Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#1468452 - 07/05/10 03:00 AM Movable Do Piano Methods?
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
I've been talking to piano teachers around Australia about teaching their beginners, and most teachers here do use the American methods - Alfred, Hal Leonard, Piano Adventures, recently the Premier method from Alfred, less recently Bastien...

There have been many discussions in this forum where I've seen teachers talking about using Movable Do: are there Movable Do method books that any of you use? Or is your use of Movable Do something you 'add' to other materials you are using?
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
(ad) Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1468486 - 07/05/10 06:08 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5936
Loc: Down Under
I use movable do, but I don't know of any piano method book which uses it (I do know of a recorder method book that does, however!). I incorporate it into the other materials I use, including some of my own.

I came across one method book for young children which claims to use Kodaly principles and so I thought it might use movable do, but on looking at the website - Dogs and Birds - I find they use animal names for the notes, and the children sing these, which really makes it more of a fixed do method.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1468496 - 07/05/10 06:58 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Hmm, interesting. It just suddenly occurred to me today that I'd *never* seen a movable do piano method.....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1468498 - 07/05/10 07:13 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
I would quite like to use a fixed Do piano method. I experimented with a new beginner young child recently; teaching her fixed Do solfege. Trouble is I don't know it terribly well (never used it at all and had to look up the sounds and make a chart that I can see during lessons). i realised that I have to practise it myself until more natural, and also integrate it better with my usual methods. Maybe I'll just revert to ABC again.

I can't imagine using movable Do. I grew up with ABCD...

(Australian teacher of beginners)
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1468512 - 07/05/10 08:03 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Canonie]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Good point, Canonie, I can't imagine not calling A A either!! But even so, I'm amazed that so far no one knows of a movable do 'method'.....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1468517 - 07/05/10 08:22 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Back in ancient history when I was in elementary school, we had daily music class. We were taught do, re, mi, etc. relative to scale degrees of the major scale (no instruments, just singing).

Never heard of fixed do until recently.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

Top
#1468519 - 07/05/10 08:30 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Studio Joe]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Well I hope that i am able to teach students how to internalise the scale degrees in spite of not training them in movable do. Hmmm better remember to make sure that everyone does at least some transposing this term.

Hurray for Holidays; a good time for pondering and preparing (and practising!).
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1468525 - 07/05/10 08:57 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Canonie]
ToriAnais Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Australia
Forte has a fixed do method called Music Munchkins. Urrghh...

(And at this point I bite my tongue. Hard.)
_________________________
Piano teacher since August 2008.

Top
#1468527 - 07/05/10 09:18 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: ToriAnais]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Laughing at the hard tongue biting..... Fixed do doesn't interest me anyway.....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1468564 - 07/05/10 11:03 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13792
Loc: Iowa City, IA
The closest thing to a true moveable do method in the US is Music Moves for Piano by Marilyn Lowe:

http://www.musicmovesforpiano.com/

I think there was one under development in the UK at one point (someone was working on a Kodaly-based piano method as a dissertation project) but I don't know if it ever found a publisher.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

Top
#1468570 - 07/05/10 11:13 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Kreisler]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1415
Loc: under monsoon clouds
I don't know of such a method, but Bastien does teach transposition early (at least in the adult method), and makes it clear early that every major key has the same structure so that the student can move from key to key easily.

Elene
_________________________
Semi-Pro Musica

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://elenelistens.com






Top
#1468571 - 07/05/10 11:14 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Kreisler]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: California
I've never really understood why someone would prefer 'moveable Do' over 'fixed Do' when teaching note names. The notes on the staff have to have secure, permanent names that students will remember. When using letter names, you don't scramble the names to fit the key do you?

I would think 'moveable Do' could only be used in addition to a letter name musical language already used by a student.

For 'fixed Do' I only know of Yamaha and Harmony Road programs that use solfege as their musical language.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#1468601 - 07/05/10 12:26 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: dumdumdiddle
I've never really understood why someone would prefer 'moveable Do' over 'fixed Do' when teaching note names. The notes on the staff have to have secure, permanent names that students will remember. When using letter names, you don't scramble the names to fit the key do you?


It's not used to teach note names. It teaches sale degrees.

"Doe a deer, a female deer. re ,,,,,,
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

Top
#1468615 - 07/05/10 12:46 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Studio Joe]
dumdumdiddle Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 1265
Loc: California
Yes, so IN ADDITION to a set musical language.

'Fixed Do' for notereading and internalizing actual pitch.

'Moveable Do' for scale degrees/intervals.
_________________________
Music School Owner
Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher
Member of MTAC and Guild

Top
#1468630 - 07/05/10 01:25 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: dumdumdiddle]
MomOfBeginners Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 117
Loc: California, USA
My mom grew up in rural south China. In school, she was taught to sing in doh-re-mi. She could never remember the lyrics to songs. I grew up listening to her sing all the songs in doh-re-mi, even the songs that I brought home from school. It is now ingrained in me so much that when I listen to music in the major or minor diatonic scale, I cannot get away from matching the solfege syllables to the pitch.

If the song modulates, the whole scale is repositioned to a new doh. When we get to some jazz music, the tonic is identified, and the scale is adapted with the raised or lowered notes. Internally, that translated very well when memorizing and analyzing my piano pieces.

I grew up in a church where the entire hymnal is written out like:

Eb major
1 1 2 3 | 4 - - - etc.

and the entire congregation knows how to read music that way. It's not doh-re-mi, but it's still the concept of a symbol matching the degree of a scale. Notes lower than 1 has a dot at the bottom. Notes higher than 7 has a dot at the top. Eighth notes are underlined. Sixteenth notes are double-underlined.

I don't anything about solfege as a piano method - or specifically applied to piano. I also never had formal training in solfege. But once it got inside my system, it definitely helped with my piano and theory.
_________________________
Mom of Two Girls Who Used to Be Beginners

Top
#1468634 - 07/05/10 01:34 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2469
Loc: France
Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
I'm amazed that so far no one knows of a movable do 'method'.....


May I ask, what do you mean by a movable do piano method? I cannot grasp the idea at all.

Top
#1468765 - 07/05/10 05:01 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: landorrano]
Studio Joe Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/28/07
Posts: 1803
Loc: Decatur, Texas
Originally Posted By: landorrano

May I ask, what do you mean by a movable do piano method? I cannot grasp the idea at all.


Scale degrees instead of notes. Doe is always the tonic no matter what key the piece is in.
_________________________
Joe Whitehead ------ Texas Trax

Top
#1468788 - 07/05/10 05:43 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Studio Joe]
landorrano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 2469
Loc: France
I know what movable-do solfège is, but I had the impresion that Elissa means a piano method that uses movable do in some way.

Top
#1468829 - 07/05/10 07:03 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Canonie]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5936
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Canonie
I can't imagine using movable Do. I grew up with ABCD...
That's just when you can use movable do. Letter names for fixed pitch, movable do solfa for scale degrees. Goes well together because they are used in different contexts.
What doesn't work (or works less well) is to combine fixed and movable do - where the same terminology means two different things.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1468831 - 07/05/10 07:07 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: landorrano]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5936
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: landorrano
Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
I'm amazed that so far no one knows of a movable do 'method'.....
May I ask, what do you mean by a movable do piano method? I cannot grasp the idea at all.
I'm not answering for Elissa, but I understood her to mean a piano method book that (in addition to teaching letter names as the fixed pitches) teaches the concept of scale degrees and their relationship to each other by using movable do solfa (incorporating singing as well as playing).
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1468852 - 07/05/10 07:45 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
currawong's right: but more concretely, imagine a piano method like Piano Adventures or the Alfred Premier method, comprising Lessons Books, Theory Books, Technique, Solos, and so on.... which works with the premise that the relationship between notes (solfege) is the starting point. Does such a method exist? I think not, but I am turning to the wisdom of crowds here in the Piano World Teachers Forum.....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1468867 - 07/05/10 08:17 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: currawong]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Canonie
I can't imagine using movable Do. I grew up with ABCD...
That's just when you can use movable do. Letter names for fixed pitch, movable do solfa for scale degrees. Goes well together because they are used in different contexts.
What doesn't work (or works less well) is to combine fixed and movable do - where the same terminology means two different things.

Ah of course - you'd have ABCD note names, then do re mi scale degrees. At the moment I/students sing the numbers out loud ("seven" is annoyingly polysyllabic, "flat seveeeeen" even sillier). But I don't introduce this much or early. I think as a child I internalised scale degrees by singing and playing around with a bit of transposing (not taught in lessons). It's good to remind myself that aural skills will not always happen automatically for students.

MomofB - re number notation, is a minor third indicated with 3- or is there no indication of major or minor in the numbers?
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1468876 - 07/05/10 08:36 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Canonie]
Smallpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/14/10
Posts: 270
Loc: California
I like the idea of MomOfB.
I do not know any Movable Do Piano Method. If there is one, I would use ABC plus this Movable Do Method instead of Fix-Do.
_________________________
English is my 4th languages, please excuse my grammar. Thanks

Top
#1469144 - 07/06/10 09:47 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Canonie]
MomOfBeginners Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 117
Loc: California, USA
Minor keys I think were notated with the tonic as 6 with a dot at the bottom. If a note was raised, they'd use a sharp symbol # as in #4. If a note was lowered, they'd use the flat symbol as in b3.

Bear in mind, though, that this was more than 20 years ago, and I think the notation was made for easy typing on a primitive typewriter. In later editions, the music was written out on a staff, with the same notation numbers on top. Still later, the number notations were completely gone.

My point was more that a there were whole masses of people with little training in music (only in elementary school), unable to read the staff or note names, but who could understand degrees of a scale (most of them translating easily to doh-re-mi) and can sing in any key.



Edited by MomOfBeginners (07/06/10 09:48 AM)
_________________________
Mom of Two Girls Who Used to Be Beginners

Top
#1469470 - 07/06/10 07:53 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: MomOfBeginners]
findingnemo2010 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 1491
try berklee contemporary ear training for modern musicians or soemthin, they use movable do or any of their stuff i believe
_________________________
music to me is kind of like putting together pieces of a puzzle
i call it the paino because its where i put all my pain

Top
#1469479 - 07/06/10 08:08 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: findingnemo2010]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Joe84, this doesn't sound like a book designed to be used with beginners/6 year olds!! Or am I mistaken?
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1469491 - 07/06/10 08:45 PM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
dan.mc Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 18
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
I have never used movable do method books but there are two available in Australia that I know of:

"Piano Play" by John Colwill

and

"Piano for Children" by David Banney

Perhaps someone here has used them...
_________________________
www.danielmcfarlane.com

Top
#1469711 - 07/07/10 06:59 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: dan.mc]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5936
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: dan.mc
I have never used movable do method books but there are two available in Australia that I know of:
"Piano Play" by John Colwill
and
"Piano for Children" by David Banney...
Interesting - I'll keep my eye out for them.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1469721 - 07/07/10 07:34 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: dan.mc
I have never used movable do method books but there are two available in Australia that I know of:
"Piano Play" by John Colwill
and
"Piano for Children" by David Banney...
Interesting - I'll keep my eye out for them.
Well, I can't believe I never knew til now that John Colwill had written beginner piano books..... Goodness me!!! I've ordered them in.... Thanks so much for sharing this information!!
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1471492 - 07/10/10 12:17 AM Re: Movable Do Piano Methods? [Re: Elissa Milne]
jeffalthouse Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 1
Loc: Florida, USA
Recently I had a piano ped class while going for my Masters, the professor was French. He was of the European fixed "DO" system. In general he felt that who ever invented the mobile DO was an idiot.

Upon much thought, there is no advantage to a mobile DO over a fixed one....

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Kawai Grand Feel Let-off
by Beemer
10/02/14 10:57 AM
baldwin 2nd hand
by johan d
10/02/14 09:44 AM
a steinway rebuilt and a mason hamlin rebuilt
by koap
10/02/14 09:27 AM
Chopin tude No 12 in C minor, Op 10 'Revolutionary'
by Maximillyan
10/02/14 09:25 AM
Sustaining vs Dead On Unison
by Mark Cerisano, RPT
10/02/14 08:48 AM
Who's Online
129 registered (AndresD, ajames, accordeur, Alexander Borro, aesop, 37 invisible), 1569 Guests and 13 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76399 Members
42 Forums
157949 Topics
2319573 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission