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#1472361 - 07/11/10 02:43 PM Piano Teacher Certification
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
The International Piano Teachers Guild offers piano teacher certification, competitions, professional resources, forum, etc.

Associate Membership is free and professional certification starts at just $30 USD.

Check it out.

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#1472379 - 07/11/10 03:20 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13795
Loc: Iowa City, IA
It looks like a website that was set up last week.

What are the credentials and history of the people in charge of the IPTG? Who are the examiners for certification?

The "resources" link takes you to a list of other websites and a forum that was set up 2 days ago and has no content yet. Are more resources planned?

Who will judge the competitions? Besides being featured on the webpage, is there some kind of monetary prize or performance opportunity given?

Is the IPTG an incorporated business? A non-profit? How do we know where our money's going? For all we can tell, we're paying $30 for somebody to watch a few YouTube videos and print us a ready-made certificate off a laser printer. There's a lack of information here - I'm not saying it's a scam, but it does look a little like somebody figured out an easy way to make some money.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1472414 - 07/11/10 04:34 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Kreisler]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Mr. Wyndham's resume looks a bit thin. What I can find of his bio and here is his website. You, too, can become a piano teacher for just $499! Wow, such a deal.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1472422 - 07/11/10 04:47 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: John v.d.Brook]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
The president of IPTG endorses his own Diploma in Piano Education? Surprised?
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1472430 - 07/11/10 05:04 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: keyboardklutz]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
Hey, guys. This is Russell Wyndham. I am the founder of both IPTG and the Wyndham Academy of Music. I appreciate the comments and concerns and want to address them. The IPTG is a brand new organization and the website was launched just 2 days ago. There's no deception there. It is a for-profit organization that I own. I have invited several highly educated, distinguished people to be on the board. Hopefully, those terms will be worked out in the next few weeks and their info will be added to the website. The competitions that will be conducted beginning in 2011 will be offered a cash prize and their winning video will be featured on the website. The board that I am currently assembling will be the adjudicators. There's also been no attempt at deception regarding the affiliation with my own school. The Wyndham Academy of Music was created to work in unison with the IPTG. I am working with some other programs right now to see if their certification programs could fit the standards of certification. I sincerely apologize if anything about the website looks suspicious. I will promptly address your honest feedback. You have to start somewhere and I just started this organization.

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#1472448 - 07/11/10 05:36 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
I'm curious -- why form an organization like this to start with? You realize obviously that it's a tough sell, right?

Personally I find "pieces of paper" from any organization of this type to be pretty much worthless in the grand scheme of things. Good teachers don't need pieces of paper to prove their worth, the proof is in the pudding.
_________________________
FREE 90-page eBook of sheet music: www.pianopronto.com/specialoffer

Piano Pronto Music Books: www.pianopronto.com

BA in Piano/MA Musicology



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#1472451 - 07/11/10 05:41 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13795
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I barely think MTNA certification is worth it. The only reason I'm about to take the plunge is that the state I live in won't let me be a judge at their events. frown

Once I'm certified, judging gigs should offset the cost.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1472454 - 07/11/10 05:48 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
I do realize that its a tough sell and that there are much larger, firmly established organizations that can provide more services. There are several reasons why I started the organization.

1) Price point. Many people do desire certification and membership in a professional organization. But, without naming names, some organizations charge $500+ after all is said and done for their "piece of paper". While Plan #4 with IPTG can costs that much, others can be certified and gain membership for just $30. It's obvious I'm not trying to get rich here.

2) Community. There are some really great forums out there, such as this one, for piano teachers but I wanted to create another one.

3) Resources. Sometimes it takes a lot of google searches to find what you are looking for. I am trying to provide people with a lot of links and resources "under one roof".

4) Accessibility. Anyone can become an Associate Member of IPTG for free. Other organization are more exclusive and charge high(ish) annual membership fees.

4) Inclusive certification. Other organization require, in my opinion, an excessively stringent path to certification. I am seeking to provide an easier path that still upholds the value of standards. Anyone can claim to be a piano teacher and set up shop. IPTG certification does ensure that the teacher has skills and credibility.

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#1472465 - 07/11/10 06:00 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
1. Yes but here's the problem -- teachers typically fall into two categories. Either they are established with one of these "large" orgs already and wouldn't leave for anything, or they're the type like me that thinks any piece of paper from these "certifiers" is a waste of time and money. Pieces of paper doesn't = good teachers. Your market would essentially be new teachers who are looking for something cheap that looks like something.

2. Here's the problem with forums, you get a lot of lurkers but typically more established forums have a handful of people who post all the time and the rest don't care enough to do so. It doesn't mean people won't take away info by just lurking but again is there a need for another online forum, probably not.

3. You've said "resources" but I don't know what you mean. I find everything I need off of Google -- it's not rocket science.

4. Ok...but what does being a part of your organization mean? For that matter most parents don't care if you're part of any organization, they want a good teacher who will motivate and inspire their kids.

#4 again. What is excessively stringent? A music degree? I don't think that's out of the question. If you're the type of teacher that wants to get involved in judging competitions and things like that then you probably should be profiled somewhat, I don't see the problem with that.

I'm not trying to kill your level of excitement but I think as a business model you have some thinking to do about who your target audience is.
_________________________
FREE 90-page eBook of sheet music: www.pianopronto.com/specialoffer

Piano Pronto Music Books: www.pianopronto.com

BA in Piano/MA Musicology



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#1472474 - 07/11/10 06:19 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
Jennifer,

I appreciate your feedback and agree with much of what you have said. Certainly certification does not equal skill as a teacher. Many great teachers have no certification and I recognize that. You have hit the nail on the head about my target audience - new piano teachers. I have always supported piano teachers who are just starting out and if getting education through the Wyndham Academy of Music or certification through IPTG can help them begin their careers, then I can rest easy at night. I want to be clear that I am here to support and not exploit piano teachers. Again, Associate Membership is free and certification begins at a measly $30. I know that there are many teachers who have strong feelings against certification organizations and so I naturally get thrown under the bus a little bit from the get-go and I expect that. However, I just want to be clear that I am a transparent professional and have very good intentions with my businesses.

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#1472481 - 07/11/10 06:25 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
Fair enough, but you have said a few times now that certs *start* at $30.

For $30 I can easily go to a used book website and pick up some pedagogy books and truthfully teachers develop their own style and experience through the actual act of teaching. Nothing I learned in college pedagogy classes made me a better teacher, experience through 16+ years in the business did that.
_________________________
FREE 90-page eBook of sheet music: www.pianopronto.com/specialoffer

Piano Pronto Music Books: www.pianopronto.com

BA in Piano/MA Musicology



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#1472489 - 07/11/10 06:36 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
There are 4 plans for certification through IPTG and the cheapest is Plan #1 which costs $30. Plans #2-3 costs $75. Plan #4 is for teachers with no education and little to no experience. This plan costs about $575 but they get a lot for that money: Courses and personal tutoring in Music Theory, Music History, Piano Pedagogy, and a Piano Practicum. I agree that most learning does happen in the context of DOING, so the program includes a practicum. This can be said of almost all academic endeavors. You get a foundation at school and you learn your trade on the job. Where else can you get educated and certified for that little money? Thanks for your thoughts, Jennifer, and to the others who have commented. I really do value the opinions of other teachers and have already made changes to the website in response. Like I said, community is a major objective of IPTG. I need to leave the forum to attend to some other things. If anyone has any further questions, please contact me by email: WorldofMusicRW@gmail.com

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#1472495 - 07/11/10 06:43 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Jennifer Eklund Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/16/09
Posts: 162
Loc: SoCal
Problems I have with this website:

#1 -- He doesn't have a music degree, or a degree in pedagogy and has studied piano for only 9 years.

#2 -- These "competitions" for cash prizes will be via YouTube. Really? Can you successfully judge musicality through and online video.

#3 -- This "technical diploma" from an "online college" will mean diddly-squat when all is said and done.
_________________________
FREE 90-page eBook of sheet music: www.pianopronto.com/specialoffer

Piano Pronto Music Books: www.pianopronto.com

BA in Piano/MA Musicology



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#1472497 - 07/11/10 06:48 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
We piano teachers in the USA already have two national certification bodies, MTNA and NGPT. These long established organizations have a track record and tight criteria for certification. Parents, if they investigate, can learn about these organizations and how teachers earn their credentials. Each organization has an unique approach to certification. Teachers may have a preference one way or the other, but I doubt either could be challenged as superficial in any manner.

In addition, National Music Certificate Program is working towards a teacher certification program, if it doesn't already have it established. This is tied to the RCM and Associated Boards in the UK, and I might add, is extremely well regarded.

So the question becomes, what does yet another certification program offer the teacher? How will the prospective student benefit by finding a teacher with an IPTG certification?


Edited by John v.d.Brook (07/11/10 06:51 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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#1472500 - 07/11/10 06:51 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
Quick reply:

1) I have studied piano for 20 years. My website states that I studied piano for 9 years BEFORE studying Sacred Music at Boyce College. I attended for 2.5 years and earned 60 credit hours in music courses. I am applying to some Music Education programs currently to finish out my bachelor's degree. The other contributors to the Wyndham Academy have advanced degrees in Music/Pedagogy as do the people who are being considering for positions on the board of IPTG. This isn't a one-man show.

2) I believe that music can be successfully judged through online video provided that it is a quality recording. I don't see how it differs substantially from seeing/hearing someone play live.

3) Those who have completed the program at the Wyndham Academy, and those who are currently enrolled, have nothing but positive things to say about how much they've learned and they view it as very valuable. If learning has occurred, then it is unfair to say that at the end of the day it is worth nothing. Furthermore, the Wyndham Academy never refers to itself as an online college or to it's program as a college degree. The website states clearly that it is an unaccredited online school that offers a technical diploma.

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#1472659 - 07/12/10 12:57 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
You don't sound very experienced to me. You need to be an internationally recognized pedagogue before even considering founding such an organization. It'd be worth knowing what you have published.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1472675 - 07/12/10 01:59 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: keyboardklutz]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
I readily concur that I am not an "internationally recognized pedagogue", very few people are. To say I'm not very experienced is just false. I've played piano for 20 years and taught professionally for 10. In that time, I've taught hundreds of students and maintain a client base currently of almost 30 students. I've worked professionally as a Music Minister and am currently the pianist at my church. I received the Irma Huckreide scholarship for excellence in Classical Music in 2001. My whole life has been and will continue to be piano. I think that I inadvertently stepped into a hostile crowd in here.

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#1472678 - 07/12/10 02:17 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Originally Posted By: WorldofMusicRW
and am currently the pianist at my church.
Kinda says it all really.



Edited by keyboardklutz (07/12/10 02:37 AM)
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1472679 - 07/12/10 02:23 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
AZNpiano Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 5509
Loc: Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: WorldofMusicRW
I think that I inadvertently stepped into a hostile crowd in here.


"Hostile" would be the wrong word. I think the responses you've gotten are pretty honest and helpful.
_________________________
Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member

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#1472686 - 07/12/10 02:46 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
Pedagogia Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 53
Loc: Australia
Hello

Although your program contributors have recognised qualifications in music and 1 in pedegogy, who is delivering the program?

I would be quite weary of receiving instruction (online) form someone with no formal qualifications.

You have Pedagogy I/II/III listed - piano pedagogy and indeed music education - are areas with a significant bodies of research and literature - to be delivered by who? A book? Both?

Are you using Dr. Jacobsons book for this? The outline for the courses look very familiar.

Robert Sherrane - worked at Julliard in the Library. Author of Music History - Plausible.

I just fail to see how it can be delivered sucessfully.

Each course has an exam - how do you asses teaching of technique, teaching of rhythm, principles of learning? (what is that?).

To be assessed by someone who is not themselves qualified in any educational field. How high is the bar to pass one of these open book exams?

Will everyone pass because they have paid their money?

You are targeting a specific audience, however anyone who is considering seriously a career in music/piano education would have to look elsewhere.

BB

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#1472687 - 07/12/10 02:47 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: AZNpiano]
WorldofMusicRW Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/09/10
Posts: 10
Perhaps I'm getting rather defensive at this point. I suppose it's just surprising to me that my businesses are receiving such objection when they were created to help piano teachers. I have received much affirmation from piano teachers in every environment but this forum. Alas, you can't win 'em all. I will bow out of this conversation on a positive note: I do appreciate honesty and, as I said before, I have already made changes to the IPTG site in response to some of the feedback on here. I wish you all much success in your piano teaching. In a world full of so many negative things, piano teachers have the great honor of giving students the gift of music which can last a lifetime. God bless.

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#1472690 - 07/12/10 02:52 AM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: WorldofMusicRW]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Gone to hang his shingle elsewhere no doubt. The word presumptuous springs to mind.
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1472907 - 07/12/10 12:22 PM Re: Piano Teacher Certification [Re: Jennifer Eklund]
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/18/06
Posts: 7393
Loc: Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Jennifer Eklund
Personally I find "pieces of paper" from any organization of this type to be pretty much worthless in the grand scheme of things. Good teachers don't need pieces of paper to prove their worth, the proof is in the pudding.

Totally agree. It happens that Piano Guild offers "proof of the pudding" certification when teachers have achieved a certain level with their students. It comes with achievement, you cannot buy it, test for it, get it with multiple degrees, etc. It's nice to have, but I wouldn't stop having my students participate in Auditions regardless of whether they offered a certification or not.
_________________________
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

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