sounded hip when I converted the min 7 chord to a min 6 chord. Is the min 6 a more modern "invention"/sound ?

Thanks for the compliments. Playing with folks live is just a different experience. It's a lot of fun. Everybody thinks the other guy plays better.
This is not a good example of feeling in 4s. I think about it, then lose it, then get it back... But Solar is a great jamming tune.


Re: -6
The -6 has a 6 and a major 7 in it. So it has minor 3rd and major 7th. You usually play the 6 instead of the 7, but both go. This shows in the scale too.
Arpeggios go
1 m3 5 M7 9

Knotty,

I just listened to your Solar recording. I don't know what to say because "awesome" and "fantastic" have already been used, and other words I can think of sound too bland. How about this: !#%$#%^#$%$^%& awesome and $^%**&%^&#$%^ fantastic! Your hard work is really paying off!

Ed

Well thanks Ed. That's good to hear.

It's the first time we record, and we just set up the mics the quick and dirty way and decided to record our practice session. We have like 10 more, some better than others, I have not listened to bounced them yet.

Hi
This is my 4th composition. It’s called Wet-Footed. I would value your critique so that I can improve. Thanks.

http://www.box.net/shared/02pakcifsu

http://www.box.net/shared/93rjgr464b

Cheers
cus

Hey there,

Haven't left yet?

Here's what I liked in this one:
Your phrasing is good. The length of the phrases is good, the amount of space is right, you start them on a variety of beats and use the right quantity of 1/8 vs 1/4 notes. This is a really important element that you're getting right here. Playing and singing the joi lines probably helped you along that path. So you have the main ingredient of a good solo down.

Now this isn't a particularly easy tune to solo on, but don't you feel like if you could improvise that way, you'd be pretty satisfied with yourself. I think these compositions represent the best you can hope for when you improv. Well, it's probably not that simple, but you get the idea.

You choice of scale is good too. F harm minor going to Eb blues is good. I see the typo last note of 1st measure (B natural). That's a nice touch in terms of approaching tones. I also like how you placed some tensions here and there. For example playing the 5 on the G-7b5 but quickly resolving to b5 worked well for me.

Gotta take off, will add a few more comments in a bit.

I see a recurrent printing error now.
When you put an accidental before a note (sharp or flat), the accidental keep applying until the end of the measure.


In the B section, you choose to take a lot more liberty with how you end your phrases. You end either on the 6 or, on the Maj7 in a half dim chord. This is particularly tense.

Now some things you might want to try:
* more arpeggios. I mean 1 3 5 7 and occasionally 3 5 7 9. Going up, or down. Most of your composition is scalar, which is ok, but if you squeeze in a couple arpeggios, it will outline the harmony real nice and you'll also cover a lot more range. Yes, it is difficult to sing.
* Start on up beats once in a while.
* Try a little more repetition. You can do that by either repeating a short passage, or by moving that passing up and down in the same key or a different key. You can repeat and then expand. You can also use a motif.

Also, throughout the composition, you are using a device that I don't particularly care for. 1st 3 notes of the 1st measure. 1st 3 notes of B section. 1st 3 notes, 3rd measure of B, or 1st 3 notes 7th measure of B. Do you see it?
I would try to avoid this. This works ok played really fast, kind of to blur a note. But as 1/8th, I don't really like it.

Finally, one of the thing you will need to get out of is this feeling in 2s that you play in. You need to constantly remind yourself to play blocks of 4 notes, and only accent one note out of 4. This will be the greatest challenge when you start on improvisation. Until you get this straightened out in improvisation, I would hold off on adding anything else such as rhythmic LH, up tempos or complex scales.

This is your best composition so far, you're getting a good hang of it. When you are ready to do some improv, we should start on that.

Hello Knotty
I leave in a couple of hours, I timed it so that I could finish this composition and study your detailed comments !!
Once again, you have been most helpful. Yes all the singing must have filtered into my subconscious and helped me develop the varied phrasing. For my 5th composition I will try to start on upbeats as well, as well as working on repetition.

Section B was my least favourite section. I agree that ending on the maj 7 for the Gmin7b5 phrase sounded a bit weird.

So my weaknesses are scalar movement and counting in 2s. Did you practise your Hanons in a particular way to help you count in 4s ?

When I come back in a month, I will revise Lesson 13 and then go onto Lesson 14. I know that you said that at Lesson 15 I should be ready for improvising. Should I hold off improvising until I get the counting in 4s right ? How long did it take you to have counting in 4s ingrained ?

What is the jazz standard for Lesson 5 ? The JOI jazz song is Sweet and Low.

Bye
cus

>> So my weaknesses are scalar movement
no, scalar is great, you just want to add some chords here and there. If anything, your strength is scalar movement

>> counting in 2s
yeah, but don't sweat it. I never bothered with it until I really started to improvise. All in good time.

>> Did you practise your Hanons in a particular way to help you count in 4s
I don't think so.

>> Should I hold off improvising until I get the counting in 4s right ?
No, you will see how painless improvising will be. That's when you'll want to really nail the counting in 4s. You hold off on other things such as LH rhythms, speed, complicated scales, reharm, you name it.

>>What is the jazz standard for Lesson 5 ? The JOI jazz song is Sweet and Low.
Sugar.

++

Hi Knotty
I hope you’re well. I’m back in Australia now and can’t wait to get back into JOI. During the next few days I will do the chord analysis of Sugar/ Sweet and Low for you to check. Did you do a composition for this ?
Can I please confirm that when you say counting in 4s, you mean every four notes as opposed to every four beats ? So for a measure in 4/4 time, I put the accent on beats 1 and the 3 ?

Cheers
cus

http://jazzitup-knot.blogspot.com/2009/05/honey.html

>> Can I please confirm that when you say counting in 4s, you mean every four notes as opposed to every four beats ? So for a measure in 4/4 time, I put the accent on beats 1 and the 3 ?

Yes, you count your notes in blocks of 4. You slightly accent the 1st note. Counting in 4s is not just about accents, it's about creating longer, more melodic lines.

If you take any jazz recording, and I mean just about any, where someone plays 8ths, unless he is doing something specific to get some kind of effect, you will hear this feeling in 4. Let me try to extract a few examples for you.

When you start improvising, you will keep something dead simple until you've completely taken care of this.
When playing from sheet or memorized, for me at least, it's a bit more difficult, so you don't necessarily need to worry too much, but start paying attention to this when you listen to records.


Hope you had a good time in the US!

Kenny Barron
http://www.box.net/shared/3a31pkiq38

Keith Jarrett:
http://www.box.net/shared/zil8cck3tt

Bill Evans:
http://www.box.net/shared/yztuqmo67z

If you have transcribe, slow down a lot and see if you can hear blocks of 4. It doesn't always start with a block of 4, or ends with one. But in the middle of the line, that's what you have.

> I put the accent on beats 1 and the 3
Don't worry about counting the beats so much. Just counts blocks of 4 notes. When we do improv, this will be more obvious.

Hi Knotty
Thanks very much for your composition and the mp3s you created for me to slow down to 25% with Transcribe - in particular for Keith Jarrett and Bill Evans, I could then hear the blocks of 4 notes.

I had an excellent time in San Francisco and England. One of my highlights was the Jacky Terrasson trio at Yoshi’s San Francisco. The evening had everything I could want - Jacky could swing, play ballads, standards and own compositions, use his left hand, use all registers of the piano.

Hi Knotty
Would you mind doing a quick check of my chord analysis for Lesson 5 Sugar ?

http://www.box.net/shared/t0xhuoix4d

Thanks so much !

Have a beautiful day
custard

looks great. Not familiar with the notation ii+
what does it mean?
Anyway yes, a- then d-, with just minor 2-5s.

Harmonic minor scales will work great. As far as arpeggios, on the 1 minor, you can use 1 3b 5 M7. So for example A C E G#.
Blues scales will work great also

This such a great tune to compose a solo on. have fun

Hello Knots
Thanks for confirming I’m on the right track and for the harmonic minor example.
For ii+ I just meant that it wasn’t simply a straightforward min7 chord, that it had a color added to it such as b5.

What are you working on and how is your band going ?