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Today I got chance to visit a male teacher for a free trial lesson. Here how it went...
Teacher started with telling about his qualifications. He has a degree in music from an UK university. Followed by a brief on history of the piano, genre of music classical, romantic with the big old famous composers like Chopin, Haydn, Mozart... With all due respect, I find little interesting.
Then teacher got me on the piano with my foot on the damper. Playing 4 notes song in "snowy tune".
Here is the best part:
Teacher immediately asked me to PAY for the first month. He said to secure the only time slot he has. And he interested in student like me (I'm a complete beginner) due to I'm male as to have the strength and intellect to master this instrument. He claimed that I can make it to ABRSM Grade 8 in 4 years time!
A little bit hesitation, I replied that I would like to think about it. He got little bit impatient. He told me that "he will not take me in if I do not make payment now" and gave me minutes to consider.
I was feeling puzzled as I had no ideas what and how he is going to teach me. Furthermore I had a feeling that he is very demanding and strict.
My sixth sense was right. He said there are going to be a lot of stresses and high standards must be maintained. He said I will regret because he is a very good teacher. He is one of those few teacher with honors degree around.
I turned off the offer to be his student in the end because I have feeling it's going to be dreadful lessons with high level of expectation from him.
Question to all teachers: does the level of mastery requires harsh training and stresses? Has any pianist mastered the instrument through the "joyful way"? I feel that the teacher is an expert in his field. However I'm afraid it's not going to be enjoying the piano but rather technical drills and stressful training.
Should I find another teacher? Please share your opinions.
Last edited by Day Dreamer; 07/13/10 12:38 PM.
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That's not how I would go about it. But remember, these are tough economic times, and people, especially self-employed people, are facing even rougher times. We have to guard against sounding desperate, even if we are.
About the paying a month in advance. So many teachers are stiffed by students that more and more, we are demanding payment up front. It's just the way of the world.
"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
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A little bit hesitation, I replied that I would like to think about it. He got little bit impatient. He told me that "he will not take me in if I do not make payment now" and gave me minutes to consider. ... Should I find another teacher? Please share your opinions.
That line about "you have to decide now" is all I'd need to know. Run away! Aside from that, I'd have to say that if you got the sense that he would take all of the fun and joy out of music for you, then you should listen to that sense.
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What Larry B. said. This guy sounds like a big mistake.
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... I'm male as to have the strength and intellect to master this instrument. Does this also reflect economic times? Then teacher got me on the piano with my foot on the damper. Playing 4 notes song in "snowy tune". Play 3 notes plus an octave of some chord / arpeggio while holding down the damper - a chicken** pecking the keys could make a pretty sound. Is this teaching or a trick to impress a student who doesn't know anything yet. He did not state what he intended to teach or what he finds important to teach. He talked about fast tracking a student through grade levels --- that will be a solid record for his credentials. Where is his interest in his students. ** Chicken must be male, so that it has the intelligence and strength for effective pecking, since apparently females lack both these qualities. Rooster, then.
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In my opinion (and experience)... You don't need a piano teacher to learn the piano. All you need to know is how to learn .. and how to motivate yourself. If you want to be told how to learn every step of the way and also be motivated , then get a teacher. If you really really love the piano, don't worry about a teacher. You can teach yourself if you can think logically. And this in my opinion is the most joyful way, because essentially you learn what ever you WANT. not what somebody else wants. Start by jumping on you tube... "how to play***on piano" There are heaps of piano tutorials of songs. Just learn 10 of your favorite songs and really get a feel of how to play the piano for yourself. Then when you've got all the basics, you can either get an experienced teacher to show you new concepts, or develop your ear and watch and imitate other musicians... GO. Don't feel like you NEED a teacher to learn the piano. If you're an absolute beginner, then you'll probably be paying $50 an hour to have the teacher show you how to press the keys right, sit up straight, read boring baby songs on paper etc. If you're not retarded. the game is figuring stuff out for yourself! that way you can go straight for the JOY WAY!!! try this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyC5FEDIm_k I'll invoice you .. lol...
... such a vital organ
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I don't think it is wrong to ask for a month payment in advance - it is the "make up your mind this minute" approach I find a bit pushy. Also,the goal seems to be to rush through as many levels as possible in a very short time. ..... Sounds stressful to me, not something I'd want to do for a hobby - even one I'm passionate about, like this one!
I also wonder about giving a big speech on the history of music during the first lesson..... Personally I wouldn't have thought that necessary or ideal for a first lesson. - Unless perhaps if it had been linked to "this is how we're going to progress"....
I suppose many people can learn without a teacher. Personally, I am happy to have one and feel I'm learning things that are keeping me from developing bad habits and that I know I couldn't have picked up from youtube ( specifically with regards to managing muscle tension, positions).
18 ABF Recitals, Order of the Red Dot European Piano Parties - Brussels, Lisbon, Lucern, Milan, Malaga, St. Goar Themed recitals: Grieg and Great American Songbook
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Hippymusicman - I, for one, would appreciate it if you could keep your 'advice' on this particular subject to yourself. I very much doubt that I am alone here, when I say that one of the worst thing a new student can say to me is "I've been teaching myself for a few years ." Experience tells me that chances are that the first few months, possibly years, are going to be spent trying to undo the dreadful technique they've developed in the absence of a watchful, expert eye. In fact, I would say that the more novice the student, the greater the need for a teacher. If it turns out that they have a natural technique - great! But guess what? They will still benefit from the guidance of someone with more experience who can help them to achieve far greater things than they could on their own. If you really really love the piano, don't worry about a teacher. You can teach yourself if you can think logically
This is complete and utter nonsense. Surely, if you 'really, really love' the piano, you owe it, not only to yourself, but to any potential audience to ensure that you are achieving the very best from yourself and your instrument? Only someone with a seriously inflated opinion of themselves would think that they couldn't benefit from the insights of a musician of greater experience than they.
Last edited by Ben Crosland; 07/13/10 04:34 PM.
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To the OP - I fully understand why the teacher you saw was so keen to get a month's commitment from you, but it definitely sounds like he was giving you the hard sell, which is always a mistake, IMO. I am also very uncomfortable with his promises about 'getting you to AB Grade 8 in 4 years'- this is not only stunningly unlikely, but also, impossible to predict from any first lesson with an absolute beginner, let alone one in which you only played 4 notes for him!
My instincts tell me you should stay well clear of this guy - I hope you have better luck next time!
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I very much doubt that I am alone here, when I say that one of the worst thing a new student can say to me is "I've been teaching myself for a few years ." Experience tells me that chances are that the first few months, possibly years, are going to be spent trying to undo the dreadful technique they've developed in the absence of a watchful, expert eye. Now whether my teacher is just a good liar or not I can't say ... but she told me "don't worry, you will be great" when I explained my self-taught past. And both she and the studio owner (who also teaches there) have said they are impressed how quickly I have been able to improve. Andy.
- Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
- Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44
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Good for you, Andy I wouldn't say that such a statement would make anyone a liar, but certainly an optimist. Which is no bad thing at all, obviously. Don't get me wrong, I would never be discouraging to a new student who'd just told me they'd taught themselves, but I am always much happier when they say they are a complete beginner. My point to HMM was really that it is not his place, nor anyone else's for that matter to advise anyone that they don't need a teacher. He simply cannot know that. Sure, there are those who become fantastic, "GENIUSES with no EGO" who are entirely self-taught, but only an idiot would think that everyone has this potential, if only they'd stay away from all those pesky teachers who keep ruining music and making it not FUN.
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Like with most things, I think Ben and Hippy are both correct to an extent. The question of whether or not a teacher would be better for the OP (and notice that the question is better, not whether it's necessary) depends a huge amount on the OP's goals. If they just want to be able to belt out some simple tunes and prefers jazzy music (the OP does state that they have no interest in Beethoven, Mozart, etc) then going it alone might be ok. However, if they want to be able to play a Rach concerto then a teacher is probably the better way to go.
That said, to the OP, I'd be concerned about any teacher that didn't ask within the first few minutes of meeting them exactly what _your_ goals are. The teachers credentials are only important relative to how those credentials can help you achieve your goals. And by goals, I'm not just referring to pieces or levels, but as you mentioned, all the things surrounding the teaching such as the amount of practice and the overall experience.
Oh and don't let anyone hard sell you into signing contracts or paying any monies that you don't feel comfortable doing. Like others have mentioned requiring a months pay in advance _once_ you agree to terms is quite reasonable. Insisting that you have to make a decision and pay right then and there is not a good sign.
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If you really really love the piano, don't worry about a teacher. You can teach yourself if you can think logically
This is complete and utter nonsense. Only if your goal is to become a classical pianist. Otherwise, of course you can teach yourself piano.
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First you have the free trial lesson.
THEN, if you like it, you commit to more. And that's when tuition in advance for the month is due.
This teacher sounds like a real jerk.
Music School Owner Early Childhood Music Teacher/Group Piano Teacher/Private Piano Teacher Member of MTAC and Guild
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Question to all teachers: does the level of mastery requires harsh training and stresses? Has any pianist mastered the instrument through the "joyful way"? I feel that the teacher is an expert in his field. However I'm afraid it's not going to be enjoying the piano but rather technical drills and stressful training.
Sorry - I got distracted from answering these questions directly. The answer to your first question, I would say, depends largely on your definition of 'the level of mastery', and how quickly you would want to achieve such a level. It would make sense that the quicker you want to attain a certain mastery of any skill, then the harder you will have to train - however, there must be a balance in your approach. There is always a limit on how much training one can undertake within a given time-frame before it becomes, at best, pointless and, at worst, damaging. The answer to your second question, would have to be a resounding "Yes!". Of course it can be joyful. For me, it's all about striking the right balance between maintaining a healthy rate of progress, but also encouraging the student to take the time to smell the roses along the way.
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I ask that students pay upfront for lessons. However, I do not demand money at the trial lesson. In fact, I may not even ask them to sign up for lessons if I'm sensing some incompatibility with them or if I feel they are hesitating. The reason I do this is that if they go home and sleep on it and then decide the next day that they want to start up lessons, then I know they've made that commitment in their mind. Doing the hard sell like this teacher here will only result in snap decisions that will end badly in the long run.
As pointed out earlier, this teacher seemed more interested in talking about himself than finding out what you wanted form lessons. In fact, he was telling you what you'd get from lessons. You made the right choice by not being bullied into lessons. He sounds like the wrong teacher for you.
Level of mastery has nothing to do with being rude, abusive, harsh, or overly demanding. It has to do with the work ethic of the student and the ability of the teacher to teach things in an orderly fashion, have expectations and goals that the student agrees to, and the ability to inspire their student to reach new challenges, to name a few.
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If you really really love the piano, don't worry about a teacher. You can teach yourself if you can think logically
This is complete and utter nonsense. Only if your goal is to become a classical pianist. Otherwise, of course you can teach yourself piano. Look - anyone can teach themselves piano if they so desire, but this should be an issue of personal choice, and definitely not one of so-called 'advice' from self-taught musicians. If someone feels they need tuition, then the advice they need in this instance is the kind that will help them source a teacher who will inspire them to develop in the way that feels right for both parties. Assuming the OP finds someone suitable, it could well turn out that they choose, at some point in the future, to stop taking lessons and to continue discovering music on their own terms - this could even be after a few months of lessons for all I know, or care. But to actually suggest to some random stranger that they don't even need a teacher is, IMO, downright irresponsible. I also find your assertion that Classical music is the only genre in which an aspiring musician can benefit from the advice and insight of someone with more experience than they, to be yet more nonsense, to be perfectly frank.
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In my opinion (and experience)... You don't need a piano teacher to learn the piano. All you need to know is how to learn .. and how to motivate yourself. If you want to be told how to learn every step of the way and also be motivated , then get a teacher. If you really really love the piano, don't worry about a teacher. You can teach yourself if you can think logically. And this in my opinion is the most joyful way, because essentially you learn what ever you WANT. not what somebody else wants. Start by jumping on you tube... "how to play***on piano" There are heaps of piano tutorials of songs. Just learn 10 of your favorite songs and really get a feel of how to play the piano for yourself. Then when you've got all the basics, you can either get an experienced teacher to show you new concepts, or develop your ear and watch and imitate other musicians... GO. Don't feel like you NEED a teacher to learn the piano. If you're an absolute beginner, then you'll probably be paying $50 an hour to have the teacher show you how to press the keys right, sit up straight, read boring baby songs on paper etc. If you're not retarded. the game is figuring stuff out for yourself! that way you can go straight for the JOY WAY!!! try this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyC5FEDIm_k I'll invoice you .. lol... You seem to be forgetting a couple of important factors here: 1) Not everyone starts with the same abilities and capabilities. Some people can have a talent for playing technically well and therefore would be fine without a teacher, while others end up injuring themselves or at the very least developing bad habits that take years to work out. I know this, because I get students all the time who do this. If it were so natural for everyone, this would not happen. 2) Learning with good instruction is always better and easier than learning on your own. Even for myself, when I'm working with a teacher I progress much faster than when I work alone, and I certainly know what I'm doing. So even if you are the rare talent who doesn't need instruction, it will still be beneficial in the long run to take lessons fresh from the start. Taking lessons can be joyful if it's with the right teacher for you. The joy gets lost, however, when you take lessons from a teacher with whom you disagree or don't get along. Oh, and that video is *not* helpful, unless you want to show the way not to play the Moonlight sonata. My guess is he's self-taught.
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I also find your assertion that Classical music is the only genre in which an aspiring musician can benefit from the advice and insight of someone with more experience than they, to be yet more nonsense, to be perfectly frank. Of course you can benefit from someone with more experience. Again, depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to note read and play the 'masters,' then of course, years and years of training is required - and expected. But if you just want to sit down and play what you feel using a few chords, not much is needed, except the most important skill of all - learning to trust intuition. Nonsense? Nah.
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... I'm male as to have the strength and intellect to master this instrument. [...] Play 3 notes plus an octave of some chord / arpeggio while holding down the damper - a chicken** pecking the keys could make a pretty sound. Is this teaching or a trick to impress a student who doesn't know anything yet. [...] ** Chicken must be male, so that it has the intelligence and strength for effective pecking, since apparently females lack both these qualities. Rooster, then. But I wouldn't get too excited about this. He probably says to potential female students that they have the sensitivity and intellect to master this instrument.
Mary Bee Current mantra: Play outside the box. XVI-XXXVI
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