Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad) Yamaha CP4 Rebate
Yamaha CP4 Rebate
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
78 registered (Aceituna, 36251, Abby Pianoman, Amosdoll, anotherpianoplayer, 21 invisible), 1009 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4
Topic Options
#1469701 - 07/07/10 06:26 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Damon]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Too true Canonie from Oz,

I can read the MIDI format ... I call it by that name so that the folk don’t throw too many stones at me ... nobody likes a smart-alec ... as a fresh 26 year old architect visiting London (and working in the office of Sir Basil Spence - designer of the New Coventry Cathedral) I dreamt up the graphic format , using the Pathetique Sonata as first prototype ... 40 years later I am fortunate enough to be able to download, print and play some thousand transcribed keyboard masterpieces.

Here’s what you asked for ... MIDI of the opening 32 measures to the Beethoven sonata
Opus 111 ... I’ve just re-visited the gem at my Grotrian Steinweg and came all over goose-bumps ... images of stone-deaf Beethoven crashing those dramatic chords in the opening 4 measures ,,, and repeating the Theme higher at m5-8 (those racy arpeggio runs need some working on) ... then those glorious chiming converging chords from m9-16 ... ominously dropping the LH chord at m19 to maintain the meeting arms ... the chord at m21 drips with the finality of doom ... only to rumble into an even more macabre passage at 21-24 ... while m25-28 is positively ghoulish ending in a sepulchral pp trill.

You will notice on the graphic the six octaves of the keyboard ... divided by bold C lines ... pitch is accurately measured up and note duration across ... sharps and flats fall away by giving equal space to each of the 12 basic keyboard notes ... and numbering the notes
similar to the familiar 5 minute divisions on a clock face:
60 (C) 05, 10 (D) , 15, 20 (E) . 25 (F) , 30, 35 (G) , 40, 45 (A) , 50, 55 (B) , 60 (C)

After you’ve had your nervous breakdown ... you might like to chat some more ... it should be pointed out however, that the mind-set of the alphabetic notation makes change nigh impossible.

PS The success of the format lies in snap-reading the overall picture of the music ... where the individual notes merely articulate the shape... the grey areas represent compound sound (ie chords)

Edited by btb (07/07/10 06:49 AM)

Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#1469745 - 07/07/10 08:43 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: btb]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Wow btb, I'm having a good look at it now. There are dynamics and performance indications! I've seen these when you've posted them before but never realised you used them for reading. Sorry for this thread derail but I don't spose it matters too much at this stage.

I assume this works well when you have a good sound memory of the piece, or use a recording alongside - is that right? I can see the bold lines inside the grey areas to accurately mark the notes of the chords.

And have you ever tried to read a new (to you) piece notated in this method, or got someone else to try this? It's hard to imagine that this is possible except for much simpler pieces than this. Would you say there is less detail possible in this format? or would it be possible to develop the language further?

Thanks for the explanation, I find alternative notations fascinating. My students occasionally come up with bizarre methods of notating their early compositions - things I'd never think of.

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

#1469808 - 07/07/10 10:53 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Canonie]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4581
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow
My apologies I forgot Beethoven loved MIDI. It really is the best way to learn music, how insightful!

Yet you still have the balls to criticize the rest of us, who actually devote time and effort into learning something.. Yeeeah you are always right aren't you. To hell with the proper format. Oh and the second sonata is sure a piece of crap.

I think I'm goin to stop wasting my time with your amazing words of wisdom. You should feel special - you're the first user I'm ever going to put on my ignore list! Yay!

"Doing things changes things. Not doing things leaves things exactly as they were."

#1469813 - 07/07/10 11:01 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Pogorelich.]
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4264
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
My search for anything new to process is like blotting paper ... anything to make my day ... but to give you some idea of the vast territory covered ... here’s a popular song by Leonard Bernstein from "West Side Story" ... the haunting "Maria".

You will notice that the lyrics are neatly perched above the keyboard outlines ... in this case there’s even a snap of a youthful Bernstein (sadly smoked himself to death ) ... I tend to play this party-piece at the drop of a hat ... don’t tempt me.

Anything new which might be spotlighted by one of our colleagues is accessed through IMSLP as with the Rachmaninoff sonata op. 36 ... thus the 40m graphic posted ... by which the content is discovered as a graphic shape ... in this case, because of the scattered nature of the note patterns and the spread between LH and RH roles, it took a few play-throughs before the music gelled.

Kind regards,

#1469819 - 07/07/10 11:16 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: btb]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2173
Loc: Canada
I don't understand the point of these when it's all too obvious from the score.

And yes, op.111 is beyond my reach, but I don't see how it becomes any closer when translated into midi. Heck, I don't even know what you're talking about any more.
Working on:
Kapustin - Sonata-Fantasy op.39 - Movement 4
Liszt - Piano Sonata
Ravel - Ondine

#1469831 - 07/07/10 11:49 AM Re: Rach and his 2nd sonata [Re: Kuanpiano]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4581
Loc: not somewhere over the rainbow
I don't think anyone knows.. hahahahaah..

"Doing things changes things. Not doing things leaves things exactly as they were."

Page 4 of 4 < 1 2 3 4

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
circle of 5ths coaster
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Hal Leonard Teacher VIP
Hal Leonard Teacher VIP Your Source for Piano Music
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Playing notes at the same time
by Badinage
40 minutes 52 seconds ago
Roland DP90e / DP90se vs F130r
by markalien
54 minutes 8 seconds ago
Romantic era pieces (for beginners to intermediates)
by Dave Androos
Today at 04:23 AM
What happened to Polyphonist?
by JoelW
Yesterday at 10:45 PM
Sohmer Upright piano model 34A
by dbf
Yesterday at 09:25 PM
What's Hot!!
Trade Regrets: Gary Trafton - Piano Rep
Historic Piano Documents
Posting Pictures on the Forums
Forums Rules & Help
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
Forum Stats
78,727 Registered Members
43 Forums
162,899 Topics
2,391,019 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |

copyright 1997 - 2015 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission