Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum piano techs - how much free play in a grd pno sustain pedal?

If you buy a N3 and are not happy with the sustain pedal and\or the tension, do this - first adjust the pedal to have the tension you want. Moving those bolts on the sustain pedal rod upwards creates more tension, going down, less tension.

Then remove those four screws holding the box that hides the electronic workings of the pedal harp and you'll see two screws on a adjustment plate that holds the potentiometer. The 'pot' looks just like a volume control (it is actually) and has three wires soldered to it. Just adjust that 'pot' a 1/4" clockwise (looking at it head on) and try using the sustain pedal again. I had to play with the wires a little bit since there was very little slack.

A tip on removing those four screws - remove the two that are difficult to get to first. It will make the job go a little easier.

If I were an engineer I would have made accessing this a little easier though on the other hand it's probably a one time adjustment. I just wasn't happy with the one time adjustment Yamaha did.

To clarify all of this - I wanted the sustain pedal to function as soon as I depressed the sustain pedal. I kept adjusting those bolts on the sustain pedal rod to reduce the play but as as the bolts kept being adjusted upward the tension for the pedal increased as well and it was just too much tension. This was not just my opinion. A friend of mine also played the piano and the only negative comment she made was the tension of the sustain pedal. (I made no comments in advance of my problem.)

By repositioning that potentiometer slightly I now have the lack of play that I wanted and at the tension I desired.

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Another issue was the incorrect installation of the pedal harp by the movers and that was solved by loosening up the screws that hold the bracket and sliding the rod assembly a little bit and retightening. I have now played a total of three N3's and two of them had the pedal harp incorrectly installed.

This doesn't speak well for piano movers or Yamaha dealers. They either don't notice the pianos in their own store or are oblivious to how things should be. It's not my job to do their job.

For what it's worth, Yamaha has received a letter from me regarding all of this.

I'm not a technician but there should be no noticeable free play IMHO. I have seen a few grands with play in the pedals and in all cases some screws needed to be tightened.

If there are standards for the pedal throw and stiffness, they must be largely ignored. I have compared these on a lot of grands and even on big names like Steinway you encounter huge differences, like one having a full throw while being pressed down only 1cm (and then usually is very heavy), while the next has a throw of 5cm (and then usually is light).

And it's not just Yamaha dealers that do not tighten the screws...

These pedals (in hybrids and real grands) are made to be adjusted. When I have worked jobs where the sustain pedal travelled too far before it engaged, I simply crawled on my back and made the adjustment myself.

While I'm venting, I should also have included piano tuners in this as well. How someone can tune a piano and not make a simple adjustment on the sustain pedal (to reduce excessive free play), is beyond me. Most folks who play the piano never do these small adjustments themselves. They either live with it of just assume that's the way it is.

The problem with the AvantGrand, the adjust of that free play resulted in too much of an increase of the tension of the springs keeping constant pressure on the lever.

Dave, is there a knob on the pot that you just turn by hand? Or are the 2 screws on the adjustment plate that holds the pot (that you're talking about) what you need to tweak? If the later, which one of the 2 screws do you tweak?

I should have taken a photo but it's really clear once you remove that metal box. I can't stress this enough.

The pot is mounted on a flat piece of metal, actually there are two flat pieces of metal (I believe) and one rotates. Loosen those two screws and simple rotate the pot. You won't have to rotate it much at all. I probably rotated it about one cm, less than a half inch.

This is much easier to see for yourself once you've removed that metal cover. If you are happy with the tension of the pedal and how the 'dampers' respond to your pedal movement, you'll have nothing to adjust, right?

I might go back and adjust the pot again so I can slightly increase the tension on the pedal. I like having the weight of my foot on the pedal without the pedal depressing. At the moment the pedal is set very light and just resting my foot on the pedal moves it down and triggers the sustain function. Compared to how it was, what I have now is a vast improvement.

This is really easy to do. If you're worried about screwing anything up, don't. This isn't rocket science. The amount of rotation goes from around 5 o'clock to 12 as I recall. I went from six o'clock to around 7.

This explains why on one of the N3's that I played, I felt that the damper function was not engaging until I had pressed it quite a bit. Obviously it was not adjusted to suit what I'm accustomed to, which is immediate engagement. I have now removed this as a concern from my PROS and CONS list.

I'm also going to be interested to check the acoustic grand that I play (at church) to see at what point the dampers start to engage on it. (For comparison sake, if nothing else). As Capt. Picard would say, "engage".

Lawrence

If Yamaha were smart, they'd read the dealers the riot act and make sure their sustain pedals are correctly adjusted. I put this on the same level as TVs in a store that are not properly adjusted. The TV might be a great model but since it is poorly adjusted you immediately rule it out.

I can well imagine the same happens to pianos.

I'm also going to be interested to check the acoustic grand that I play (at church) to see at what point the dampers start to engage on it.

What will that prove? The pedal adjustment is something that is your preference and your preference only. If I were to buy Oscar Peterson's piano and his sustain pedal was not set to my liking, I would change it. There's no right or wrong, it's only what your preference is.

The important thing to remember, everything is adjustable - adjustable to your tastes.

I'm still waiting for Yamaha to respond to my letter.

Normally the dealers jump in and give their two cents. How come there are no dealers or other professionals voicing their opinions here?

Any technician worth their salt will bother to take the time to adjust the pedals. I personally, adjust them to what the client likes. The acceptable standard is as has been stated, 1/4" however, I like it to be a little bit less than that but, that is my personal preference. The dampers have to be resting enough on the strings so that if you are resting your foot on the pedal a little bit, nothing will ring through.

Jerry, thanks for replying! I assume you have family in Holland?

It won't prove anything! I'm just curious. Personally I like the engagement to be immediate, with the weight / stiffness to be not too great. Since I mostly play DP, this makes sense. The piano at the church (Samick) is VERY uncomfortable to play. Someone in the past had giant casters installed on it and it makes everything too high - the music desk, the pedals etc.

Somewhere I do yep! Not sure where though.

That's an interesting point. One that I had not thought of.

Here's a jpg of that pot that I adjusted. My memory was faulty in describing it. I removed that cover again and will tweak my adjustment. The electric cable partially blocks the upper screw holding that pot in place.

Looking at it now, my adjustment was probably less than a 1/4" clockwise from where it was positioned by the factory.

(You can also see one of the metal strips I added to prevent that bracket from ever moving. It was probably unnecessary to do, but no one will see it and that bracket will never move.

Add, checking the bench bolts to that always do list...

Thanks, Dave! Pictures are always helpful for us visual learner types.

YEAH! That's a pet peeve of mine too!

Yesterday I played eight different pianos (Bechstein, Hoffmann and Steingraeber verticals and Hailun grands) and paid attention to the the free play on the damper pedal. There seemed to be quite a range of how much you had to press the damper pedal before it engaged. Interesting.