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#1469701 - 07/07/10 06:26 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Damon]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Too true Canonie from Oz,

I can read the MIDI format ... I call it by that name so that the folk don’t throw too many stones at me ... nobody likes a smart-alec ... as a fresh 26 year old architect visiting London (and working in the office of Sir Basil Spence - designer of the New Coventry Cathedral) I dreamt up the graphic format , using the Pathetique Sonata as first prototype ... 40 years later I am fortunate enough to be able to download, print and play some thousand transcribed keyboard masterpieces.

Here’s what you asked for ... MIDI of the opening 32 measures to the Beethoven sonata
Opus 111 ... I’ve just re-visited the gem at my Grotrian Steinweg and came all over goose-bumps ... images of stone-deaf Beethoven crashing those dramatic chords in the opening 4 measures ,,, and repeating the Theme higher at m5-8 (those racy arpeggio runs need some working on) ... then those glorious chiming converging chords from m9-16 ... ominously dropping the LH chord at m19 to maintain the meeting arms ... the chord at m21 drips with the finality of doom ... only to rumble into an even more macabre passage at 21-24 ... while m25-28 is positively ghoulish ending in a sepulchral pp trill.

You will notice on the graphic the six octaves of the keyboard ... divided by bold C lines ... pitch is accurately measured up and note duration across ... sharps and flats fall away by giving equal space to each of the 12 basic keyboard notes ... and numbering the notes
similar to the familiar 5 minute divisions on a clock face:
60 (C) 05, 10 (D) , 15, 20 (E) . 25 (F) , 30, 35 (G) , 40, 45 (A) , 50, 55 (B) , 60 (C)

After you’ve had your nervous breakdown ... you might like to chat some more ... it should be pointed out however, that the mind-set of the alphabetic notation makes change nigh impossible.

PS The success of the format lies in snap-reading the overall picture of the music ... where the individual notes merely articulate the shape... the grey areas represent compound sound (ie chords)

Edited by btb (07/07/10 06:49 AM)

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#1469745 - 07/07/10 08:43 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: btb]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Wow btb, I'm having a good look at it now. There are dynamics and performance indications! I've seen these when you've posted them before but never realised you used them for reading. Sorry for this thread derail but I don't spose it matters too much at this stage.

I assume this works well when you have a good sound memory of the piece, or use a recording alongside - is that right? I can see the bold lines inside the grey areas to accurately mark the notes of the chords.

And have you ever tried to read a new (to you) piece notated in this method, or got someone else to try this? It's hard to imagine that this is possible except for much simpler pieces than this. Would you say there is less detail possible in this format? or would it be possible to develop the language further?

Thanks for the explanation, I find alternative notations fascinating. My students occasionally come up with bizarre methods of notating their early compositions - things I'd never think of.

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

#1469808 - 07/07/10 10:53 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Canonie]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
My apologies I forgot Beethoven loved MIDI. It really is the best way to learn music, how insightful!

Yet you still have the balls to criticize the rest of us, who actually devote time and effort into learning something.. Yeeeah you are always right aren't you. To hell with the proper format. Oh and the second sonata is sure a piece of crap.

I think I'm goin to stop wasting my time with your amazing words of wisdom. You should feel special - you're the first user I'm ever going to put on my ignore list! Yay!

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

#1469813 - 07/07/10 11:01 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Pogorelich.]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
My search for anything new to process is like blotting paper ... anything to make my day ... but to give you some idea of the vast territory covered ... here’s a popular song by Leonard Bernstein from "West Side Story" ... the haunting "Maria".

You will notice that the lyrics are neatly perched above the keyboard outlines ... in this case there’s even a snap of a youthful Bernstein (sadly smoked himself to death ) ... I tend to play this party-piece at the drop of a hat ... don’t tempt me.

Anything new which might be spotlighted by one of our colleagues is accessed through IMSLP as with the Rachmaninoff sonata op. 36 ... thus the 40m graphic posted ... by which the content is discovered as a graphic shape ... in this case, because of the scattered nature of the note patterns and the spread between LH and RH roles, it took a few play-throughs before the music gelled.

Kind regards,

#1469819 - 07/07/10 11:16 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: btb]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2151
Loc: Canada
I don't understand the point of these when it's all too obvious from the score.

And yes, op.111 is beyond my reach, but I don't see how it becomes any closer when translated into midi. Heck, I don't even know what you're talking about any more.
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

#1469831 - 07/07/10 11:49 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Kuanpiano]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
I don't think anyone knows.. hahahahaah..

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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