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#146661 - 12/08/07 10:00 PM ergonomic piano bench
alx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
I am interested in puchasing a piano bench to help relieve neck and back pain. I have found the Lanzani ergonomic bench (angled bench seating surface) and the Lanzani Beethoven (bench with back).They are both expensive. Does anyone have experience with either of these. Unfortunately the dealers are not anywhere close to me, and I may have to purchase without sitting on them. Also I am looking more for the traditional type of bench, rather than the type of piano seat that looks like an office chair. I would apreciate any feedback.

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#146662 - 12/08/07 11:27 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Mechanical Doll Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 199
Loc: Garden State, USA
I realize this is a specialty seat, but can someone explain why even the lowest priced seat on the site is roughly $815 (not including shipping). It seems excessive...

(sorry for the slight hijack ;\) )
_________________________
Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. ~Confucius

Music is moonlight in the gloomy night of life. ~Jean Paul Richter

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#146663 - 12/09/07 12:41 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
alx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
what site are you talking about?

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#146664 - 12/09/07 01:27 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Famous Pies Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 82
Loc: Santa Fe NM
I Googled "Lanzani bench" and found a few tidbits. The best were in the biographical sketch of the inventor of the bench, Dr. Anna Maria Habermann. Here is an excerpt:

She got her medical degree with "summa cum laude" at the Siena university in 1969 and has worked as assistant doctor in pathology and surgery and propedeutics at the university of Milano with prof. Gallone. Later she specialized in anesthesy and reanimation.

Propedeutics??? Anesthesy??? Reanimation???

Ergonomic bench url: http://www.ergonomicpianobench.com/

Dr. Habermann page url: http://www.doctorshobbies.com/DocPresentations/HabermannAnnamaria.htm
_________________________
M&H "A" #92414

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#146665 - 12/09/07 04:41 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
alx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
The Lanzani Haberman bench is on of the ones I am interested in. I wanted to know if anyone has one, or has experience with using one. The Lanzani Beethoven bench/chair also appears like it my help relieve some back pain associated with long practicing at the piano. Another Italian benchmaker called Discacciatti makes a similar bench to the Lanzani Haberman. It may be less money, but I do not know if it is the same quality. It is apparently sold in by Bondy piano in New York city.

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#146666 - 12/09/07 08:17 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
VGrantano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 771
Loc: New Jersey
I am very aware of the Discacciatti Ergo bench.
It is amazing. A few years ago they were displayed
at a music teacher convention I was at. The teachers loved them. And quite a few bought them.

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#146667 - 12/09/07 08:53 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
josephl Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 39
Loc: Richmond, VA
I found this very interesting. As a cellist many of us have used cushions to change the angle of the hips and pelvis. I play cello with a special bench that is inclined at 15 degrees very much like this bench. It is a very comfortable and more relaxed position. So it makes sense that a pianist would benefit from a similar sloped bench.
_________________________
Joseph L
Brodmann BG 187
http://www.pianoworld.com/Uploads/files/Jlbg1871.JPG

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#146668 - 12/09/07 02:40 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
lovebach Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 160
Loc: Indiana
The BEST piano bench is no piano bench! I use a spare dining room chair that has a cushion on it. Quite comfortable, perfect height. Piano benches are o-k, I suppose, but the adjustable ones are so heavy...too much so. Just go to an office store and find a good chair, or to a garage sale and get one there. The only requirement is that you're comfortable.
_________________________
lovebach

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#146669 - 07/30/08 06:10 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
anna maria habermann Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 7
Loc: italy
I would clarify to "famous pies' member rated #20066" -who wrote an "ironic message" about my biografical sketch- that I am specialized in "orthopedic and trauma surgery" as he could read on: "www.doctorshobbies/DocPresentation/AnnamariaHabermann.htm" (after the beginning of the article -where is reported only my first work as anaestesist) I would also specify that I am not the author of this page (written by dr Wolgang Ellenberger)which contains an expcerpt of my activities also as pianist and writer.
Best regards.
Anna Maria Habermann (patent owner of ergonomic bench "LINEA dr.Habermann"-www.collezionelanzani.com)
_________________________
linea dr.habermann
ergonomic bench by collezionelanzani

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#146670 - 07/30/08 06:27 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11190
Loc: Canada
The site advertising the chair has a drawing of a pianist sitting on a regular bench, showing bad posture caused by the bench. The figure in the drawing is sitting far back on the bench. However, as I recall pianists are to sit on the first third of the bench, not quite literally on the edge of it, but closer to the edge than the middle.

When I sit on the edge of the bench as is recommended, the weight of my legs tends to create the favourable pelvic tilt of the slanted chair. I don't know if it does so as well as the ergonomic chair. I am curious first of all whether my impression of the "sit at the first third of the chair" is supposed to have just that effect?

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#146671 - 07/30/08 10:27 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Naked Shaman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 96
Loc: Savannah,Ga
ark - I also have back pain. Just did a Goggle search for "orthopedic seat cushions". Very interesting and worth a try. Found cushions from $14.99 to $44.99. I would try one of these before spending 700 Bucks on a new bench!!!!!

Naked

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#146672 - 07/30/08 10:41 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
sotto voce Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 6163
Loc: Briarcliff Manor, NY, USA
 Quote:
Originally posted by anna maria habermann:
I would clarify to "famous pies' member rated #20066" -who wrote an "ironic message" about my biografical sketch- that I am specialized in "orthopedic and trauma surgery" as he could read on: "www.doctorshobbies/DocPresentation/AnnamariaHabermann.htm" (after the beginning of the article -where is reported only my first work as anaestesist) I would also specify that I am not the author of this page (written by dr Wolgang Ellenberger)which contains an expcerpt of my activities also as pianist and writer.
Best regards.
Anna Maria Habermann (patent owner of ergonomic bench "LINEA dr.Habermann"-www.collezionelanzani.com) [/b]
Dr. Habermann,

You shouldn't take too much offense at Famous Pies' comments. They make light of some bad translations that can sometimes be unintentionally hilarious.

This matter is something you definitely should address with Dr. Ellenberger, as it creates issues of professional credibility and image.

Propedeutics does seem to be an English word, but I'm not sure it's the correct one for what you mean; anesthesy is not, though, and reanimation is something you definitely don't want to be associated with. It connotes reviving the dead, not reawakening the anesthetized!

Steven
_________________________

"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and cats."
—Albert Schweitzer

Chopin: Allegro de Concert Op. 46
Schumann: Toccata Op. 7
Fauré: Ballade Op. 19

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#146673 - 07/30/08 10:57 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
keystring Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11190
Loc: Canada
If the offending wording is from a translation, then a revisor (translator) should be chosen whose first language is English, and who also has a background in the specialist field so that he understands the terms as well as the concepts. I am writing as a professional translator. The importance of a good translation is often underestimated. Your name, company or product is reflected by the wording, and you do not want your site to turn into a joke because of poor wording, or even have false information because of an eroneous translation. If you are a doctor, then the translation of your words should sound as though they were written by a doctor.

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#146674 - 07/30/08 06:32 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
John Pels Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 1253
Loc: Tomball, Texas
Both Abbey Simon and Josef Hoffman utilized a similar design in concert.That is, they had small blocks under the rear legs to give the bench the forward rake. I tried it a few times, but never really got acclimated. If I am playing a program memorized I never have any back pain. I tend to get the typical upper back pain when sight-reading. It would be nice to know what sort of back pain these benches are supposed to prevent.

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#146675 - 07/30/08 08:09 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
 Quote:
Originally posted by John Pels:
If I am playing a program memorized I never have any back pain. I tend to get the typical upper back pain when sight-reading. It would be nice to know what sort of back pain these benches are supposed to prevent. [/b]
very interesting observation.

as to the bench, i would try to create a a unit relieved my pain, and then order one that is similar... perhaps starting with a low chair or bench and adding various cushions or pads to achieve a posture that does not hurt.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#146676 - 07/30/08 10:03 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Del Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/03
Posts: 5067
Loc: Olympia, Washington
These benches look like they are nicely designed and constructed.

I do wonder, however, about the enforceability of that patent. I should think the nearly identical player piano benches of the early 1900s would constitute prior art. I have seen both fixed-height and adjustable-height player benches with both hard wood and padded tops. All of these had tilting top mechanisms of some sort. Some time back I had a beautiful old player upright with an original adjustable bench nearly identical to the one shown on the website mentioned earlier. The only substantive difference was that the padded top of this bench could be used either flat in the normal position or tilted. In its tilted position it looked—and I’m sure, functioned—just like the ergonomic benches under discussion. The tilting feature was provided to make it easier for someone to pump the bellows when the piano was being used as a manual player.

ddf
_________________________
Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon

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#146677 - 07/30/08 11:09 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
alx Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/09/06
Posts: 88
Loc: USA
I am glad this thread was revived. I originally posted this thread in December 2007. I was having pain in my upper back while playing the piano. This ocurred after I slipped a disc in my neck in December 2006. I have sinced purchased a Lanzani ergonomic bench designed by Dr Haberman. I am an orthopaedic surgeon, and I tried several options before purchasing. I tried a wedge cushion on my artist bench. Somehow this did not work too well. I also propped up the back legs of my artist bench, and this worked pretty good. I tried a Disciatti bench, and this bench was pretty good, but was not readily available in leather like I wanted. I decided to go with the lanzanin bench which I really like. I toyed with the idea of building an adjustable bench like Del suggested where the seat could be flat, or elevated at different heights but never really go around to buidling one. I also considered a bench with a back, but I the angle bench seemed to be the best idea. And so far this has worked out well.

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#146678 - 07/31/08 07:25 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Barbara G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 495
Loc: N. Texas
Welcome Dr. Haberman. Thanks for joining PW and please tell us more about your bench or anything else that you would like to say. We are very pleased that you have contributed. Please stay around.
_________________________
Master of Music, School Teacher, Church Musician- See "Our Adventure to a New grand" thread... http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/18212.html

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#146679 - 08/03/08 09:20 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Strings & Wood Offline


Gold member until Dec. 2012


Registered: 05/22/08
Posts: 1833
Loc: USA
I have an adjustable bench. The seating surface is mounted onto a metal frame that moves within the wood frame. I removed the screws in the back of the bench top - inserted (2) 3/4" spacers and replaced the screws with (2) longer screws. The end result is a slight tilt downward from back to front. This has made for a much more comfortable playing position relating to my back.
Also, the front of the bench would cut circulation in my legs and now it is much improved. For those with this type of bench it is a quick fix.
_________________________



Schimmel K213 NWS




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#146680 - 08/08/08 03:23 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
anna maria habermann Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 7
Loc: italy
Many thanks to all "Piano Forums'members" who answered to dr. Habermann, especially to Steven Sottovoce and Keystring -whose I have appreciated the explanations- and to Ark and Jordang -who was welcoming my first approach to the Forum.
I apologize for my simple english. It is very difficult for me explain my toughts in one language that I never studied.
The John Pels' observation is correct: when we are plaiyng a memorized program, the whole body is without tensions because,after an intensive study- that "tapes" all perceptions in a "full cerebral ENGRAMMA" (I can't find the traslations of this medical word...)- our brain becomes as a "conductor" of our arms, hands, fingers, legs, neck etc. The same freedom of movement -for me- happens when I play withdrawing in the dark, or closing my eyes...
I don't know if you could understand my ideas written in this basic english, but I thank for your patience. Next time I will write about benches and different peoples'perception on sitting... Ciao
Anna Maria H.
_________________________
linea dr.habermann
ergonomic bench by collezionelanzani

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#146681 - 08/10/08 06:21 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
WolfgangEllenberger Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/28/03
Posts: 5
Loc: D-74722 Buchen (Germany)
Hi everybody,
now Wolfgang Ellenberger is writing, apologising to Annamaria Habermann for my possibly uncorrect english (I am native German...).
Anyways she is medical doctor and being specialised as orthopedic doctor and having a piano diploma she is even more skilled to design this bench and she has well-done!!
I use it myself and I could improve my piano technique with it as a professional pianist (and medical doctor as well). For this reason I do not have enough time to go after each detail of the web....
BUT it makes possible to everyone to get his "copy" of a linea Dr. Habermann at any design with a simple online order. And it goes out to USA, to Australia, to Japan, Europe everywhere.
Read the tesimonials from clients they are 100 % original text from the clients:
http://www.doctorshobbies.com/Testimonials/TestimonialCarolHolmberg.htm
http://www.doctorshobbies.com/Testimonials/TestimonialAmedeo.htm

In PLUS I would like to offer to everybody with different sorts of back pain to take training units from me with the "Relativity Formula of Piano Playing" and you can find some explanations about it online (though limited possibility to explain eveything via web) at www.PIANOspecial.com
I am working at a psychosomatic hospital and you could even book a rehabilitation there in accordance with your health insurance, so we could work there for 6 weeks in a unique workshop type of thing.

Take care and see the essential thing: How to improve piano playing and sharing joy with music.

Yours
Wolfgang
_________________________
Wolfgang Ellenberger

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#146682 - 08/10/08 11:03 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Marty in Minnesota Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1178
Loc: Minnesota
Hmmm

Does anyone else think there is something very strange about this thread?
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Marty in Minnesota

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#146683 - 08/11/08 12:17 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Bear 1 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 1348
Loc: Hillsboro Beach South Florida
 Quote:
Originally posted by Marty_2:
Hmmm

Does anyone else think there is something very strange about this thread? [/b]
Yup!

Bear
_________________________
Barry J "Bear" Arnaut ♫
46 Years in the Piano Industry
Retired Kawai/Shigeru Kawai Regional Manager
(My posts and threads are my opinions only)

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#146684 - 08/11/08 09:19 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
orly

i really like it when people of different perspectives weigh in.

let their voices be heard.

Wolfgang Ellenberger.. you have an interesting website.

that said, Wolfgang, if you happen to read again, there is a story that one of our posters wrote about Noona and her search for the elusive excellent piano. there is an ellenberg or ellenberger piano and gosh, i hardly remember - but one of the 'bad' dealers sold an ellenberger piano..


where is that thread?
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#146685 - 08/11/08 11:20 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
Barbara G Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 495
Loc: N. Texas
Thank you Apple. It is very exciting to have new people with unusual expertise join the group here. It sure enriches our World.
_________________________
Master of Music, School Teacher, Church Musician- See "Our Adventure to a New grand" thread... http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/18212.html

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#146686 - 08/12/08 03:46 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
anna maria habermann Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 7
Loc: italy
TO YOUR ATTENTION, dears piano forum members!!!

I would clarify that I AM NOT INTERESTING TO ANY SALE of ergonomic bench "linea dr Habermann"

For marketing I have entrusted my producers, the Lanzani sons of Seveso: they are two handycraftsman who make these benches in accordance with my instructions about the ORIGINAL MODEL.
The "collezionelanzani" manifactur is the only one AUTHORIZED TO SELL these benches, carefully realized by hands, with the best materials! (Therefore the Lanzani benches' prize is higher than the Discacciati's benches, which are copies of my ergonomic model...)
I think that in each country the Lanzani have some legitimate agent who can buy and sell their products...
With best regard
"ciao"
anna maria
_________________________
linea dr.habermann
ergonomic bench by collezionelanzani

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#146687 - 09/23/08 12:35 PM Re: ergonomic piano bench
peter bondy Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/23/08
Posts: 5
Loc: nyc
My company sells the ergonomic Discacciati bench some of you have refered to. It is the 105 Prof and we have only heard positive feedback on this bench. It sells primarily to people with back problems and there has never been a return of this item.

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#146688 - 10/03/08 10:23 AM Re: ergonomic piano bench
anna maria habermann Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 7
Loc: italy
to peter bondy, from annamaria H.
it is right! the pianist's position is ok...
In fact the sloping surface (sitting angle) of the Discacciati' benches are similar to my benches "Linea" because are the COPY of my bench!
(we had a long legal controversy about...)
BUT: my original model(28 april 1993, patented as "brevetto industriale d'utilità n.231374" Madrid register for Europe-2 august 1993/ Torino by Jacobacci & Perani)-which I dealed in "exclusive concession for production" to CollezioneLanzani- is different in some carefully realizations (padding materials,double pantographe,solidity, possibility to change sloping degrees( 9°+/-2°) and so on ...)!
ciao...
amh
_________________________
linea dr.habermann
ergonomic bench by collezionelanzani

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