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#1420225 - 04/19/10 07:54 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Quote:
(too busy)

Come on! Don't give me that.
I have to do it at night myself, 8 to 11 or so. I don't want to take week ends.
Myself, I just posted a simple ad saying
"Intermediate Jazz Pianist looking for more to have fun. No gig, just fun "
I got a bunch of singers, and I didn't follow up with them, and then a couple of funny responses.

C_A,
yeah, my dad played horns. Clarinet, Tenor and Flute mostly. I played Clarinet as a kid myself. He was a big fan of Bird above all, but also Prez, Hawk and the whole era. My uncle was one of those guys who only had a real job as a butcher for about a month, played accordeon so much, and then a bunch of other instruments, basically following the trends. Lots of fun stories. Among which he managed to play with Dizz at a jazz festival in Antibes, and toured with Grappelli (funny stories there). A bunch of famous french musicians of diverse backgrounds too. You can listen to the guy talk for hours. Perhaps the most interesting to me now, is the amount of hours he spent on the beach, with a tape player, transcribing pages and pages of music. Nothing but a tape player and paper. Out of it, he became a great arranger. At 81, he still plays regularly, mostly clarinet now.

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#1420455 - 04/20/10 06:42 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: Sydney
oh wow Knotty, you have a really interesting heritage. Why didn't you invite your dad and uncle to jam at your place ?

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#1421889 - 04/22/10 08:09 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
quick update, had my first Quartet yesterday. We had lots of fun. Piano + guitar + alto sax + bass. The guitarist has great chops, actually he's a guitar teacher. The alto is the youngest and can blow really fun changes. All really nice guys. Sounds like we might make this a weekly event!
A couple of week from now, we should be joined by a drummer, which will complete our quintet.

I'll keep you posted!

++

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#1421897 - 04/22/10 08:21 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Weekly Jazz at knotty's -- WOW!

knotty - That is so very cool. Your group needs to come up with a name. cool
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1421923 - 04/22/10 09:37 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Swingin' Barb]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
ah... the name, yes, we will have to think about that.

It's great because I'm kind of obviously behind skill-wise, having no experience playing in a group. But I think they enjoy the practice space so much that they're really all for coming back. The horn practices in the parking lot ...
Drummers usually have the problem.

So we all win wink

keep you posted.

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#1422144 - 04/22/10 04:56 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
That's really cool Knotty.

About me, seriously, no time this calendar year (some extra responsibilities). But I'm keeping up the practice time (albeit at very late hours) and pushing to get it up another notch. Unlike you, no one likes Jazz in my family frown
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#1422350 - 04/22/10 10:53 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
knotty, that's cool that you are playing with others via craigslist! I've posted there before too and had some hit and miss results. Played with probably over 10 musicians in various forms, but I would consider it free jamming. Nothing much came out of them.

I think you need to rehearse and play alot with the same people to get a feel musically. And also have the same goals in mind, ie. gigging vs just playing.

Hope it turns out well!

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#1422431 - 04/23/10 02:44 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Wizard of Oz]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: Sydney
Knotty
You know how musicians have a reputation for being unreliable ? Well I think it's a miracle all of them turned up on the right day and the right time let. Let alone all of you getting along with all the different personalities and egos involved.
Sounds like you are having a blast.

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#1423196 - 04/24/10 09:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
you towo are right. The first challenge will be to see if we can find a common time for everyone.

Then we'll see about expectations. I have a feeling these guys are in just for the fun. The horn's more adventurous than the others, so maybe he'll get bored, or maybe I'll learn to listen, who knows?
I think though that once I have a quintet going, if one leaves, it won't be hard to find replacements.

From a progress perspective, since the last time we played, I have already seen a big change in the way I play. First I surprised myself by playing a tune I had never played before, though a simple one (Night and Day), I played the head from sheet (I seem to be the only one who can read a fake book well enough), then was able to solo on it.
Next, I am starting to play at higher tempos. As we get to 160 or so, things get shaky. The bass player gets blisters on his fingers, the horns lines get much shorter, and I lose my feeling in 4s.

Next meeting this Monday, we shall see.

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#1423655 - 04/24/10 11:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
BTW Knotty, I'm curious. With such a random collection of musicians of varying skill, how's everyone's time? Were you able to get a groove going? That's what I always wonder about if I ever play with a group that's not professional.

Did everyone know the same tunes or did you give everyone homework so you all practice on the same tune? Like Wiz says, otherwise, it becomes random jamming and you never get anything accomplished. That's my experience with a Jazz guitar player who doesn't know any standards (he plays his own original stuff mostly).

About the only thing we knew well enough was the Blues.
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My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1423838 - 04/25/10 09:36 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
JW,

I had sent a list of tunes we could play. We went over them, and then randomly picked from the realbook. We all knew all the tunes, we didn't pick any complex changes. As for the melody, for the most part, I just sight read it.

Some worked better than others, ATTYA is obviously more difficult than AL, but we managed. On Night and Day, neither or use had really played it as a straight jazz standard, but that ended up being fun as we started trading 4s.

For a first, I would say it was a great success. We'll see down the lane, but what do I have to lose? I've already learned a lot from it, and really enjoyed it.

The end result to me is far less important than the experience, and it really comes down to how well we get along. If everyone's nice, then we're bound to have a good time.

As for time, I'd say we did ok. Clearly as we picked up the pace, we started rushing it at times, once we totally lost it, but other than that, everyone seemed to have a good sense of time. The guitar was the only professional in the group being a guitar teacher, but the others are economist at the IMF and the 3rd in political Science (typical NW DC by the way).

I've played with guitarist before, and it wasn't as much fun because you end up spending your time explaining jazz improv, while they are usually comfortable with pentatonics, no more. This was not the case here. Get that reed moist and start blowing wink

I'll keep you posted.

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#1423848 - 04/25/10 10:06 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
sounds like Custard Apple and I came up with a good name for the band.

Sorry, I could not resist the dramatic effect:
http://www.box.net/shared/mfauziky9z

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#1424082 - 04/25/10 06:55 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
Knotty, I actually feel pretty comfortable now to play solo (forgetting about a band for a moment). There's a place I can play too (a club I belong to) and I often just go steal the piano for a moment and play.

However, since I practice so intently on just a few tunes at a time (for long periods), I find that I forget my set list. I've been asked to play at the bar over and over but I've been too lazy to rehearse.

It would be nice to at least have a duo with a bass player.

But I guess it doesn't hurt to get better in the meantime. BTW - there seems to be a treshold one crosses when playing solo becomes feasible. It feels like I just crossed that. I was always taught to play solo style in recent years so it looks like it paid off.
_________________________
Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1424089 - 04/25/10 07:09 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
Years ago, I saw Brad Mehldau on TV (on the short lived BET Jazz channel). He played solo piano and I was just so impressed by his playing that I wanted to find a DVD of that show. For years, I never saw this playing again.

Well lo and behold, it is now available on Youtube and in HD Quality. The quality and sound are just awesome. And more impressive to watch that fabulous left hand of his.

Brad Mehldau - Solo Jazz Sessions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPJYjVOH4GM Resignation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYbv9BOgtzg Riverman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS3zE_gleYU 29 Palms

I remember hearing this when I was just starting Jazz and thought that listening to this should make me quit smile But now it doesn't look so impossible as it did.
_________________________
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1424118 - 04/25/10 07:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
you know, for me, it has become more and more obvious that group will be my favorite way to play.
Solo is too hard to begin with, and I think I like the sound of a band too much.
I remember a Bill Evans interview with Marian Mc Partland where he said he never gave solo piano enough attention and so he was not good at it. smile that made me smile. But to the point, he really shined in a trio setting. It's as if he invented the trio setting.

It's great that you have a place to play in your club. I can understand your reluctance to rehearse. There's a benefit to it though, in that you would really need to focus on developing a repertoire.

I will check out those Mehldau videos.

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#1424123 - 04/25/10 07:53 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
wow, I can see why the Resignation video would want to make you quit. I thought it was 2 pianists in there! Amazing.

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#1424229 - 04/25/10 11:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
Originally Posted By: knotty
wow, I can see why the Resignation video would want to make you quit. I thought it was 2 pianists in there! Amazing.


Makes one respect solo piano doesn't it?

Don't be to sure about Evans. His solo piano is amazing. He does a solo piano bit as an intro.

The thing about playing jazz in solo piano has to do mostly with using all the registers of the piano at once. In combo, the pianist avoids the lower register. As you can imagine it poses a 2-handed challenge if you don't practice like that. Then one ends up playing mostly rootless LH voicings.

If you watch Doug McKenzie's videos, he almost always plays the two handed style.
_________________________
Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP


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#1424265 - 04/26/10 12:35 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: jazzwee]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: Sydney
Knotty
Did you find that you were playing less notes in the band setting ?
I love Art Tatum's Night and Day.
Did you take it in turns to solo ?

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#1424358 - 04/26/10 07:22 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)

>> Did you find that you were playing less notes in the band setting ?
Not really during a solo. However, there are times where I hardly play at all.

>> Did you take it in turns to solo ?
Yes, as is typical I think. We played night and day, someone thought that someone was stealing his solo, and so we just started trading 4s. That was fun.

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#1426008 - 04/28/10 03:21 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873

One of the most swinging and killer versions of Autumn Leaves I've ever heard!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KvCFneCbBc&feature=related


The great Kenny Kirkland on piano.

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#1426166 - 04/28/10 08:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: Sydney
Hi Knotty
Trading 4s does sound like a fun idea, does that mean that each instrument solos for 4 measures each ?

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#1426207 - 04/28/10 09:49 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: custard apple]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Hi Knotty
Trading 4s does sound like a fun idea, does that mean that each instrument solos for 4 measures each ?

yes

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#1427231 - 04/30/10 03:04 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
So we had another group session last Monday. Oz and JW were right on. We kind of had a random jam session.

We still had a lot of fun, but I am going to try and set up a more structured set up, where we can sit on a few tunes for a while.

I'll keep you all posted, should be fun.

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#1430053 - 05/05/10 02:18 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
Sometimes less is more. We had 2 missing last Monday, so we played just bass + piano + guitar and it was amazing. We took it easy, and the nice easy tunes really paid off. AL, Solar and Softly in particular worked really nice.

For one, the time was much better than before, and though it's hard to measure when you're in it, I could really feel at times getting in the groove. The swing was really picking up.

Other fun things that happened was getting lost. Me and the bass player at times got lost, skipped measures, skipped sections, you name it. Yet, we never crashed, just listening, we got back on track. Sometimes, we just kind of figured it out on the spot. Like "well, so long for that B section, that's ok".
That was really cool actually.

And then we're also starting to get more used to what others are playing. This is the prize for me, be able to hear what someone is doing and pick out the accompaniement accordingly. I hope I can get closer to this with each session. Also when we traded 4s or 8s, we were more concious of what others were playing and actually continuing along the same lines.

Was a lot of fun. I'll keep you posted if anyone's interested.

++

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#1430065 - 05/05/10 02:37 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
jazzwee Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 7144
Loc: So. California
Nice Knotty! Yes keep posting. It let's us know what to expect.

I was playing with a neighbor once, who's a fantastic Jazz guitar player. Except that he didn't know hardly any standards and though his style was Jazz, he really composed his own. So we just started scouring through the real book and basically making a mess of tunes that neither of us knew well. But at least there a couple of tunes that we semi-knew together and then blues. We ended up playing mosty blues. This was a couple of years ago or more now.

Playing with a guitar player without knowing how (and I didn't) was tough because I felt I had to do a walking bass line and it just tensed me up. Too many things to think about.

It went fairly well considering though my solos were so simplified and stilted from the LH. It's like the piano is made to comp for guitar but it sure didn't sound too good with the guitar comping the piano (at the time).

It was my not knowing then how to balance the registers so I don't clash with the guitar's range. I knew to do that with the bass (though I was getting too complex).

If I were to do this again, I'd be simplifying the bass and everything else. Guitars vs. Piano does require rethinking. That was the time I knew to mostly play rootless voicings. That really clashes.

The best is really just Bass and Piano. Everything fits perfectly so there's choices.
_________________________
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My Jazz Blog
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#1430067 - 05/05/10 02:41 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
Swingin' Barb Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/06
Posts: 889
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: knotty
Was a lot of fun. I'll keep you posted if anyone's interested. ++

Yes knotty - keep us posted. Many of us are in awe of what you are doing. Which means, we are rather speechless! wink

Barb
_________________________
A Sudnow Method Fanatic
"Color tones, can't live without them"

To hear how I have progressed since 2006, check out: http://b.kane.home.mindspring.com

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#1430112 - 05/05/10 03:45 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: Swingin' Barb]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Great news from your way knotty! Will you be making any recordings to share?

I take it this means you've moved into your new place with a studio for music?

That would be so cool.

We have a piano downstairs and a drum kit upstairs. I think the family would complain if the living room was taken over by the drum kit.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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#1430152 - 05/05/10 04:50 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: ten left thumbs]
knotty Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/01/07
Posts: 3001
Loc: Bethesda, MD (Washington D.C)
JW,

You are right, comping for the guitar is a bit of a challenge, but actually, the hardest part is comping for the sax while the guitar is also comping.
But we are doing half way ok.

Barb,
that's really funny !

Tlt ,
yes I moved. The piano is in the living room, and so that's where we play. The drummer will bring his own kit. So far, no complaint ...
I am trying to get my wife to invite some friend to enjoy the show. For us to have some audience.

I don't think we are ready to record quite yet.
For one, recording would be a pretty serious challenge, I'm affraid that nothing but the drummer would come out. I'll have to see about that.

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#1430274 - 05/05/10 07:29 PM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2311
Loc: Sydney
Knotty
I love the bass. Is it an acoustic bass ?
So you're averaging one practice session a week ? That's excellent and is more than what a lot of bands manage.

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#1430526 - 05/06/10 09:45 AM Re: Jazz Study Group: Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, etc. [Re: knotty]
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 3336
Loc: Scotland
Originally Posted By: knotty

I am trying to get my wife to invite some friend to enjoy the show. For us to have some audience.



If I'm ever passing, I'll drop by.
_________________________
I am a competent teacher.


www.justfingers.co.uk
www.babysinging.co.uk

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