Standard MIDI ports use two round 5 pin DIN plugs. This has been an industry standard for 20+ years. However computers don't have MIDI ports so we use a MIDI to USB interface so the piano can plug into ta USB port.

But now some pianos build this interface into the piano so all you see is a USB port on the piano. This is good if the ONLY thing you'd ever plug the piano into is a computer. USB will not work with other MIDI devices.

With standard 5-pin MIDI you can connect muliple keyboards, pedals, and tone generators together. But for most people the only thing they might use is the computer so USB works for them.

I think the px130 has USB while the PX330 has "real MIDI" as well. In either case the exact same data is send over the wire

Now that's interesting. I also tried the latest Pianoteq these last few days. I love the new K1 piano, but was left indifferent about the EPs. There didn't seem to be the range of dynamics that I expected, and I felt that both the Rhodes and Wurly were too "buzzy". I much prefer the modeling on my GEM, although the Wurly's not quite there on that, either. From what I've heard so far, the SV-1 has got the Wurly nailed, if you can live with velocity switched samples.

I'm so glad that I have the 330 with its old-school midi ports as well as USB. I get a lot of hum/buzzing when connecting to my laptop using USB. Is this a common phenomenon with USB ports, or is it the techno-failings of an old geezer?

"real MIDI" is very well designed. It uses "opto-isolation" which means the data coming out of the piano controls a very small light, that light passes though glass and then controls a photo-sensitive detector and this detector is what sends data down the cable. So the cable has a glass insulator between it and the piano. This is a nearly fool proof method to protect from certain common causes of hum and buzz.

The USB cable was not designed to interconnect audio devices. What you likely have is a kind of ground loop problem. You may be able to solve it by plugging everything into the same outlet strip. and I mean "everything" that has any kind of a connection to the PC. The root cause is likely a small current flowing in the ground shield of the USB cable. The other way to solve this would be to use a USB or Firewire audio interface with balanced outputs. [i][/i]

Thanks, ChrisA, that's useful info. I wonder if it's possible to buy a non-grounded USB cable.

It's kind of sad how many new audio issues are being caused by USB grounding problems.

For the record, the MIDI cable is directly driven by the source, and is only isolated at the receiving end via an LED / photo transistor (or photo diode) opto-isolator. This forms a current loop, and the insulator is optical plastic.

No. All the cables are grounded plug to plug. However I wonder if something like a USB hub would break the loop?

Not quite out in stores yet is "wireless usb" which replaces the cable with a wireless radio link up to about 3 meters. No idea of cost or schedule. But when this does hit the stores I'll be in line to get one.

Hi! I hope it's OK for me to comment here... I'll explain a bit. I've been playing for a year, but on my own and recently I bought my first (digital) piano; the Privia PX-120 and I really like it, it feels nice (although I have nothing to compare it to) and it also sounds good. I'm happy for the most part (there are some things that annoys me), but originally I wanted the newer model, the PX-130, but since it was almost impossible to find it in my country, after months of waiting I just bought this one.

But after almost two weeks with my piano, I found the Px-130! So since then I've been wondering if it's worth to sell the PX-120 and buy this one. What do you say? It's the new model very superior?

Question A: I know it has a tri-sensor and I've read it has a better feeling? Do the keys make noises after you release them (I figure it's a normal thing in digital pianos, but in the PX-120 that can be a bit annoying, so I want to know if the PX-130 makes the same noises)?

Question B: I also get a bit tired after hitting the same key several times in a row and I have to do that with 7 different keys (when I play a variation of the Canon in D, "Canon in C" arranged by Jason Behik). When I played that part on my keyboard, it wasn't that hard, on this piano it's just slower and I get a bit tired, but perhaps it's because of the weitghted keys I'm not used to? Or it has something to do with not having a tri-sensor?

Question C: Do you think it's worth it? I mean, sell my piano and buy this one.

I'm asking all of this because I can only buy this piano online (the same was with the one I have now), so I can't test it (I hate where I live :().

Anyway, sorry for the long post. And apologies for my english as well. I hope someone can help me.:)

P.S.: I have visited this forum for almost a year now, but just recently registered. I like this forum a lot.

Welcome to the PW Forum. You said you have been playing for a year, but did not say what kind of board you have been playing. If you have been playing an unweighted non hammer action board, that is likely the reason your fingers are getting tired. They are not used to playing weighted keys. This should cure itself in time as your fingers will build up strength. As you have found out, buying a DP without first trying it can have unpleasant surprises.

The PX-120 is slightly older than the 130. The major difference is the piano sample was improved from 3 layer to 4 in the PX-130. The action also was improved with the addition of a third sensor to aid repeating notes faster, and it appears that Casio improved the responsiveness. They took off the onboard rhythms that the PX-120 had. The 130 has just the metronome. They added a strip of felt under the overhang that covers the back of the keys to help quiet clacking. It seems the action is not as noisy. I'm not sure how to answer question C. Without being able to try it before buying, you would have to ship it back if it turned out you didn't like it.

Thank you, galaxy4t. I really appreciate your answer!

To answer your question, I had a Casio CTK-4000 keyboard, so no weighted keys. It is difficult to buy a piano without trying it first, but it's my only choice, unfortunately. But before I bought the PX-120 I read a lot of reviews, some bad, some good, so I was aware of many things. And for the most part I'm happy with this, it's just that I really wanted the PX-130 because I read it was better, but now I don't know...

Ship it back if I don't like it, it's also not a choice, I can't do that here. I really don't know what to do... As for the rhythms, I don't use it, so I wouldn't miss it, hehe.

I guess I'll keep reading and see if I get the chance to find it in a store near my city (this would be great).

Thanks again!

Skylyn
Have you considered hooking your PX-120 up to a computer and using a plug in like Pianoteq? Many people think software pianos are the way to go because there is more dynamic range. Whereas a DP only has a 3 layer or 4 layer sample so it's harder to hear the nuances of the hammers hitting strings. If you were to go this way, it wouldn't matter which piano you had as the sound would be generated by the computer and you would be using the piano keyboard just to play the notes.

Agreed, I just discovered Pianoteq with my px-130 and will probably never use the built in privia sounds again if I can help it!

Yeah, that seems like a good idea. I've never used that software, but I might try it.

I think for now I'll keep this piano.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Assuming the Wurly on the PX-130 is the same as the '330, I could only detect 2 layers (with a very obvious switch point, without the fancy morphing of the acoustic pianos) Same goes for the Rhodes preset. The loop point occurs very early too.

So I was very wrong - it's not nearly as good as I thought, unfortunately. I realise that it would be naive to expect excellent electric pianos in these low cost keyboards though.

Greg.

Are there any 3rd party 3-pedal units that are compatible with the PX-330? The reason for asking is that the Casio one is meant to be used with the optional stand, which I would not necessarily want.

Thanks,
Greg.

I've bought a PX-330!

It looks like I was wrong about the action not repeating very well. My unit IS repeating well! It's possible that I just wasn't relaxed enough in the stores when I tried them. I was using the vigorous two handed method, and maybe I was just too worried about attracting attention from the staff. Anyway, I bought it thinking that I would just put up with it, but I am pleasantly surprised at how well it's repeating.

I bought this mainly for practising away from home and just for having fun. I wanted portability, so I could quickly and easily chuck it in the car. I think it will be wonderful for this, and I tell you what - my hands feel TOTALLY comfortable playing this after my wooden action Kawai MP9000. (which I still have) I can't even say which I prefer - they're just different. (The Casio may be a bit lighter)

Note that I speak mainly as a "piano geek", not as a proper pianist. ;^)

Greg.

Happy Casio Customers;

Calling Happy Casio Customers to Post here with their experiences on their PX series DP's.

If you've had problems, mention them and also inform if they were resolved by the company or not.

More than 65,000 views / hits for this thread... I guess a lot of people are interested to know if these DP's are good as they offer a lot of value.

Greg,

Could you comment on the quality of the keys.

Also the key action, which you mention as being lighter, can be adjusted to suit your style (light / normal / heavy) as shown on page 42,43 of the manual.

Brian

The response of the keys can be adjusted; the feel, or "weight" can not. It's a mind game!

I have the PX-330. I'm sorry I know absolutely NOTHING about digital pianos, but we had an upright piano when I was a child. Since I am now just at the very beginning of learning to play, please take my experience for what it's worth However I will say why I decided on this model in case others find themselves in a similar position. I was actually looking at DPs at the next price point down and researched them well, but wasn't even aware of the PX-130/330 however the action of the keys on the PX reminded me a lot of the real piano I'd grown up with. Sorry if this is not technically correct, but compared to the cheaper models, I could touch the keys VERY softly and not return the key to its fully "home" position, just back up a fraction, and it seemed to be exactly like our old piano. You know when you go softer and slower until finally the hammer doesn't actually touch the strings? It has a distinct tone (well to my ears anyway), and definitely sounds different to a normal hammer sound that's just softer. I don't know if that makes sense, but I thought the PX did a pretty good job of replicating that. Spookily good in fact, especially considering I still considered the PX-330 "cheap".

The other thing that attracted me was the USB so I can simply plug it straight into the Mac that sits next to it. My reasoning was that maybe I could find some software that takes advantage of the MIDI facilities on a DP to help teach me piano. I don't know if that's correct, but that was the thinking.

The PX is sold in Australia with a 5 year warranty. I figured in 5 years time I will either be wanting to upgrade, or it will be sitting in a corner on its side gathering dust with me wondering why I ever bought it. Hopefully the former

Finally, I considered the action of the keyboard as like the foundation of a house. I could always upgrade the sounds etc by using the USB/MIDI outputs, but if I bought a keyboard with a less realistic action I was always going to be stuck with the. As they say, you can't polish a turd. I'm sure there are better/more realistic actions around, but I don't think so at this price range.

Anyway, that was my rationale. It may be completely false for all I know. On the negative side. Well, at the end of the day they can stick "Privia" on it all they like, but let's face it, it's a Casio; a company who, in my mind, makes crap watches. The PX-330 is definitely built to a price. The sustain pedal for example is just miserable. So far the only fault I've had with it is when I turn it on it doesn't come on properly, a bit like a computer hanging on boot-up. I simply cycle the power switch and away it goes. You can set the PX-330 to remember your settings when you turn it off (that function is OFF by default), but for some reason the reverb comes on regardless. To me the reverb just sounds terrible so i turn it off each time. An annoyance. The pianos sound pretty good to my ears, but many of the rest of the voices are just laughably bad in my book. Occasionally I find a good one, but I bought it to begin to learn to play the piano so it makes no difference to me.

My 2 cents worth of newbieisms (well 1.5 if you like)

Pete

Brian,
Assessing the feel of the action is very tricky I think. As others have said elsewhere, even changing the sound can change the subjective feel of the keys. All I can say, so far, is that the PX-330 action feels very nice. I don't have any quality problems at all, either. (fingers crossed!) I didn't know it was possible for such a lightweight instrument to feel as "solid" as this.

I'm no glissando freak, but it seems easier to do glissandos on the Casio than my old Kawai. I saw how easy that German chap ("MusikSchmidt") made glissandos look on this new Casio action, so I was curious to see whether it was mainly his skill or something to do with the action. I think the action really does make a difference. (No idea how it compares to a real piano in this regard)

Greg.

Greg,

Thanx. A very frank review. I'll take it as one coming from a fairly satisfied customer. The problems you mention, namely the pedal quality, has been mentioned earlier and it was suggested to go in for the 3 pedal unit and stand if possible.

I think Yamaha needs to wake up to this and give the DGX 630/640 their GH or GH3 keys.

Brian

Brian,
I think you may be confusing me with Pete - Pete has given the thorough review, and mentioned the pedals.

Cheers,
Greg.

Not at all Greg. I did mean that someone else has mentioned about the pedals (not you).

Yeah sorry I hadn't intended that to be a "review" as such, as I don't feel I have the expertise to do that. It was more a case of vocalising my thought process and how the PX-330 satisfied what I was thinking. I actually did get a little conned when I bought this DP. The store was a grubby little place that didn't even have the PX-330 on display, just the PX-130. I was about to buy the CDP-200 when I saw the PX-130 and asked about it. One touch of the keys convinced me this was a much better way to go. The salesman assured me that the PX-330 did everything the CDP-200 did, but more. In fact that's not true at all, the two are completely different. I bought the PX-330 sight unseen but I was very close to taking it back when I realised the two DPs weren't essentially the same, but as it's turned out it's been a blessing in disguise. Many of the "features" I was looking at were learning type functions I would very rapidly grow out of. On the other hand yes I am quite happy with this purchase so far and feel it should be a while until I grow out of it.

Pete

No. I have now four of them (good ones and bad ones) and also my USB soundcard disassembled and examined them ;-)
Even active hubs are designed this way that they can also work in passive mode and have a direct ground and power connection. The bvetter ones have a diode and self recovering fuse in the line.
However, inside is quite often a 10µF capacitor that can help to filter the noise.

Mostly the noise is high frequency common mode noise. So it might not be absolutely necessary to have insulation. A current compensated filter coil in the ground and +5V line + 2 x 10µF capacitors (double PI-Filter) can probably solve the problem. The data lines dont have much current and dont contribute to the noise much. quite often they are insulated with capacitors.

I am goingt to design and test such a circuit and when it works I sell them for 50$ on Ebay, making a small bussiness until one of the big players takes over and steals the idea and sells them for 79.99$ .... ;-)

Possibly there is a cheaper solution: A 100µF capacitor soldered into the soundcard could reduce the alternating current of the ground line and reduce ground noise this way.

Peter

I guess I'll chime in here regarding the PX 330. I've had mine for several months now.
I guess I was one of the lucky ones since mine arrived (from Kraft Music) in perfect shape and remains that way.
As for clunking or clacking, I guess the keys clunk when I've got the headphones on and others can hear it, but since I can't, it doesn't bother me a bit.
I had a YPG 635 for a few months and frankly haven't noticed any difference with the weight or response of the keys.
I liked the tones and the rhythms of the Yamaha a little better than the Casio but the speakers were harsher, IMO, than the Casio. That being said, I've hooked up a set of the Logitech 2.1 speakers to the Casio. Granted, they are really meant to be computer speakers but they make a huge difference and probably would have done the same with the Yammie.
As I mentioned in a previous thread somewhere, the Yammie did not sustain in the left hand while in split mode and that was a huge deal for me, so I bought the Casio which does.
I'm one of those rare ones, I guess, that really likes all the "bells and whistles". I use the built in rhythms and the different sounds and layer, split, tweak, and anything else I can think of, so the PX 330 fits the bill in that respect. Also, I've got a few synth modules hooked up as well that I can play alone or layer with the keyboard--great fun!
I ran Pianoteq for a while until my computer crashed last week and I lost the registration number to reload. Liked that too.
Every so often I go to local stores and try out all the keyboards I can--saw an FP4 that I really liked--but really I can't justify spending an extra thousand since I'm more of a hacker than a player.
I toyed with the idea of hooking up a Roland KC350 amp but I'm in a quite small apartment and I think it'd blow me out of the place. My neighbors are extremely tolerant of me, though, so I'm still debating.
So in conclusion, and sorry this is so long, I'd have to say I'm very satisfied with the PX330 and will probably hang on to it for a while (but I reserve the right to keep looking for the next one!)

I've posted elsewhere on these forums about the PX330.

Bottom line it's a great value DP at its price point.

I also have a Kawai CN33, more than twice the price, as a comparison. The Casio keys are lighter, and looser, but the touch and playability is fine. I have three pairs of clacking keys that developed a few months after I got the PX330, but my warranty is 3 years, and it doesn't interfere with playing. The piano sounds are fine through headphones and also an external audio system, but not so good using the internal speakers on, say, two-thirds volume or more.

It's a fun DP to play around with, although many of the other voices as mentioned by others are not so good. There's a whole bunch of unusual ethnic instrumental sounds too if you want to explore non-western music.

As a practice DP, portable enough for lugging around, it's probably unbeatable at the price.

To repeat myself it's great value at its price point.

Can anyone elaborate on what is meant by "clacking keys" or similar descriptions? I haven't noticed anything like that but would like to keep an eye out for signs of it.

While not the same thing, I've heard people talk about the noisy keys in some DPs. I've noticed that on the Yamaha played by Bill Hilton here http://www.bluespiano.tv/ Maybe it's just the way he's playing it, maybe Bill has worn out his keyboard but I certainly noticed it. The Casio most certainly doesn't make this same clicking noise. Being a mechanical movement there is, of course, some noise, but I would think if you could silence the strings on a real piano, different pianos would also make some noise to a greater or lesser extent. As best I recall our poor old girl did anyway. Casio have a layer of felt that I believe they try to convince customers is there to prevent this type of noise. I think that's more a product of the marketing department than the engineering section, as best I can see the keys don't actually come up that high! Nevertheless they seem to make no more noise than I would expect to hear.

Pete

> 66000 views and counting.

Speakers could be better, keys need to be a better quality. Overall satisfied.

Casio, are you listening. Mike Martin are u seeing these posts??

This is just to make a good value DP even better.

I don't think people will mind paying a little more to get a speaker box and consistent quality in the keys.