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Thanks for your kind words. At a fast tempo I really think you have to have some 1-2-3-5 patterns at your disposal for fillers.

Klink, I specifically don't work on those patterns though I admit it's easier on the fingers. So it's a little bit more difficult for me I suppose, but I realize it also makes my playing sound a little different. I notice I jump around a lot more so it's probably not conducive to 300bpm.

Good thing we do everything differently so it gives everyone a unique sound.

The melody for Ana Maria is quite straightforward, it's the underlying harmony that's tricky. It starts in a G sonority but every bar shifts, G maj7 , G sus, G -7, then goes off in tangents and G susb9.

I wonder how Shorter had the genius mind for composing when his instrument is single note, yet he thinks of all the layers beneath. Amazing.

Here's something cool I found, Chick Corea and Gulda doing a duet, Gulda's so taken by Chick he stops playing mid-song and let's him finish solo. They're playing Danny Boy and then Chick does some improv:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Obymdlwz0Ks&playnext_from=TL&videos=ZY_Bv_3MzNk

What I'm working on now is more of a reharm of GS. Scep I see what you're talking about now with the Whole Tone scale since I can actually use those as bass tones of alternate chords.

By time I figure this out, I think it will come out with a modern sound and more unpredictable.

Yeah, the whole tone thing works quite well.

As for reharm, I've also looked into sus chords and b9/#11 chords as subs that tie in the Eb to G to B sections better. I wonder though if it loses the intention of the original changes? Also before I started the piece I noticed an interesting reharm would be to restructure the chords around the Gmaj7 and Ebmaj7 outlines in the melody.
I'd rather not explain more about what I'm talking about to avoid further flair ups, but if anyone thinks they know what I mean and would like to further the thoughts we can go from there.

Sounds like we're doing the same kind of reharm. That's pretty close to what I'm doing in one case. Maybe we can compare voicings.

The other reharm I was working on, again focusing on the WT scale, is to just change the V degrees to a ii degree, thus making the chord movements whole steps.

So like
B Am G
instead of
B D7 G

Listen to the bass player in the original, I believe he was playing this type of bass line.

Another version I'm doing is getting rid of the ii in the ii-V so it stays longer on the V chord. That way, it allows more time to state an ALT type of sound.

Lots of possibilities and a really nice learning tool.

At this point, building speed isn't my priority. I've been typically practicing at about 180bpm. There's enough to think about

In fact, playing this in every key might be a project too.

Everybody's so quiet? Scep, haven't your students ended school yet?

From my end, after doing this nice workout with Giant Steps, which I'm practicing at 240bpm, I decided to focus a little bit on technique. I don't have a problem with soloing eighth notes at this tempo but I want to improve articulation and evenness.

It's one thing to practice scales, but I'm not sure what the best thing to do to build technique at these fast tempos.

Perhaps you all have some ideas to suggest. In the meantime, I'll practice maybe only two connecting chords in the progression, and then see where I hear unneveness as I lay some lines over the changes. Then I work on that. Typically it's a particular hand shape or fingering. It's kind of a tedious way for me to do this and I wish I had a more organized system.

In the past, my only exercises for developing speed and accuracy have been scales and arpeggios. But in real time soloing, often it is not so predictable, especially with GS. This is a tune that gives little opportunities or time for a scale run.

I have to say though that GS has improved everything I play. It's very hard to come up with creative lines on such a monster. But when you do, it shows up in other tunes.

On GS I practiced 1-2-3-5 patterns starting from the root and 5th of each chord with 3-5-2-1 as the only permutation, (my fav, great thematic value) ex: F#, D#, C#, B, C, E, B, A (for the first bar 8 notes). Then I practiced all harmonic outlines as described by Bert Ligon (http://www.jazzguitarlessons.net/image-files/ccwlh-2.jpg) in his book Connecting chords with linear harmony. I also practiced different chromatic group (http://www.freejazzinstitute.org/showposts.php?dept=analysis&topic=20080715115804_EdByrne) based on the 3rds and 7th of all chords. Ex: From the 3rd of Bmaj7 to the 7th of the D7 to the 3rd of Gmaj7 to the 7th of the Bb7 : D# D C# B, C A A# C, B Bb A,G, Ab and so on...

Interesting Klink. It seems that at this tempo, I couldn't even tell that.

Now my crazy method is to improvise on it as if it were at 150bpm. Meaning I'm not doing anything different then any other tune so I'm actually trying to play melodically. I also would say that I tend to arpeggiate a lot. I'm realizing that this takes a lot of thinking and my comfort zone is not more than 220.

But this in itself isn't too bad. When I started this, I was doing it at 150.

It is possible that I will never attain 300 here (at least not for awhile) just because I can't think that fast.

Do you have any tips on improving articulation at this tempo? That's what I've been working on for a few days. I can play scales at 300 easily enough. But translated to real moves when blowing, I'm not pleased with the sound.

Break it up with quarter notes and quarter note triplets I guess is a good strategy. As to articulation I'm not sure, I don't think I manage it that well. What I've been doing lately is learning "Line up" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEBHSFuW_Bk) by Lennie Tristano, masterful articulation at high speed, hopefully some of it slipped in somewhere...

Thanks Klink. Line Up is amazing. I have that CD. Such control of accents! You're using a good example for sure. Maybe I'll practice snippets of it.

Someone here once said that to improve articulation, practice with staccatto playing. Anybody have an opinion on that?

A fast tune that I was practicing for a couple of months was Matrix. I think I'll go back to some of that, although Chick's articulation is much more detached.

BTW - Anybody have any interesting reharms of Here's that Rainy Day? If so, post some changes.

I was on vacation but I resumed with practicing the GS 1235 patterns like Klink outlined. It was good for just focusing on improving articulation too since it's a pattern. Frankly, I didn't mind doing it because when I actually played GS, I didn't rely on the pattern anyway.

I'm looking to start some new tune but in the absence of anything else challenging, I started playing around with Spain. This tune isn't difficult from a changes point of view but I realized it's another one of these challenging tempos where it's typically played with a chockfull of sixteenths. I've been interested in it from a solo piano point of view, maybe after watching youtubes of kids like Gadi play it solo.

hey guys...been busy with stuff and life, but thought I'd pop in. How's the playing going? Just landed a few more gigs so happy with that. Have to throw in some pop/rock tunes in my repertoire, haha.

Hey here's a new topic:

Altered Dominant chords


Where and how to use them? I was going through a transcription of Keith Jarrett's intro to My funny valentine, and he throws in tons of those alt chords, seemingly at random. They aren't tritone subs, but just replaces the usual chord.

So, the tune's in C-, there's a sequence which goes D7 alt, G7 alt, Cm-7, Ab7 alt, G sus....

So he's replacing the D -, Ab with alts. Of course the G is the normal 5th chord. But it seems you can throw in other ones and it will sound ok.

What's neat too is the specific alteration. Sometimes it's just a #9 or #11, or he likes the b9/b5 together. A great dissonant chord.

And he uses it in inner voicings alot, playing the melody note and then playing the chord a split second after.

Well that's what I'm working on. Jazz festival is coming up so time to see all the shows!

Hi wiz
Interesting, I actually don't mind the sound of the b9 with a b5 chord depending on the voicing - you're right about some voicings sounding very dissonant.
I really like Keith's "My Funny Valentine" and also "Never Let Me Go" the other ballad on the Tokyo album, they initially got me into jazz a little more than a year ago.

Re gigs, I'm assuming you're from Oz, where in Sydney can I listen to live jazz which has a strong swing, like the old masters Lennie Tristano ?

Hey Wiz, although I've learned to substitute Alt chords with Dominants a long time ago, it hasn't been automatic to my playing until I worked on Chick Corea's Matrix. Since a blues is all dominants, he uses it A LOT. Practically as a substitute to every other dominant chord. You don't hear a lot of Alts in old bebop so much where everything tends to be diatonic except for a little chromatic on the bebop scale.

With modern Jazz players, the use of Alt substitutions is much more frequent I find. And until I actually heard and transcribed other guys like Kenny Werner using Alt, I thought this was just theory. And of course my teacher plays Alts heavily too.

Using Alt dominants is tied to diminished cycle voicings which is another topic.

But in general, when you see a Dominant and substitute an Alt voicing, you play the Half-Whole Diminished scale (or play a diminished scale half a step up -- starting at the b9).

A simplification of an alt voicing: When I want to play an Alt voicing, often all you need as extensions are the #5 and #9 or #5 and b9. Often just two are needed. A cluster voicing including b9,#9,b5/#11,#5 is a bit much and can be explored in the solo line itself.

Phrased a little differently, you know that an Alt is just a Tritone substitute right? So C7 can be substituted with an F#7. But in practice, a full F#7 rootless voicing isn't required here. Even a single Alt extension note can be pretty strong, I find, if it's the lower note of the voicing (like b9 is very typical).

Well this thread seems to finally have died a death
So as a farewell I shall leave with something I recorded today
Some free improvisation ballad style

http://www.divshare.com/download/12002511-73f

Beeboss that was amazing!

Beautiful beeboss, a fitting epitath...

Beeboss, excellent! Hopefully, this thread is NOT dead - even though I am a virtual newbie at this jazz thing, I've learned SO much from all of you. So, I'll just think of your improv as a transition piece instead of an epitaph.