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#1475518 - 07/16/10 12:13 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: Dave Ferris]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
I don't think any of my teachers actually make any money from their CD sales, i wouldn't be surprised if they were breaking even or even losing money on them. I guess I would rather have them spend that money to see me play live or take lessons rather than listening to recordings at home. What bothers me more is the fact that there really aren't that many smaller venues out there where you can make a living playing 4-5 nights of week, which is what my teachers did back then.


I guess it's even tougher for modern jazz.. most people wouldn't even listen to it even if it's for free smile

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#1475527 - 07/16/10 12:26 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: etcetra]
charleslang Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
Originally Posted By: etcetra
What bothers me more is the fact that there really aren't that many smaller venues out there where you can make a living playing 4-5 nights of week, which is what my teachers did back then.

I guess it's even tougher for modern jazz.. most people wouldn't even listen to it even if it's for free smile


True but the situation is different in Europe from the US. In Berlin which has about 3m people there are more than five places with nightly live jazz with modern jazz in there.

In Sacramento with over 2m people there are zero.
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1475615 - 07/16/10 02:53 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: davefrank]
charleslang Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
Originally Posted By: davefrank
the are huge vats of cough drops outside every entrance when he plays Carnegie Hall - ricolas.

DF


After thinking about this a while, I just can't believe the lack of cough drops in San Francisco was an accident. It was managed by SFJazz, and Jarrett's antics are so well known that an organization with 'jazz' in its name would have to be in a cave not to know about them, and not to consider cough drops. Cough drops are available not only at Jarrett concerts; it's not a very unusual measure at other concerts.

I wonder whether they wanted to make a statement by not playing the 'diva' game. It would be in the character of San Francisco to do this.

One comment on the previously linked article sums up best the exceptional quality of this concert:

"[B]ecause of Jarrett's increasingly bizarre rants (mostly focused on audience coughing) there was a feeling of unease in the audience that put a damper on the entire evening. I have seen Keith many times, including 4 solo shows, but this was by far the most aberrant display in my concert going history. He was in a nutshell, completely off the hook. I understand and appreciate the man's singular artistry, but he also was responsible for bringing the negative vibe into play."

I wonder whether he came in already with a bad mood - who knows, maybe something about the concert arrangements even bothered him before it even began? Speculation, of course.

Maybe they were even trying to re-create the Koeln concert. Jarrett said in an interview that he was in awful shape and unhappy with the arrangements when that concert began! If so, it clearly didn't work.

One last thing I noticed, was that Jarrett said onstage that he hardly practices before these concerts. That was especially disappointing and seemed to me a gratuitous admission.
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1475626 - 07/16/10 03:18 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: charleslang]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: charleslang


One last thing I noticed, was that Jarrett said onstage that he hardly practices before these concerts. That was especially disappointing and seemed to me a gratuitous admission.



What can can you practice when you do a concert of free improvisation?
I don't think it is a 'gratuitous admission' by any stretch, he doesn't not practice because he is lazy you know. Rather because he believes that that is the best way to do a good gig.
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#1475634 - 07/16/10 03:36 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: beeboss]
charleslang Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: charleslang


One last thing I noticed, was that Jarrett said onstage that he hardly practices before these concerts. That was especially disappointing and seemed to me a gratuitous admission.



What can can you practice when you do a concert of free improvisation?
I don't think it is a 'gratuitous admission' by any stretch, he doesn't not practice because he is lazy you know. Rather because he believes that that is the best way to do a good gig.


I should have said that he also said this in a certain way (including the exact context, which I admit I can't remember) that communicated that he didn't care about the concerts.

I doubt many would say free improvisation is not improved by practice. Mine is, without a doubt, anyway, while at the same time, I'm sure that at a certain level you can cut back a little. But Jarrett also uses portions from or at least references to other music in his improvisations, like from Bartok in one recording. When I listened to his improvised stuff from the '90s, I was amazed that it was more technically demanding than what he played for us in San Francisco.

He supposedly also suffers from chronic fatigue? Someone wrote that. That would be an explanation for lacking preparation.

Finally, one or two riffs we heard were simply rehashed from earlier stuff of his, and I recognized them from records. Preparation would presumably widen the tools available to him for improvisation.

I guess they'll say I should be happy to see a legend perform before he's dead. And maybe I am. But it doesn't make the concert good.
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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#1475648 - 07/16/10 03:53 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: charleslang]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1655
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: charleslang
Originally Posted By: etcetra
What bothers me more is the fact that there really aren't that many smaller venues out there where you can make a living playing 4-5 nights of week, which is what my teachers did back then.

I guess it's even tougher for modern jazz.. most people wouldn't even listen to it even if it's for free smile


True but the situation is different in Europe from the US. In Berlin which has about 3m people there are more than five places with nightly live jazz with modern jazz in there.

In Sacramento with over 2m people there are zero.



You don't have to look as far as Europe. Toronto has close to 10 clubs featuring jazz nightly. And then there's New York. I've played quite a bit in Europe (just got back from playing the North Sea Jazz fest in Rotterdam and it was amazing!) and there does seem to be more enthusiasm for jazz (even though their clubs are dropping like flies too, like in North America)
but the big difference I've noticed is that there is a MUCH higher caliber of jazz musician in North America then in Europe (my opinion of course, but I've heard this opinion from many others too). The best European jazz musicians are North American ex-patriots (with a small few exceptions).
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#1475731 - 07/16/10 06:34 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: AJF]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: AJF


but the big difference I've noticed is that there is a MUCH higher caliber of jazz musician in North America then in Europe (my opinion of course, but I've heard this opinion from many others too). The best European jazz musicians are North American ex-patriots (with a small few exceptions).


Hmm, interesting, I never knew that. I thought there was an explosion of good players especially from the Nordic countries. There was a write-up in the Vancouver jazz festival about the influx of European players.

I saw Tomasz Stanko and Tord Gustavsen live. And I can list a few great players off the top of my head, Bobo Stenson, E.S.T.

Perhaps overall the structure for learning jazz here is greater. You've got Berklee and a few colleges here in Canada which have specialized jazz programs.

I wonder how it's like in Europe.

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#1475917 - 07/17/10 01:43 AM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
Well, most good players here are either from the US or spent some time studying in US too.

The teachers I was talking about are all from LA area. I think someone has said this before in the forum but you can't live and play jazz as if things were still like the 50's. Yes there are a lot of places to play in NY but there are tons of really good musicians who wait tables on the side to make ends meet too. There are places to play in LA to but most of them don't really pay well either. I think that's why a lot of good players are moving to places like China right now.

I really don't want to say anything definitive about caliber of European musicians until I go there and see it for myself..but I can say the same thing about musicians in Japan. People over there play really well, but they didn't really impress me like some of the guys I've heard in US. I've heard couple of "young lions" who are considered to be "genius" in japan but they really aren't in the same league of talent as someone like Aaron Parks or Chase Baird. When I was LA i felt like there were great players everywhere, and it didn't really feel that way about the scene japan even though they had a very big scene over there..

But then again,there are so many great players out there that nobody really knows about. We had discussion about Thomas Ruckert's version of "Like someone in love" earlier. He plays incredibly well and I think he lives in Germany.

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#1475975 - 07/17/10 06:06 AM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: etcetra]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: etcetra

I really don't want to say anything definitive about caliber of European musicians until I go there and see it for myself..



You don't have to come to Europe to check out John Taylor, Bobo Stenson, Martial Solal, Django Bates, Stefano Bollani, Enrico Pieranunzi, Michel Petrucciani, Esbjorn Svensson etc.

And there are some really frightening young players coming up at the moment.

Of course in general the standard is probably better in the states, the standard of baseball players is better as well for the same reasons.
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#1475996 - 07/17/10 08:23 AM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: beeboss]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
beeboss,

Yea, well, if you are going to use sports as example, you see how many of the best players in MLB and NBA are not from US.. I do agree that NY and N. America probably have higher concentration of amazing players, but I don't think they "dominate" like they used to. Baptiste Trotignon, Bojan Z, Tony Tixier, Marcin Wasilewski are all amazing players. But I admit don't really enjoy listening to top Japanese players.. I don't even like Hiromi or Makoto Ozone, I find the other players I mentioned above much more interesting musically.. but that's just my opinon. I think Kei Akagi is one of the few japanese player I actually enjoy listening to.


It reminds me, one of my teacher used to be really proud of the fact that he was from NY, and he talked about how the 1st trumpet in LA won't even make 3rd trumpet on NY big bands. He's been in LA for like 5 years now and his opinion changed quite a bit. He realized just how good the players were after he got to know the scene a little better.

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#1476004 - 07/17/10 09:08 AM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: etcetra]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Etcetra,

I guess I don't think that nationality is really important. Great musicians can come from anywhere. Why should it matter if Tigran Hamasyan is from Europe or Kenny Wheeler is originally from Canada?

I am with you on Hiromi, her music doesn't do it for me. I do like Masabumi Kikuchi though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88WQjom_jFU&feature=related

and thanks for putting me onto Kei Akagi, from the few clips I heard he sounds like an interesting player.
_________________________
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#1476027 - 07/17/10 10:32 AM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: beeboss]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
Esbjörn Svensson actually died last year in a tragic scuba diving accident in Stockholm. A great loss to the jazz world frown
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#1476078 - 07/17/10 12:09 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
etcetra Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 1446
beeboss

Kei Akagi used to play with Miles&Kenny Garrett back in the days, he is great player and I think he lives in California right now. Toshiko Akiyoshi is known for her big band stuff but she is a great piano player too.

I really don't think nationality/race has anything to do with how you play either, but I do think your cultural background does have an influence somewhat. For me Hiromi exemplifies what I don't like about Japanese jazz musicians..they have great chops but musically it doesn't move me. That is not to say all Japanese musician play that way, but I've been there and I understand why such stereotype exist.

It's also one thing that I kind of struggle with here. There are a lot of very well respected players here in Asia, but when I listen to them, I definitely hear the difference between the "real thing" , I definitely hear a difference in quality.. maybe not so much technically, but musically/creativity wise.

btw sorry for hijkacing the thread.. maybe i should start a new thread?

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#1476081 - 07/17/10 12:14 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: beeboss]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1655
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Etcetra,

I guess I don't think that nationality is really important. Great musicians can come from anywhere. Why should it matter if Tigran Hamasyan is from Europe or Kenny Wheeler is originally from Canada?

I am with you on Hiromi, her music doesn't do it for me. I do like Masabumi Kikuchi though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88WQjom_jFU&feature=related

and thanks for putting me onto Kei Akagi, from the few clips I heard he sounds like an interesting player.



I love Masabumi Kikuchi. I bought an album a number of years ago where he plays Kurt Weil tunes with (i think) Gary Peacock and Paul Motian and listened to it many times. There are certainly great players everywhere. I guess the point I was originally making (just for my own clarification) is that in North America there are many many players who are pretty close to the very top players in Europe--maybe even as good but without the press. These are just the local 'working' musicians who aren't winning Downbeat polls.
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#1476101 - 07/17/10 01:02 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: AJF]
BDB Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/03
Posts: 21828
Loc: Oakland
Quote:
You don't have to come to Europe to check out John Taylor, Bobo Stenson, Martial Solal, Django Bates, Stefano Bollani, Enrico Pieranunzi, Michel Petrucciani...


No, it will not do any good to go anywhere to check out Michel these days.

(I met him a few times. He even came over to my house once.)
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#1476121 - 07/17/10 01:53 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: BDB]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i've bought the Koln Concert 2x - once with all the money i had in the world.
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#1476128 - 07/17/10 02:08 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: BDB]
beeboss Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1219
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: BDB
Quote:
You don't have to come to Europe to check out John Taylor, Bobo Stenson, Martial Solal, Django Bates, Stefano Bollani, Enrico Pieranunzi, Michel Petrucciani...


No, it will not do any good to go anywhere to check out Michel these days.


He still lives on in our hearts, and you can still check him out on cyberspace and vinyl wherever you live ;-)

It must have been great to meet him, lucky you. I did see him play quite a few times back in the late 80's early 90's.
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#1476284 - 07/17/10 08:53 PM Re: Contact info for Keith Jarrett? [Re: beeboss]
charleslang Online   content
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 2084
I like this video about him. Such amazing locations and interesting personal story:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzDS42wyHGw
_________________________
Charles Lang

Baldwin Model R; Hardman 5'9" grand; Rieger-Kloss vertical

Jazz, pop and classical

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