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#1475301 - 07/16/10 02:24 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 281
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
So, if I'm understanding correctly, you would use this software to program and configure the QRS hardware, but you do not need to be running the software all of the time. Correct?


Spot on. Once you've configured it, you don't need to fire up the software.

The software has NO documentation AT ALL. Nada. You either have to figure out for yourself what the parameters mean, or you have to call MIDI9 and ask them to guide you step by step through the telephone, or email.


Edited by electone2007 (07/16/10 02:30 AM)

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#1475302 - 07/16/10 02:25 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 281
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music


Is the mute rail Yamaha factory installed or a third party add-on? Thanks.


Factory.

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#1475303 - 07/16/10 02:28 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 281
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

One dealer I spoke with recommended the QRS PNOScan for the MIDI and Pianodisc for the mute rail.

Would this work? http://www.pianodisc.com/products/details.aspx?id=69261



In fact, I've been through this route. I called PianoDisc time and again for a quote for their mute rail, but they kept referring me to the dealer located in my country. The local dealer always says she'd get back to me but she never did. So I gave up.

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#1475356 - 07/16/10 07:34 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: electone2007]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: electone2007


Of course, I've already asked QRS for an upright hammer stopper but they said they don't have it. No mention also of assembly on demand. They told me they'll get back to me once they have one available for uprights.

My Yamaha upright has a mute rail. But, of course, if you engage it, it affects touch very significantly and this screws up the velocity curve configuration. It doesn't work for me.


You've stated elsewhere that your mute rail is factory installed. It seems very strange to me that a Yamaha factory installed mute rail wouldn't work properly.

Do you have the following installed, or something else?

"Yamaha QuickEscapeâ„¢ Action and Piano Mute Rail
When you engage the Piano Mute Rail, the hammers will not strike the strings, allowing you to play MIDI sounds or the onboard digital voices without hearing the acoustic piano. The exclusive QuickEscape action mechanism provides a consistent touch in either the piano mute mode or acoustic mode. These two features instantly convert the Silent Piano into the perfect MIDI controller or multi-track recording instrument."

I'm wondering why you would have factory installed mute rail, but not factory installed MIDI? There really isn't any point, is there, to a mute rail being installed with no MIDI being installed? (By mute rail, I'm meaning you engage it, and only hear the action of the piano, not to be confused with the muffler where felt is added between the hammers and strings, so it is softer, but you still hear the piano sound. Are we talking about the same thing here?)

Thanks so much! You seem to be the only other person on PW wanting to control digital keyboards / sampled pianos with an acoustic piano!

Lawrence


Edited by Melodialworks Music (07/16/10 07:45 AM)
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1475431 - 07/16/10 10:20 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: Melodialworks Music]
electone2007 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 281
Loc: Philippines
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: electone2007


Of course, I've already asked QRS for an upright hammer stopper but they said they don't have it. No mention also of assembly on demand. They told me they'll get back to me once they have one available for uprights.

My Yamaha upright has a mute rail. But, of course, if you engage it, it affects touch very significantly and this screws up the velocity curve configuration. It doesn't work for me.


You've stated elsewhere that your mute rail is factory installed. It seems very strange to me that a Yamaha factory installed mute rail wouldn't work properly.

Do you have the following installed, or something else?

"Yamaha QuickEscapeâ„¢ Action and Piano Mute Rail
When you engage the Piano Mute Rail, the hammers will not strike the strings, allowing you to play MIDI sounds or the onboard digital voices without hearing the acoustic piano. The exclusive QuickEscape action mechanism provides a consistent touch in either the piano mute mode or acoustic mode. These two features instantly convert the Silent Piano into the perfect MIDI controller or multi-track recording instrument."

I'm wondering why you would have factory installed mute rail, but not factory installed MIDI? There really isn't any point, is there, to a mute rail being installed with no MIDI being installed? (By mute rail, I'm meaning you engage it, and only hear the action of the piano, not to be confused with the muffler where felt is added between the hammers and strings, so it is softer, but you still hear the piano sound. Are we talking about the same thing here?)

Thanks so much! You seem to be the only other person on PW wanting to control digital keyboards / sampled pianos with an acoustic piano!

Lawrence


Hi, Lawrence!

We're not on the same page here. Cy and I were talking about a felt mute rail, not a hammer shank stopper like what you are describing. He said: "It's also possible to get felt mute rails and add them on. They don't cut the sound 100%, but it's something you can add yourself. I've also installed this device."

My factory installed felt strip mute rail works perfectly as intended, but since it doesn't cut off the sound 100%, it doesn't work for me.

Not to discourage you, but in my experience, the best way to control a piano instrument through MIDI would be through a digital piano hammer action keyboard, rather than an acoustic piano rigged up to spit MIDI data. The inconvenience of installing, configuring, regulating, mating velocity curve, and looking for a hammer shank stopper that works takes the joy out of the whole endeavor. Add to that the fact that no matter how you tweak PNOScan's velocity curve, it just doesn't give a response as good as a digital piano. That's just my experience. But who knows, you might be lucky.

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#1475447 - 07/16/10 10:48 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: electone2007]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: electone2007

We're not on the same page here. Cy and I were talking about a felt mute rail, not a hammer shank stopper like what you are describing. He said: "It's also possible to get felt mute rails and add them on. They don't cut the sound 100%, but it's something you can add yourself. I've also installed this device."

My factory installed felt strip mute rail works perfectly as intended, but since it doesn't cut off the sound 100%, it doesn't work for me.

Not to discourage you, but in my experience, the best way to control a piano instrument through MIDI would be through a digital piano hammer action keyboard, rather than an acoustic piano rigged up to spit MIDI data. The inconvenience of installing, configuring, regulating, mating velocity curve, and looking for a hammer shank stopper that works takes the joy out of the whole endeavor. Add to that the fact that no matter how you tweak PNOScan's velocity curve, it just doesn't give a response as good as a digital piano. That's just my experience. But who knows, you might be lucky.


I'm hopeful that the Yamaha Silent Piano will be the solution - in which case there would be no "nstalling, configuring, regulating, mating velocity curve, and looking for a hammer shank stopper that works"! However, I'll of course, have to test it first.

My original plan was to use the Yamaha Avantgrand (N3) as a controller - nice Yamaha grand action, but it failed the test. Internally it uses greater resolution (which is one reason why is plays so well) but I guess when it is reduced down to the 127 MIDI levels (for MIDI OUT) something significant is lost. I found that when using the Avantgrand as a controller, I couldn't get soft enough or loud enough. This was having the Avantgrand and Roland keyboards directly connected. Possibly routing through a computer using Cubase, some velocity magic could be used. However, I can't possibly spend the $ required for Avantgrand (or Acoustic Piano with MIDI) for something that POSSIBLY might work. I have to KNOW that it will work.

So, my next option has been to consider acoustic pianos with MIDI added. (I actually hadn't even realized that this was possible). However, apart from the possible solution of Yamaha Silent Piano, this increasingly seems to not offer the solution I'm seeking. Bottom line is that I'd like to have the nice piano action to control my digital keyboard / sampled sounds.

I feel like I'm spinning my wheels . . .
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1475472 - 07/16/10 11:16 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: electone2007]
hv Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/18/04
Posts: 1240
Loc: Cape Cod
Got a Pianodisc myself and I can tell you the recording strip added a slight bit of extra weighting to the keys after installation and that the midi-pedal recording is indeed on/off. Which were pluses for me because I thought the key weighting was a little on the light side to start with. And my primary application is playback on the same acoustic instrument with occasional usage of high-end sample libraries. Neither of which benefit from continuous controller-styled pedal position data.

But if your primary intent is playing a Roland (or Yamaha) piano module, sounds like the QRS system would be a better fit for you because it generates pedal controller data these modules respond to. Btw, if what you're after is just using the Piano action to play the sound module, another possibility would be to remove the strings and harp from the piano rather than putting in a mute rail.

Howard

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#1477658 - 07/20/10 07:35 AM Re: Adding MIDI: Which is Better? Pianodisc or QRS Pnoscan? [Re: hv]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: hv
Btw, if what you're after is just using the Piano action to play the sound module, another possibility would be to remove the strings and harp from the piano rather than putting in a mute rail.


Actually, I'd like to do both (a) use the piano action as a MIDI controller, and (b) use the piano action to play the actual acoustic instrument. The best of both worlds is the goal!
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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