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#1470259 - 07/08/10 01:26 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: hawgdriver]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver

Sometimes your mind wanders. This is no great revelation. How can I concentrate and focus better?
By lifestyle I mean Mens sana in corpore sano (which is not just about fitness).
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snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
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#1470306 - 07/08/10 04:19 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: hawgdriver]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3575
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver
To the point I was trying to make regarding mind-control and anxiety, I don't know it's as much lifestyle as it is confidence. If I had the knowledge--the visceral impression of a previous experience--that my performance would be fantastic, then it very likely would be. But the future reality of my actual performance is on the edge uncertainty--I have no experience of righteously playing this piece for an audience--so anxiety will be (for me at least) a certainty.



This is either a very brilliant insight or the most inane piece of psyco-babble I've ever read here smile - and I can't figure out which - perhaps a restatement in other words...

JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1470309 - 07/08/10 04:30 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: rocket88]
TrapperJohn Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 3575
Loc: Chocolatetown, USA
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver

To your point about lifestyle, if I interpret it as you meant, is that if I have distractions in my life (relationship problems, money problems, etc.) then they will seep into my piano life. Concur.


Isn't that a requirement to play the Blues? So it can be a good thing.


A good thing? So, if one would want to play the Blues well - authenically - then one should need to have, one should hope to have, one should strive to have, distractions and problems?

JF
_________________________
Every difficulty slurred over will be a ghost to disturb your repose later on. Frederic Chopin

Current favorite bumper sticker: Wag more, bark less.

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#1470340 - 07/08/10 07:22 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: TrapperJohn]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3160
Its tongue-in-cheek, John. Lighten up.
_________________________
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#1470351 - 07/08/10 08:19 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: rocket88]
Day Dreamer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/10
Posts: 32
Hi everyone,since this is a self-teaching journey. I'm curious to know if anyone doing exercises like Hanon, Czerny, ... and such?


PS: At the moment I am VERY tempted to look for a teacher. The result of "Figuring out things on my own" for the last 2 weeks has been disappointing:

1. I play sloppily with constant raggedness
2. I have problems with rhythm. I can't feel the beat myself. I'm totally reliant on the metronome.

Well, guys maybe I will look for a teacher and see how...


Edited by Day Dreamer (07/08/10 08:28 AM)

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#1470363 - 07/08/10 08:51 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Day Dreamer]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I use Hanon and Schmitt. There are lots of pro and con arguments about exercises, but exercises seem to help me.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sloppily" or "ragged"; that can cover a lot of different aspects of playing. (My playing can easily sound like an angry mob storming the castle if I'm not careful.) If you're referring to rhythm, some find counting out loud helpful, especially emphasizing the strong beats. Are your difficulties with maintaining the pulse of the piece, or are there tricky rhythms that are throwing you off?

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#1470365 - 07/08/10 08:57 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: moscheles001]
Day Dreamer Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/23/10
Posts: 32
Hi moscheles001,

What I meant by raggedness is the transition from note to note isn't smooth or interrupted. Probably because I can't maintain steady rhythm. Some notes sound longer than a beat some are shorted than supposed hence the unevenness of notes sound.

I believe the piece I'm playing is NOT too hard (slow tempo with simple notes) but it has eighth and sixteenth notes. The rhythm is 3/4

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#1470391 - 07/08/10 09:45 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Day Dreamer]
GracieCat Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 340
Loc: USA
I work on some Hanon. I don't know if there are different Hanon books but mine is The Virtuoso Pianist in sixty exercises. I have worked on exercises #1, 2 and #6. I use to play them a few times a week, but now I'm lucky to do them once a week. I find them helpful...and boring after awhile.

Day Dreamer, are you able to clap a steady beat to a song on the radio?
_________________________
Started piano Dec 2009
----------------------
Working on:
-Anything composed by D. Nevue

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#1470397 - 07/08/10 09:56 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Day Dreamer]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I'd definitely try counting out loud, then. Try also clapping the rhythms away from the piano.

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#1470401 - 07/08/10 10:01 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: GracieCat]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I've never found Hanon boring; I think because I try to concentrate very hard on evenness and relaxation. It may help to think of each exercise as a repetitive sequence within an extended solo, like the cadenza from the first movement of the Fifth Brandenburg Concerto. (That's a stretch, I know, but it works for me.)

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#1470446 - 07/08/10 11:51 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: TrapperJohn]
hawgdriver Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: John Frank
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver
To the point I was trying to make regarding mind-control and anxiety, I don't know it's as much lifestyle as it is confidence. If I had the knowledge--the visceral impression of a previous experience--that my performance would be fantastic, then it very likely would be. But the future reality of my actual performance is on the edge uncertainty--I have no experience of righteously playing this piece for an audience--so anxiety will be (for me at least) a certainty.



This is either a very brilliant insight or the most inane piece of psyco-babble I've ever read here smile - and I can't figure out which - perhaps a restatement in other words...

JF


Haha, hi John. It's most definitely the latter, but I'll try again to make sense. I'm a wretched communicator.

Ok, so in general I am a confident, even cocky person cool , and if you’ll forgive the boorishness of sharing this story, I think it will allow me to make a point. Most of my cockiness is due to past experiences in which the reality of certain abilities seem plain and true—for example, I’m really good at math. For me this started in kindergarten when I realized I was way beyond the other kiddos' addition flash-card chops. I was so dominating at this ‘around the world’ flash card game that there was no other possible conclusion besides ‘I’m the best at this’. I couldn’t be beaten, and it wasn't ever close, and I was the youngest kid in kindergarten. And so this experience and others like it have given me a certain confidence in matters related to math. I feel like I’m probably going to be the best in any group. I’m actually kind of eager to demonstrate this, and perhaps earn more accolades. There is no anxiety for me in a math demonstration, especially not when I know the abilities of the competition. And sometimes you are going to lose at some level, when the competition becomes increasingly more talented. But in general, if you experience a lot of success, instead of apprehension in a performance situation, you might feel pleasant anticipation—because of your confidence and past experiences.

If I could restate it in the context of the story I shared and the piano:

If you knew you were good at playing a piece, and had that reality, hard and incontrovertible, presented to you—then you would be likely to feel pleasant anticipation rather than anxiety. It’s when there is uncertainty that anxiety may distract or get the best of you (and I know that it has me). Therefore it seems useful to arrange a series of ‘rigged’ contests to build confidence. But you couldn’t know that they were rigged, right? Then you wouldn’t have that visceral feeling that you *are* good. I don't have an answer, but I figure it's related to practicing until you are good + having some talent.

If I’m lucky then that made more sense…but somehow I doubt it. Math is my strength, not communication… frown


Edited by hawgdriver (07/08/10 11:52 AM)
_________________________
Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski

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#1470466 - 07/08/10 12:19 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Day Dreamer]
hawgdriver Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: Day Dreamer
Hi everyone,since this is a self-teaching journey. I'm curious to know if anyone doing exercises like Hanon, Czerny, ... and such?


PS: At the moment I am VERY tempted to look for a teacher. The result of "Figuring out things on my own" for the last 2 weeks has been disappointing:

1. I play sloppily with constant raggedness
2. I have problems with rhythm. I can't feel the beat myself. I'm totally reliant on the metronome.

Well, guys maybe I will look for a teacher and see how...


My teacher has me using Czerny (op 823 little pianist), and I've gone through a half dozen pieces in 'little pianist'. To be frank, I think it's mostly a waste of time. Mostly. I have gained from the Cz studies a bit. But I'm not convinced that I couldn't have achieved the same results with more compelling (complicated) music. For example, some of the final measures of Schubert's d760 are simply c-maj arpeggios at tempo.

Why learn this in a vacuum instead of to achieve a goal? To me, learning it to play it in context is so much more meaningful. I have more motivation to master it.

Things my teacher has instilled that I would not have learned on my own (I was just using the sheet music for Schubert d760 w/o fingerings):

parsimony of body movement and tension release / 'hand as workshop' concept--visual image of effortless playing
that musicality is all that really matters for conservatory judges
erasing all mistakes is the goal, and sometimes this means practice perfectly and quite slowly and with dynamics at slow tempo
ascending thumbs need to tuck immediately

I figure that's probably obvious to all of you, but it had to be pointed out to me.
_________________________
Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski

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#1470469 - 07/08/10 12:23 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: TrapperJohn]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5539
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
Originally Posted By: John Frank
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver

To your point about lifestyle, if I interpret it as you meant, is that if I have distractions in my life (relationship problems, money problems, etc.) then they will seep into my piano life. Concur.


Isn't that a requirement to play the Blues? So it can be a good thing.


A good thing? So, if one would want to play the Blues well - authenically - then one should need to have, one should hope to have, one should strive to have, distractions and problems?

JF


Yes. Here's the definitive discussion (I didn't write it - the attribtution is at the end):

"HOW TO SING THE BLUES

by Lame Mango Washington
(attributed to Memphis Earlene Gray with help from Uncle Plunky, revisions by Little Blind Patti D. and Dr. Stevie Franklin)

1. Most Blues begin, "Woke up this morning."

2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues, 'less you stick something nasty in the next line, like " I got a good woman, with the meanest face in town."

3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then find something that rhymes ... sort of: "Got a good woman - with the meanest face in town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher - and she weigh 500 pound."

4. The Blues are not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch; ain't no way out.

5. Blues cars: Chevys and Cadillacs and broken-down trucks. Blues don't travel in Volvos, BMWs, or Sport Utility Vehicles. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft an' state-sponsored motor pools ain't even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin' to die.

6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults sing the Blues. In Blues, " adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot a man in Memphis.

7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or any place in Canada. Hard times in St. Paul or Tucson is just depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City still the best places to have the Blues. You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.

8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the blues. A woman with male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg cuz you skiing is not the blues. Breaking your leg cuz an alligator be chomping on it is.

9. You can't have no Blues in an office or a shopping mall. The lighting is wrong. Go outside to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.

10. Good places for the Blues:
a. highway
b. jailhouse
c. empty bed
d. bottom of a whiskey glass

Bad places:

a. Ashrams
b. gallery openings
c. Ivy League institutions
d. golf courses

11. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less you happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it.

12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues? Yes, if:

a. you're older than dirt
b. you're blind
c. you shot a man in Memphis
d. you can't be satisfied

No, if:

a. you have all your teeth
b. you were once blind but now can see
c. the man in Memphis lived.
d. you have a retirement plan or trust fund.

13. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck. Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues [jotur's EDIT: Until very recently that is]. Gary Coleman could. Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.

14. If you ask for water and Baby give you gasoline, it's the Blues.

Other acceptable Blues beverages are:

a. wine
b. whiskey or bourbon
c. muddy water
d. black coffee

The following are NOT Blues beverages:

a. mixed drinks
b. kosher wine
c. Snapple
d. sparkling water

15. If it occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death. Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is the electric chair, substance abuse, and dying lonely on a broken down cot. You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or getting liposuction.

16. Some Blues names for women:

a. Sadie
b. Big Mama
c. Bessie
d. Fat River Dumpling

17. Some Blues names for men:

a. Joe
b. Willie
c. Little Willie
d. Big Willie

18. Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.

19. Make your own Blues name (starter kit):

a. name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.)
b. first name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, Kiwi,etc.)
c. last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)
For example, Blind Lime Jefferson, or Cripple Kiwi Fillmore, etc.

(Well, maybe not "Kiwi.")

20. I don't care how tragic your life: you own a computer, you cannot sing the blues. You best destroy it. Fire, a spilled bottle of Mad Dog, or get out a shotgun. I don't care.

back to aNaLoG.MaN"

So rocket's right smile laugh

Cathy






Edited by jotur (07/08/10 12:30 PM)
Edit Reason: spacing
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#1470492 - 07/08/10 12:57 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: jotur]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
That is GREAT! laugh

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#1470531 - 07/08/10 02:05 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: jotur]
Glen R. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 130
Loc: Alberta, Canada
OMG that was funny!
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Be the person your dog thinks you are.

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#1470630 - 07/08/10 04:47 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Glen R.]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Wonderful Cathy. I was worried perhaps we couldn't have blues in Scotland. But then I read this:

You cannot have the blues in any place that don't get rain.

And now I know it's OK. Just as well....

Ah woke up in the morning, banged ma heid
bum biddy bum, bum biddy bah
Need ma blooz tae get outta bed
bum biddy bum, bum biddy bah


Edited by ten left thumbs (07/08/10 04:48 PM)
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www.justfingers.co.uk
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#1470686 - 07/08/10 05:45 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: ten left thumbs]
Ejay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 216
Loc: U.K.
No Blues in Scotland...noooo way , not allowed, no in oor bonnie land. A lament yes, but no the blues. wink
_________________________
Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.
Maya Angelou


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#1470690 - 07/08/10 05:49 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Ejay]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2392
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Ejay
No Blues in Scotland...noooo way , not allowed, no in oor bonnie land. A lament yes, but no the blues. wink


But it's half of your flag?!
_________________________
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#1470699 - 07/08/10 05:59 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Andy Platt]
jotur Online   blank
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 5539
Loc: Santa Fe, NM
"Neil Gow's Lament for His Second Wife" sort of sounds like there might be a blues story behind it -

laugh

Cathy
_________________________

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#1470718 - 07/08/10 06:29 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Andy Platt]
Ejay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 216
Loc: U.K.
You mean St Andy's flag.. yes but that is deep blue, not a moody blue... lol

We do have some lovely laments Cathy, but they are haunting, not moody. ..although the jeely piece song is kinda full o self pity.

(Disclaimer, I don't really dislike blues music, lol)


One thing I have noticed is how many laments are played , especially out side Europe, like merry dances. Loch Lomond and the Massacre of Glencoe being just two examples.
So back on topic, as self taught, how do we distinguish between bad examples on youtube for instance and good recordings ?
_________________________
Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.
Maya Angelou


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#1470902 - 07/09/10 12:26 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Ejay]
BenPiano Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/09
Posts: 1171
Loc: US
Originally Posted By: Ejay
So back on topic, as self taught, how do we distinguish between bad examples on youtube for instance and good recordings ?


My experience has been to view several versions and then it's quite clear which version is appropriate.

I also find at times a slower version of a piece sounds much more pleasant than what's marked on the score. Maybe it's my subconscious eagerly directing me toward a slower and more manageable tempo, but I'd hate to think that my ears are failing me. smile
_________________________
Learning to play since June 2009.
My piano diary on You Tube: http://www.youtube.com/user/afpaSTU1096
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#1471115 - 07/09/10 11:59 AM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Ejay]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: Ejay
..although the jeely piece song is kinda full o self pity.




Ah, the good ol' jeely piece song. It's been too long. I wouldn't say self-pity. Just lots of humour. Probably is our very own blues.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1471181 - 07/09/10 01:11 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: keyboardklutz]
hawgdriver Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: keyboardklutz
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver

Sometimes your mind wanders. This is no great revelation. How can I concentrate and focus better?
By lifestyle I mean Mens sana in corpore sano (which is not just about fitness).


Thank you for clarifying. Not to be combative, but quoting Juvenal doesn't much improve our understanding of things that might improve focus and concentration during practice and performance.

So if I'm a balanced person I can concentrate? If I'm not ill, mentally or physically? I'm looking for the pragmatic angle here...cheers.

The way I see it, desire is the main lever of focus. If you want to play it well badly enough, then you will. Not that it's the only factor that determines quality of a practice, no sir, but the most important one.

Dr. Terry Orlick believes you can improve your ability to focus through training. One of his books, 'in pursuit of excellence' sits on my shelf and it has some interesting tips. Sorry, I don't have it in front of me so can't share any of those gems. A lot of it is mental preparation for important competitions or events (like a recital).

I like Orlick's concepts but they don't quite hit on the most important one, which for me is just that you have an incredible passion or desire or want--and this is the force that makes everything fall in place.

I don't mean to marginalize your comment KbK, but one could easily contrive outstanding performers who lack the proper 'sano' status, if you know what I mean.

EDIT: for those interested, here is an interesting article from Orlick's website on mental aspects of opera training.
http://www.zoneofexcellence.ca./free/excellence/10_Thinking_Sound.pdf

edit^2: The Hans Gertz piece is worth a read. It's singing, but a lot of it applies. I would like to quote several selections, but here are two I like:

Quote:
The student should think of him
or herself as a real singer, and not
a student. Do not practice, perform.


Quote:
The singer must learn to build up
his or her feelings of being a good
singer. The old saying, "Form follows
thought" is very true in this case. To
train feelings of happiness when singing,
the singer must love his or her own voice
and must love to sing. In daily exercises,
effort must be put into developing the
feeling of being a good singer. The student
must as soon as possible leave behind
feelings of being a student and start
to think, "I am a singer".


Edited by hawgdriver (07/09/10 01:37 PM)
_________________________
Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski

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#1471189 - 07/09/10 01:19 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: ten left thumbs]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
I have a question about bringing a piece up to tempo: I think it's generally agreed that a big part of the problem of playing rapid passages at tempo is training the brain to think the music faster. So, is it best to play at slower tempos until it's perfect before pushing for speed, or to push for speed in order to get the brain to think faster?

I don't think that there can be an either/or solution. No doubt it depends on the piece/passage in question.

I've tried a sort of compromise approach, by which I'd choose a tempo that was comfortable without being too slow, then alternate between pushing for speed and the confortable tempo. I'd always end practice with the slow tempo, also, so that comfortable, error-free version would be the one my brain would best recall.

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#1471197 - 07/09/10 01:31 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: moscheles001]
hawgdriver Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 637
Loc: Denver, CO
I don't know, but my intuition is that you need both. I think rapid playing with mistakes helps the brain more and slow playing without mistakes helps the body more. So I do both and hope that this targets each effectively.
_________________________
Only in men's imagination does every truth find an effective and undeniable existence. Imagination, not invention, is the supreme master of art as of life. -Józef Teodor Konrad Korzeniowski

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#1471201 - 07/09/10 01:39 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: moscheles001]
Ejay Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 216
Loc: U.K.
I prefer to start slower and build up to speed.
The reason for this is that sometimes if you start playing fast you can sort of bluff it, but if asked to play it slower, you make all sort of mistakes. While playing fast may develop muscle memory faster, it isn't always the most reliable.

I find if I build up to tempo, I am memorizing the patterns of written notes , so I can find the place in the music if I need to, as well as the muscle memory. I will usually work till I can play it faster than needed on final practice. I can then come back to it at the right tempo the next day.
_________________________
Music was my refuge. I could crawl into the space between the notes and curl my back to loneliness.
Maya Angelou


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#1471203 - 07/09/10 01:43 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: hawgdriver]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver
I don't know, but my intuition is that you need both. I think rapid playing with mistakes helps the brain more and slow playing without mistakes helps the body more. So I do both and hope that this targets each effectively.


I don't see any point in playing so fast you make mistakes. Best play slow, build up gradually. Most folks underestimate how long this takes.

If you need to help your brain, get a good recording of what you are playing and listen to it.

But playing too fast will simply teach your fingers to make mistakes, and teach your brain to accept them.
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#1471233 - 07/09/10 02:23 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: ten left thumbs]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
Originally Posted By: ten left thumbs
Originally Posted By: hawgdriver
I don't know, but my intuition is that you need both. I think rapid playing with mistakes helps the brain more and slow playing without mistakes helps the body more. So I do both and hope that this targets each effectively.


I don't see any point in playing so fast you make mistakes. Best play slow, build up gradually. Most folks underestimate how long this takes.

If you need to help your brain, get a good recording of what you are playing and listen to it.

But playing too fast will simply teach your fingers to make mistakes, and teach your brain to accept them.
Occasionally playing faster will show you where your mistakes are. If you always play something slow you may get it right everytime and not know which areas are really your weak spots.


Edited by Little_Blue_Engine (07/09/10 06:04 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#1471241 - 07/09/10 02:31 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: Little_Blue_Engine]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3160
One aspect of this is that playing something slow and playing it fast are not the same, i.e. fast is not simply slow done faster, just like running is not just fast walking. Even fast walking is different that just strolling along. Running is different in any number of ways, but is also the same in some ways (same legs, feet, basic muscles, etc).

I don't remember all the particulars, but this (when and how to bring in a faster tempo at practice, and pitfalls to avoid etc,) has been discussed before, I think either on this forum, or the Pianist's forum.

This is a good topic, a very important component to practicing successfully. Maybe someone else who knows more about this can chime in.
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#1471252 - 07/09/10 02:43 PM Re: Self-Teaching Support Thread [Re: rocket88]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
Yes, because it isn't until you get near the real tempo that you discover if your fingerings are efficient.

Chang and Lister-Sink both say to practice in small sections at tempo. I've found that easier said than done, though. Maybe it works with pianists who are further along with their technical development.

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