Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#1477559 - 07/20/10 01:31 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: Elissa Milne]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
5-10 minutes of painfull sight reading a day is taking its toll... At this rate she'll refuse to touch a piano at all before this winter is over.

What to do? Persist and kill her natural love for the piano, or ignore her inability to read music and wait for her to reach the inevitable limit of her memory-based playing?....

If only there were a way to make sight-reading fun. She LOVES learning new pieces - but the dots on the page seem to be a hinderance to that process not a help.

Teacher still remains completely unphased by her inability read. He reckons for a 6yr old shes pretty good...Having said that he also openly admits he's never seen a 6yr old be able to play like she can, and his own sight reading is terrible (when he wanted to demonstrate how useful sight-reading was he got me to play something suggesting that his reading wasnt nearly as god as mine).


Has this topic derailed sufficiently that it justifies a new one? Its seems to have moved way beyond discussing anything to do with AMEB requirements!
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

Top
(ad) My Music Staff
Check out the new way to manage your music studio
#1477569 - 07/20/10 02:14 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
5-10 minutes of painfull sight reading a day is taking its toll... At this rate she'll refuse to touch a piano at all before this winter is over.
Just to pick up on one little point - if the sight reading is "painful" I'd say the pieces you're choosing for her to read are too difficult. Start with something she can read easily!
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

Top
#1477582 - 07/20/10 02:35 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
+1
And further - the suggestion was the absolute reverse of spending 5-10 minutes a day doing 'sightreading'!!!! That would kill anybody's enthusiasm!!!

The idea is that you LEARN (not sight read) a new piece every single week. So you find the level at which your daughter can manage a new piece every week. And then it all flows - and it's FUN!!! The fun lies in having a piece of music under your fingers and in your ear, not in plodding through new and unfamiliar notation every day.

And there's no reason why she shouldn't hear the pieces she is learning prior to working from notation.
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1477683 - 07/20/10 08:40 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
... I put it in front of daughter yesterday and asked her to sight read the first piece (no assistance from me). After 5 slightly painful minutes she was just about ok with the first couple of lines. ...

It's funny, I remember this from a few weeks ago, and at the time I thought about replying, then decided that we had drowned you in enough advice! It was the word "painful" that worried me, but she worked it out without help - so that's pretty good!

I would emphasise again awakening her to the pleasures and excitement of the written score - that's quite a different thing than practising sight reading in the way it is required for ameb exams. There are many ways to involve a child in written notation, my previous post describes a possible approach but it is by no means the only one I'd use, even for the one child. It's hard to recommend specific activities from a distance... but I can if interested (or youre welcome to PM).

SR technique can be worked on specifically later once she is a better at using, seeing, hearing and writing notation a bit better. Yes and learning lots and lots of pieces does help with this (as others have recommended).

How about a game where the child reads music without having to play a note? laugh It's Musical Chairs with a twist. YOu play a piece... suddenly stop in the middle, and then she has to point out the last note you played. Keep points score (you get the point if she is wrong). Begin with easy music, stopping at obvious points... then gradually make it harder. I haven't met anyone who doesn't enjoy this. Enjoy.
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1477686 - 07/20/10 08:46 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 2380
Loc: Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
5-10 minutes of painfull sight reading a day is taking its toll... At this rate she'll refuse to touch a piano at all before this winter is over.


I'm wondering about he book you said she was using for sight reading (classics to modern 1) - are you sure that is easy enough for her sight reading level? It would certainly frustrate me immensely if it was too difficult for my current reading level?
_________________________
  • Liszt - Liebesträume No. 3, S541
  • Scarlatti - Sonata in D minor, K. 213

Kawai K3

Top
#1477842 - 07/20/10 12:46 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
AZNpiano Online   sleepy
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5462
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: DadAgain
5-10 minutes of painfull sight reading a day is taking its toll... At this rate she'll refuse to touch a piano at all before this winter is over.

What to do?

Maybe get her some sight-reading series like the Bastiens' "A Line a Day" or the Marlais/Olson "Sight Reading & Rhythm Every Day." If you are having her sight read real music, that could be too difficult.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

Top
#1477973 - 07/20/10 04:33 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: AZNpiano]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
But seriously, don't worry about the sight reading. The teacher is right to be unconcerned about this. No one gets a musical education from practicing sight reading exercises.
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1478056 - 07/20/10 06:51 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: Elissa Milne]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
Canonie - dont worry aout drowning me in advice, I'm happy to have a mountain of it thrown my way so that *some* of it might stick (I'm pretty thick skinned so can take any abuse or criticism anyone cares to point in my direction) - Any new previously uncnsidered ideas are welcome, even if I end up considering them as not quite right for this specific circumstance.

I recognise that everyone here is making good and constructive suggestions (thank you) - but ultimately you're basing that on what limited information I can give you about my daughters abilities, moods and desires, so not all suggestions will suit us.

As far as the sight reading is going - there may have been a corner turned last night. I think daughter had a lightbulb moment and a little 'determined attitude' (as oposed to the previously observed 'defeatist attitude') surfaced. Shes still reading VERY slowly (think crotchet=10bpm) - but the challenge seems to be getting easier and she's 'up for it'. It might still be too dificult for her, but I'm limited in material of lesser complexity to give her.

Quote:
How about a game where the child reads music without having to play a note? It's Musical Chairs with a twist. You play a piece... suddenly stop in the middle, and then she has to point out the last note you played.

We've done this and she's amazingly good at it - she can follow Chopin Nocturnes, Debussy Preludes and basically anything that I'm capable of playing these days! I've yet to try putting her in front of a full orchestral score to see if she can follow that, but clearly that part of her 'reading brain' is perfectly in order (freakishly so - perhaps?).

I guess its this disparity in abilities that confuses me - she can play well, she can follow very well, she has a musical ear and memory as good as anyone I've ever met - but yet translating from dots-keys is tricky.

Quote:
there's no reason why she shouldn't hear the pieces she is learning prior to working from notation.

If she hears it first she WONT use the notation - she'll guess what to play (quite accurately) and self-correct (very quickly) - by the time she's on a second playthrough its memorised and music is used only as a guide to overall structure of a piece not as an indicator of specific notes. I've tried deliberately NOT playing pieces to her so that theres a slightly longer period of her looking at the dots - but even then printed music is soon relegated once she's worked out how the piece 'goes'.

Interestingly its as if her brain works like this:
DOTS->EAR->FINGERS

whereas its more common for us (as beginners at least) to be:
DOTS->FINGERS->EAR






Edited by DadAgain (07/20/10 07:17 PM)
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

Top
#1478090 - 07/20/10 08:06 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Quote:
We've done this and she's amazingly good at it - she can follow Chopin Nocturnes, Debussy Preludes and basically anything that I'm capable of playing these days! I've yet to try putting her in front of a full orchestral score to see if she can follow that, but clearly that part of her 'reading brain' is perfectly in order (freakishly so - perhaps?).

yes that's freakishly good!
One way to make SR much easier is to read one hand each, duet style - has this been suggested/tried?. It keeps both parties moving and is social. Style as "games" rather than "education" if that helps.

"Interestingly its as if her brain works like this:
DOTS->EAR->FINGERS".
Hey this is a good thing and it's how I train my students. I believe it helps with musical playing; student audiates the score in an ideal sort of way, then copies these sound shapes with piano. Don't be sad about this!!! And I really don't like the sort of beginner playing that goes dots->fingers eek

Another thing I've found sooo helpful is to bring their rhythm reading ahead of what they play at piano. My best way to do this is to step/dance the pulse with the legs and at the same time sing the rhythm. You can sing it all on da da de Daaaah as you feel it, while others (including me) use some sort of rhythmic solfege. Get good at the legs first, lots of fun and laughs and variations possible. If she is reading very very slowly in your opinion, it could be that this is helpful in driving the music forward. This is not just a game. If I couldn't do this I would probably stop teaching! It is fundamental to the kind of playing I wish to draw out from students.

And again, like Elissa, I wouldn't push SR too hard where she is not keen, but think of ways to connect her with notation. It sounds like she is going really really well in the areas that matter, and on what we know I would thoroughly enjoy working with a girl like this. Love smart kids. So enjoy your journey together, she is lucky to have you smile
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

Top
#1478279 - 07/21/10 02:51 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: Canonie]
ToriAnais Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/24/08
Posts: 244
Loc: Australia
Even though everyone is saying not to worry about sightreading, I'll give you a few ideas that you can spend 30 seconds a day on that I find really help:

Note flashcards, introduced very, very slowly. I introduce them 3 at a time and don't add any more until the current cards are down pat, and 3 is a doable, unscary task.

Interval flashcards. You can make these yourself, and avoid using a clef so the concentration is purely on being able to recognise 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths etc and what they look like on the piano. I have a 5 year old who can sightread a whole level one (second lesson book) piano adventures piece through, both hands doing different things, and it sounds near polished on the first playthrough, even though the only note he can name instantly is middle C, because he has such good recognition of intervals. I can't emphasise enough how much interval recognition helps with sightreading.

Third idea is to check out the popular repertoire books of the Piano Adventures series. From what you've said she does a lot of classical at the moment, which is GREAT, but she might enjoy a bit of variety, and playing tunes she's familiar with or that are more modern might add a sweetener to sightreading (or you could just do them together, rote learning them for fun!). They're about $8 australian on sheetmusicplus.com plus postage.
_________________________
Piano teacher since August 2008.

Top
#1563235 - 11/23/10 11:29 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
DadAgain Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/09/09
Posts: 365
Loc: Brisbane, QLD
FYI - In case anyone was interested in a follow up post: Grade 3 Piano was sat last week and despite nervousness about sight reading, results were in today:

"A"

She's justifiably proud. smile
_________________________
Parent....
Orchestral Viola player (stictly amateur)....
Hack Pianist.... (faded skills from glory days 20 yrs ago)
Vague Guitar & Bass player.... (former minor income stream 15 yrs ago)
Former conductor... (been a long time since I was set loose with a magic wand!)

Top
#1563441 - 11/24/10 11:08 AM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Congratulations!!!! Lovely news!
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

Top
#1566432 - 11/29/10 03:39 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Tubbie0075 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 544
4 pieces in 6 months at Grade 2 is a too little in my opinion. I don't blame your daughter for being bored. Concerning extra pieces, I suggest that if there's too much waiting between now and exam that she start preparing grade 3 pieces if she is ready. If she shows competent for grade 3 exam then, she mind as well skip grade 2. If not, she certainly can use her grade 3 pieces as the extras for her grade 2 exam.

When i took my grade 7 violin exam, I played a grade 8 exam piece (and another grade 7 piece) as extras. For grade 8 and above, no extra pieces are required.

Exams to me is a mean of ensuring students progress in their learning, rather than a goal. If I am progressing well and learning the fundemental technical works for a grade, why bother with exam at my current grade? With violin, I only took the exams for grade 5, 7 and 8, but I took the time to ensure I learn the pieces and technical works of the grades I skipped (I even took 2 years to prepare for grade 8). With the piano now, I'm not even going to bother with grade 1 to 7.

Another example is my violin teacher. She was preparing for grade 8 and AMUS at the same time because her technical and musical competencies have excceed grade 8. Back then, a B at grade 8 was a prerequisite for AMUS. She passed both grade 8 and AMUS with an A with only 3 months between the exams.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that although the exam periods are strict and limited, it doesn't mean you have to. Good luck!

Top
#1566436 - 11/29/10 03:42 PM Re: AMEB Exams - too many pieces? and admin too slow? [Re: DadAgain]
Tubbie0075 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/17/10
Posts: 544
Oh, just read your latest post. Congratulations :-)

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Ken Knapp 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Knabe Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
Who's Online
81 registered (Allard, AZNpiano, AZ_Astro, 22 invisible), 1069 Guests and 23 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76042 Members
42 Forums
157227 Topics
2309233 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
"railroad track" symbol in Debussy
by Eric NYC
09/02/14 02:52 AM
P155 or FA-08
by Yussnan84
09/02/14 01:59 AM
Blac
by Aviram
09/01/14 11:56 PM
Blackbird - Piano Cover - The Beatles
by Aviram
09/01/14 11:49 PM
Kawai CA95 Recordings
by wolferblade
09/01/14 11:32 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission