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#1479844 - 07/23/10 12:13 PM Piano Corner stagnant
btb Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 4261
Loc: Pretoria South Africa
Must blame myself for not coming up with some fresh topic worthy of debate ...
but at the moment Piano corner seems to have gone stagnant.

At the moment we munch on the toughest morsels

1. Invitation to go on a musical tour of Europe ... 0
2. Schumann recital ... stewing endlessly
3. Prodigy thread has disintegrated into advice of a good pizza
4. The rubbishing of Schoenberg hasn’t attracted many clowns
5. Scriabin takes a knock ... fades at 2
6. Ravel Concerto dies ... 0
7. Pedalling closes down ... 2
8. Beethoven melodies keeps the flags flying at 42 ... hurrah!!
9. Cranky tuning of a violin is prodded to 12
10. Zhang concert is outdated at 42
11. Liutsa dissipates
12. Most difficult pieces can’t keep up steam

With such clever chaps out there ... surely it’s possible to come up with more challenging threads

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#1479852 - 07/23/10 12:22 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: btb]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
13. The stagnant topic sits there...stagnant as well.

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#1479860 - 07/23/10 12:35 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
If looking at it like that, just about every topic that pops up would be stagnant....let's talk about the Rach 3!

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#1479866 - 07/23/10 12:39 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jdhampton924]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Complaining but not doin anything about it is surely the way to go.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1479868 - 07/23/10 12:40 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jdhampton924]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: jdhampton924
If looking at it like that, just about every topic that pops up would be stagnant....let's talk about the Rach 3!



No, let's talk about Rach 1!

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#1479870 - 07/23/10 12:41 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
YES Rach 1!!! Just started learning it. The second movement is nothing short of addicting - Rachmaninoff is the master of harmonic progressions.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1479874 - 07/23/10 12:50 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Pogorelich.]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Just listened to the Rach one again after a while yesterday, a friend of mine and fellow pianist is dying to learn it. Angelina you are correct the harmonic progressions in the concerto are nothing short of genius.

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#1479875 - 07/23/10 12:51 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: btb]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
I think part of it might be the new site that one of our members started and 'advertised' on here.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1479876 - 07/23/10 12:52 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Pogorelich.]
AdlerAugen Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 200
Loc: Hawaii
Hmmm I don't think I've heard the Rach 1 in its entirety. I should do that this weekend with my good friend, Naxos.
_________________________
-Piano Instructor since 2008-

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#1479935 - 07/23/10 02:27 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Pogorelich.]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich
YES Rach 1!!! Just started learning it. The second movement is nothing short of addicting - Rachmaninoff is the master of harmonic progressions.


oooh awesome! I've been trying to decide what concerto to learn but there's too many good ones. I really love that one though...great harmony and melody too!

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#1479941 - 07/23/10 02:39 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 2606
Loc: Manchester, UK
These forums need more visitors in general. I think we should all make an effort to introduce at least one other person. :P

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#1479942 - 07/23/10 02:40 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: btb]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Where, O where is Nyiregyhazi??? We need him to get into a food fight with Keyboardklutz!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1479957 - 07/23/10 03:10 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Speaking of Rach 1 second movement, the ending reminds me of something and I just remembered what: the end of Mendelssohn Op 38 no 6

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#1479959 - 07/23/10 03:18 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
People seem to be avoiding the topic.... smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1479962 - 07/23/10 03:23 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17957
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
People seem to be avoiding the topic.... smile


... because it's stagnant.
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1479965 - 07/23/10 03:28 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto

No, let's talk about Rach 1!


Magnificent piece! I love it so much! I like it better than Grieg's (the one it was based off of), especially the gnarly intro and cadenza and just the overall drama in the first movement. I still can't believe he wrote it when he was my age... That's the first concerto I listened through all 3 movements. smile

Quote:
These forums need more visitors in general. I think we should all make an effort to introduce at least one other person. :P


I could probably get many people to join. laugh (Well, a few.) I'll start spreading the word!


Edited by Orange Soda King (07/23/10 03:55 PM)

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#1479971 - 07/23/10 03:36 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto

No, let's talk about Rach 1!

Or we could talk about Lang Lang... whome

Failing that, how many here like anchovies on their pizza? (yummy)
_________________________
Jason

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#1479980 - 07/23/10 03:50 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
People seem to be avoiding the topic.... smile

... because it's stagnant.

....and difficult.

BTW.....I had noticed too that the forum has been much less active lately. A lot of it is probably just "summer," but I think that other thing is involved too.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1479982 - 07/23/10 03:51 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
The revised version (the one that most people know) postdates the Third Piano Concerto. The little known original version comes from his conservatory years and uses (mostly) the same thematic material, but is basically an entirely different composition.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

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#1479986 - 07/23/10 03:57 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
The revised version (the one that most people know) postdates the Third Piano Concerto. The little known original version comes from his school years and uses (mostly) the same thematic material, but is basically an entirely different composition.


I didn't realize it was so different. Do people ever play the original?

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#1479987 - 07/23/10 03:59 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto

No, let's talk about Rach 1!

Or we could talk about Lang Lang... whome


haha I think that smiley says it all.

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#1479988 - 07/23/10 03:59 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
Little_Blue_Engine Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/30/09
Posts: 1233
Loc: Ohio, US
I think things like this go in cycles. Give it some time, things will pick back up. I'll have peperoni and mushrooms on mine please...
_________________________
I'll figure it out eventually.
Until then you may want to keep a safe distance.


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#1479994 - 07/23/10 04:10 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
The revised version (the one that most people know) postdates the Third Piano Concerto. The little known original version comes from his school years and uses (mostly) the same thematic material, but is basically an entirely different composition.


I didn't realize it was so different. Do people ever play the original?
Rarely. The original version (both full score and reduction) is on IMSLP, so you can play it for yourself.
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Top
#1479995 - 07/23/10 04:12 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Yes I have seen that, thanks.

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#1480007 - 07/23/10 04:28 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19277
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I'll start spreading the word!
Maybe you could do a a version of this song on Youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=new+york+new+york+liza+minelli&aq=2


Just use PW, PW instead of you know what.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/23/10 04:29 PM)

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#1480025 - 07/23/10 04:52 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: pianoloverus]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
pianoloverus, you are my favorite person on this thread. Your contributions are amazing, but you also have one of the best senses of humor.

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#1480038 - 07/23/10 05:06 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Where, O where is Nyiregyhazi??? We need him to get into a food fight with Keyboardklutz!

He was banned. Need some drama? Watch Madmen this Sunday on AMC. I know I'll be watching.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1480047 - 07/23/10 05:16 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: eweiss]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Why was he banned?
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

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#1480051 - 07/23/10 05:20 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Elissa Milne]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
Why was he banned?

For writing 5000 words on hand tension. I kid. I don't know. Probably for arguing. You know, that old chestnut. smile
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1480062 - 07/23/10 05:31 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: eweiss]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
I think it's the banning of the "edgy" types that's causing this descent into stagnation. A vibrant forum needs the occasional flame war. grin
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1480067 - 07/23/10 05:43 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Stagnation? You don't find 'Arcosonic Wood Stickers' fascinating? I could read about that forever.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1480104 - 07/23/10 06:52 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
I think it's the banning of the "edgy" types that's causing this descent into stagnation. A vibrant forum needs the occasional flame war. grin

I agree, although not necessarily with that last part. But then again I think you don't either. ha
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1480133 - 07/23/10 07:36 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
newport Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/27/05
Posts: 492
Don't worry, the Chopin competiton is starting soon
_________________________
Chopin Op.51
John

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#1480167 - 07/23/10 08:57 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: newport]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
goat cheese and artichokes is good. Mmmmm hungry!

Maybe I should ask that beethoven question about slurs...
_________________________

Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1480171 - 07/23/10 09:12 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Canonie]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Canonie
Maybe I should ask that beethoven question about slurs...

Now, now, no racial slurs or you'll be banned!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1480224 - 07/23/10 11:01 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
I like edgy members here. They shouldn't be banned.. Just have their posts deleted if it REALLY comes to it.

Actually I'm a bit surprised I am still here.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

Top
#1480229 - 07/23/10 11:10 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Pogorelich.]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich

Actually I'm a bit surprised I am still here.

As Arnie says: 'schteek around!'
_________________________
Jason

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#1480239 - 07/23/10 11:29 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Janus K. Sachs Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: Betelgeuse, baby!
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?
_________________________
Die Krebs gehn zurcke,
Die Stockfisch bleiben dicke,
Die Karpfen viel fressen,
Die Predigt vergessen.

Die Predigt hat g'fallen.
Sie bleiben wie alle.

Top
#1480241 - 07/23/10 11:32 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Pogorelich.]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich

Actually I'm a bit surprised I am still here.

That's because you're a girl. They never ban girls. Gender discrimination, I call it! grin
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1480242 - 07/23/10 11:33 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Emanuel Ravelli Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 685
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto

No, let's talk about Rach 1!

Or we could talk about Lang Lang... whome

Failing that, how many here like anchovies on their pizza? (yummy)


I could give you my wife's email address. She loves 'em. My sons and I leave the house when she indulges this atrocious passion, but the cats follow her around endlessly, hoping for whatever is the anchovy equivalent of table scraps.
_________________________
Phil Bjorlo

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#1480268 - 07/24/10 12:32 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4528
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: AngelinaPogorelich

Actually I'm a bit surprised I am still here.

That's because you're a girl. They never ban girls. Gender discrimination, I call it! grin


Good for me wink
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1480275 - 07/24/10 12:43 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?

Well I'm not missing them, Scripture or whatever. I do miss sottovoce -his posts were often fun and sometimes very enlightening- but this very intelligent man got a bit carried away with excess (not that I ever do blush ), and he finally crossed the Rubicon. Rather a pity. Once permanently banished, no return.
_________________________
Jason

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#1480277 - 07/24/10 12:46 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Emanuel Ravelli]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli

I could give you my wife's email address. She loves 'em. My sons and I leave the house when she indulges this atrocious passion, but the cats follow her around endlessly, hoping for whatever is the anchovy equivalent of table scraps.

LOL laugh I think I've only met one other person besides myself who absolutely goes bonkers over anchovies on pizza.

Now pineapple on pizza -oh the perfidy- is something else, and I shudder at the thought.
_________________________
Jason

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#1480280 - 07/24/10 12:46 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Well I'm not missing them, Scripture or whatever. I do miss sottovoce -his posts were often fun and sometimes very enlightening- but this very intelligent man got a bit carried away with excess (not that I ever do blush ), and he finally crossed the Rubicon. Rather a pity. Once permanently banished, no return.

....and Steven?
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1480293 - 07/24/10 01:15 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I think part of it might be the new site that one of our members started and 'advertised' on here.
I don't think so, actually. It's a pretty small affair.
Maybe people are busy. I know I am. I should be practising for tomorrow's concert right now...
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1480295 - 07/24/10 01:17 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?
Well I'm not missing them, Scripture or whatever.
Me neither! But yes, I do miss Steven/sotto voce.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1480299 - 07/24/10 01:21 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: currawong
....tomorrow's concert right now...

Concert tomorrow???
Cool!!!
And good luck!!
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1480303 - 07/24/10 01:28 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: currawong
....tomorrow's concert right now...

Concert tomorrow???
Cool!!!
And good luck!!
Thanks smile Nice program, me + two singers. Unfortunately a tricky moment looming with a difficult Hugo Wolf song I know well, only this time in a different key. aaaaugh! Different fingering required, short notice. Panic.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1480305 - 07/24/10 01:30 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19742
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: currawong
.....Unfortunately a tricky moment looming with a difficult Hugo Wolf song I know well, only this time in a different key. aaaaugh! Different fingering required, short notice. Panic.

Don't worry. In music like that, it doesn't matter what notes you play. ha
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1480308 - 07/24/10 01:35 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5924
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Don't worry. In music like that, it doesn't matter what notes you play. ha
ha indeed. If it were only so! Do you know Ich hab in Penna einen Liebsten wohnen from the Italian Songbook of Wolf, by any chance? It has this insane postlude for piano solo where you riot up and down the keyboard molto allegro. And I'd finally nailed it in F major, too. Off to practise it in E flat...
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1480309 - 07/24/10 01:35 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: currawong
.....Unfortunately a tricky moment looming with a difficult Hugo Wolf song I know well, only this time in a different key. aaaaugh! Different fingering required, short notice. Panic.

Don't worry. In music like that, it doesn't matter what notes you play. ha

ha ha Mark. The piano accompaniments in Wolf are a nightmare. I've only played a few of them, much prefer the safer havens of Brahms and Strauss.
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#1480313 - 07/24/10 01:45 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Canonie Offline
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Currawong
Well I hope you don't accidentally slip back into F major under the pressure of performance. I know I would shocked
Hope it goes well and back to practising with you!
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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
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#1480314 - 07/24/10 01:45 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: currawong]
Mark_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: currawong
.....It has this insane postlude for piano solo where you riot up and down the keyboard molto allegro. And I'd finally nailed it in F major, too. Off to practise it in E flat...

Just play the regular version and add a low Eb at the end. smile
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#1480321 - 07/24/10 01:53 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
Canonie Offline
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Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: currawong
.....It has this insane postlude for piano solo where you riot up and down the keyboard molto allegro. And I'd finally nailed it in F major, too. Off to practise it in E flat...

Just play the regular version and add a low Eb at the end. smile

No Mark, it's the postlude. Currawong should play a little chord progression eg Eb - Cm - C (not very subtle I know) - then straight into the postlude in F. They'll think you spontaneously created a butt-saving improvisation and be extremely impressed. Either that or they will see as a desperate and pathetic gaffatape style solution to your technical difficulties Haha
You could add Marks low Eb at the very end as well, yes that's quite a good idea after all.
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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
Alex Ross.

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#1480323 - 07/24/10 01:55 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: currawong]
btb Offline
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Registered: 01/21/04
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Well chaps,

See what you can do if you’re not careful ...
to enliven the present dreary Pianist Corner menu.

Here are your bright ideas ... obviously off the top of your moggy crusts

Rach 3
Not doin’ anything
Rach 1
Need more visitors
More bun-fights for klutz
Avoiding the topic ... because it’s stagnant
Lang Lang and anchovies on their pizza
A lot of it is probably just "summer"
peperoni and mushrooms
I think it's the banning of the "edgy" types
You don't find 'Arcosonic Wood Stickers' fascinating?
goat cheese and artichokes is good
pineapple on pizza
Maybe people are busy.

Perhaps it’s time to get out my golf clubs and relish the 19th.
You chaps are in a dopey state of Rach1/3 pizza inertia ... I’m off ... Fore!!

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#1480325 - 07/24/10 02:00 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: btb]
Mark_C Offline
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Looks like lecture notes from a psych class......
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#1480326 - 07/24/10 02:06 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
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Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Looks like lecture notes from a psych class......

Well maybe it is only 2300 hours on the West Coast, but that gave me a laugh. btb is tracking us, clearly enjoying it. Better than golf I should say...
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#1480339 - 07/24/10 03:07 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Horowitzian Offline
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Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?

Well I'm not missing them, Scripture or whatever. I do miss sottovoce -his posts were often fun and sometimes very enlightening- but this very intelligent man got a bit carried away with excess (not that I ever do blush ), and he finally crossed the Rubicon. Rather a pity. Once permanently banished, no return.


Bjones was sort of tame compared to Antonius Hamus... grin
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#1480343 - 07/24/10 03:15 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Canonie]
currawong Offline
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Originally Posted By: Canonie
Either that or they will see it as a desperate and pathetic gaffatape style solution to your technical difficulties Haha
More likely grin

I'd like to see the singer's face if I did! (Now some singers I've played for wouldn't notice...)
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#1480347 - 07/24/10 03:45 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: currawong]
MikeN Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Don't worry. In music like that, it doesn't matter what notes you play. ha
ha indeed. If it were only so! Do you know Ich hab in Penna einen Liebsten wohnen from the Italian Songbook of Wolf, by any chance? It has this insane postlude for piano solo where you riot up and down the keyboard molto allegro. And I'd finally nailed it in F major, too. Off to practise it in E flat...


Just looked that up(it had to be the last in the second book) at the wholesome tempo of 160 to the crotchet and a 4measure long run in semiquavers I wish you luck.

I'd rather stick my foot down my throat. whome(did he just say that)

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#1480390 - 07/24/10 07:58 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: btb]
TheFool Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/13/10
Posts: 155
Originally Posted By: btb
Must blame myself for not coming up with some fresh topic worthy of debate ...
but at the moment Piano corner seems to have gone stagnant.

At the moment we munch on the toughest morsels

1. Invitation to go on a musical tour of Europe ... 0
2. Schumann recital ... stewing endlessly
3. Prodigy thread has disintegrated into advice of a good pizza
4. The rubbishing of Schoenberg hasn’t attracted many clowns
5. Scriabin takes a knock ... fades at 2
6. Ravel Concerto dies ... 0
7. Pedalling closes down ... 2
8. Beethoven melodies keeps the flags flying at 42 ... hurrah!!
9. Cranky tuning of a violin is prodded to 12
10. Zhang concert is outdated at 42
11. Liutsa dissipates
12. Most difficult pieces can’t keep up steam

With such clever chaps out there ... surely it’s possible to come up with more challenging threads


Nothing guaranteed to induce stagnation like turgid ellipsis(eseses) used to the nth degree.

Kick back and relax while sentence structure and cogent argument trail off unsatisfactorily into a swamp of little dots...

wink
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#1480396 - 07/24/10 08:22 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Damon Offline
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Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli

I could give you my wife's email address. She loves 'em. My sons and I leave the house when she indulges this atrocious passion, but the cats follow her around endlessly, hoping for whatever is the anchovy equivalent of table scraps.

LOL laugh I think I've only met one other person besides myself who absolutely goes bonkers over anchovies on pizza.


I don't go bonkers, but I like anchovies on my pizza.
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#1480430 - 07/24/10 09:55 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Damon]
Andromaque Offline
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Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Emanuel Ravelli

I could give you my wife's email address. She loves 'em. My sons and I leave the house when she indulges this atrocious passion, but the cats follow her around endlessly, hoping for whatever is the anchovy equivalent of table scraps.

LOL laugh I think I've only met one other person besides myself who absolutely goes bonkers over anchovies on pizza.


I don't go bonkers, but I like anchovies on my pizza.



Ay Ay..
Anchovies, black olives and mushrooms here... on a New York thin crust.

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#1480556 - 07/24/10 01:45 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
jdhampton924 Offline
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Registered: 01/13/08
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Loc: Evansville, Indiana
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?

Well I'm not missing them, Scripture or whatever. I do miss sottovoce -his posts were often fun and sometimes very enlightening- but this very intelligent man got a bit carried away with excess (not that I ever do blush ), and he finally crossed the Rubicon. Rather a pity. Once permanently banished, no return.


Soooo...not mention of zombies, or homophobic neo-nazi zombies

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#1480639 - 07/24/10 03:32 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Janus K. Sachs]
stores Offline
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Janus K. Sachs
I'm sure members are hoping for the return of the homophobe and the neo-Nazi. Aren't such things always foretold by scripture?


There haven't been any neo-Nazis around that I've seen, but we do have a homophobe who has made his ignorance known recently.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

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#1480734 - 07/24/10 06:11 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: stores]
Mark_C Offline
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I know who you mean -- and he's a terrific member, though, nonetheless.
Sometimes, as they say, you take the good with the bad. smile

Pardon the silly smilie.....
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#1480735 - 07/24/10 06:16 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: stores]
Damon Offline
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Registered: 09/22/06
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How about communists? Are they OK?
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#1480781 - 07/24/10 08:00 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Damon]
Andromaque Offline
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Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
Damon
What is that quote about? (excuse my ignorance)

The neo-Nazi was the real thing, but he preceded you, stores..

Communists would be welcome. They might bring out the McCarthy in some folks, and that would be fun to watch.


Edited by Andromaque (07/24/10 08:10 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#1480785 - 07/24/10 08:05 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Andromaque]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Damon
What is that quote about? (excuse my ignorance)

The neo-Nazi was the real thing, but it preceded you, stores..

Communists would be welcome. They might bring out the McCarthy in some folks, and that would be fun to watch.



Some of them write awesome music too. Like Shostakovitch. And Khachaturian I guess.

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#1480790 - 07/24/10 08:10 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Andromaque Offline
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Shostakovitch supposedly did not have a choice. Don't know about Aram.

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#1480796 - 07/24/10 08:22 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Andromaque]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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I'm not really sure...but you pretty much couldn't do anything if you weren't in favor with the communist party...

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#1480807 - 07/24/10 08:53 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Shostakovich opposed the regime and was forced to join the communist party. If you read the conversations with his kids, he was crying after being told to join, and the only other time he had cried was when his wife died.

Prokofiev could care less about communism, though he was severely attacked by Zhdanov in 1948.

Oistrakh and Gilels joined the communist party, though if you ask those who knew him (I read and watched a few interviews), they did it out of safety. Richter could care less about politics, but he didn't join the party. Rostropovich was opposed to the regime outright, sent in a very nasty letter to Pravda complaining how the stupid bureaucracy was impeding artistic development in the USSR that was leaked to the outside world, and he went into exile. There's a funny story about how Rostropovich was once given a glass vase as payment for a concert. The Soviet embassy was always supposed to take 80-90% of the money. Rostropovich went to the embassy, threw the vase on the floor, shattering it, picked up 20% of the pieces and then left.

I haven't read much about Khachaturian, but Richter disliked his music (as well as Kabalevsky's). I know Kabalevsky seemed to be more hardcore communist than the others, though Richter and Shostakovich didn't like him either. During a meeting where Lady Macbeth, after being heavily revised, was discussed and Shostakovich performed it for a committee wihch included Kabalevsky, apparently Kabalevsky said some scathing things echoing the infamous "muddle instead of music" article to the composer. Interesting how it was only Kabalevsky that escaped being denounced during the 1948 Zhdanov Decree.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1480817 - 07/24/10 09:16 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Andromaque]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
Shostakovitch supposedly did not have a choice.

He had a choice. He just elected to pull back, join the 'party' and write music which kept him safe. Only in his divine quartets did he reveal his innermost thoughts.

A performance of a Shostakovitch string quartet is almost on the level of Bartok or late Beethoven. Don't ever miss a concert with a Shostakovitch quartet.

Alas, Shostakovitch has been over interpreted. Particularly in NYC -led by the pompous critic Richard Taruskin- we're led to believe that S's quartets contain secret anti-Communist references. The mere fact that people attend a concert with S's quartets puts them in some kind of secret league.

That certainly sells tickets, but I don't go for that. Too easy. Shostakovitch was an undeniably great composer, but let's keep the perspective. He took pot shots at Prokofiev's orchestration, but IMO Shostakovitch's orchestration leaves a lot to be desired with a too prominent emphasis on the woodwinds.

But at least one can identify a Shostakovitch score in about two seconds!

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#1480826 - 07/24/10 09:34 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Kuanpiano]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
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Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Shostakovich opposed the regime and was forced to join the communist party. If you read the conversations with his kids, he was crying after being told to join, and the only other time he had cried was when his wife died.

Nice post Kuanpiano, and interesting input. Thank-you for that.

Not sure that I entirely accept this, though I suppose it all comes down to how we perceive Shostakovich as a simple human looking out for himself, and not the great composer of the quartets.

From what I have read -and not as much as you- there is a lingering impression that S just wanted to be left alone, whatever that took, and whatever compromises were entailed. But this does indeed take us into NYC areas, doesn't it?



Edited by argerichfan (07/24/10 09:43 PM)
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#1480829 - 07/24/10 09:44 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano
Shostakovich opposed the regime and was forced to join the communist party. If you read the conversations with his kids, he was crying after being told to join, and the only other time he had cried was when his wife died.

Nice post Kuanpiano, and interesting input. Thank-you for that.

Not sure that I entirely accept this, though I suppose it all comes down to how we perceive Shostakovich as a simple human looking out for himself, and not the great composer of the quartets.

From what I have read -and not as much as you- there is such a lingering impression that S just wanted to be left alone, whatever that took, and whatever compromises. But this does indeed take us into NYC areas, doesn't it?


Thanks! I did an essay on musicians under the Soviet Union, so that's why I know a bit of stuff about how communism affected music. What we know about Shostakovich's personality was that he was almost a frail person (as Richter comments on how he was always apologizing), and his notorious chain-smoking habits. I think suffering under the regime really took it's toll on him, especially after what happened to him after he was so harshly denounced by Pravda after Stalin apparently attended Lady Macbeth and disliked it. He was attacked by the public, his neighbours, constantly threatened with arrest, and loudspeakers outside his home openly harassing him. I think that's certainly enough to make him want to just hide and isolate himself!

In Shostakovich's music you really see a lot of personal little bits, like how he incorporates his DSCH motif (which symbolizes himself) into some of his most painful music. Apparently his 8th quartet, which holds the official dedication to "the victims of fascism", was actually dedicated to "his own memory", but he was pressured to change the dedication (this coming from his children).

Edit: I just remembered something....(all of these memories from the essay are flooding back...haha). Shortly after being denounced in 1948 by Zhdanov, where he was forced to read out a speech claiming that he had written formalist music to the detriment of the people and stuff, he wrote an extremely blatant attack on the governent (Stalin and Zhdanov) called "Anti-formalist Rayok". I don't know if there are any videos on youtube of it, but I remember seeing an excerpt on the DVD "Shostakovich vs Stalin: the war symphonies". Pretty much, I remember it absolutely mocking Stalin and Zhdanov to no end, quoting parts of Stalin's favourite song "Suliko", and ridiculing everything.

Another funny story about Maria Yudina: Stalin liked her playing so much he ordered her to record a Mozart Piano concerto for him. The government officials took her in the middle of the night and flew her to a recording studio and they produced the record, and Stalin ended up sending twenty thousand roubles to her. Her response? “I am very grateful, Iosef Vissarionovich, for your help. I will pray night and day for you and beg God to forgive you your sins against your people and country. God is merciful, he'll forgive. As for the money, I shall give it to a charity at the church I go to" shocked

If you want any of my primary sources, I think I have most of them on digital copy, so I can share them if you're interested in the subject matter.


Edited by Kuanpiano (07/24/10 10:09 PM)
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1480840 - 07/24/10 10:12 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Kuanpiano]
argerichfan Offline
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Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano

Thanks! I did an essay on musicians under the Soviet Union, so that's why I know a bit of stuff about how communism affected music. What we know about Shostakovich's personality was that he was almost a frail person (as Richter comments on how he was always apologizing), and his notorious chain-smoking habits. I think suffering under the regime really took it's toll on him, especially after what happened to him after he was so harshly denounced by Pravda after Stalin apparently attended Lady Macbeth and disliked it. He was attacked by the public, his neighbours, constantly threatened with arrest, and loudspeakers outside his home openly harassing him. I think that's certainly enough to make him want to just hide and isolate himself!

In Shostakovich's music you really see a lot of personal little bits, like how he incorporates his DSCH motif (which symbolizes himself) into some of his most painful music. Apparently his 8th quartet, which holds the official dedication to "the victims of fascism", was actually dedicated to "his own memory", but he was pressured to change the dedication (this coming from his children).

I quote the above in its entirety because it is so well written. Much to learn there, though it doesn't refute my original feelings, more a case of recalling a stupendous performance of the 4th quartet by the Emerson.

It took a few days to get over it- and I've only heard the 8th on CD! Certainly I knew that S was a very frail person, though with all due respect to you, one would hardly attribute the 7th symphony to a 'frail' person -but that was when he was in better health?- surely you don't think it matches the 8th or 10th?

Not to mention the 4th, and that is pretty much where I sign off. I think it the greatest symphonic composition of Shostakovich. Wasn't that before the big crackdown? I spent a very depressing Sunday afternoon as a 20 year old at a performance of the 14th. Maybe I was just too young, but it was all rather monotonous.

It's okay to talk about death, but I get suspicious when it turns into an obsession.
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#1480844 - 07/24/10 10:16 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Kuanpiano Offline
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Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2139
Loc: Canada
I'm very sorry to say I actually haven't listened to enough of his stuff, only that he's the biggest case for the abuse which the Soviet Union did to its artists!I do know that the 4th symphony was hidden until Stalin's death, since it would provoke another denouncing on his part.

I can say though that I think his 7th symphony is fantastic!! The invasion theme and its repetitions are used to great effect.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Andante Spianato and Grande Polonaise Brillante
Rachmaninoff - Preludes op. 23 nos. 3,4,6, op. 32 no.12
Franck - Violin Sonata

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#1480848 - 07/24/10 10:18 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
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Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
I'm going to see Shostakovich's 11th in the spring, along with Rach 2! I can't wait! laugh

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#1480854 - 07/24/10 10:27 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I'm going to see Shostakovich's 11th in the spring, along with Rach 2! I can't wait! laugh



Ah me too!

Speaking of Shostakovich, I've got to say my favorite piece by him is his 1st piano concerto because in the 4th movement he randomly quotes the Haydn sonata that I'm working on. I laugh every time I hear it.

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#1480866 - 07/24/10 10:45 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Hehe, I saw Conrad Tao (a young pianist pianoloverus is a fan of) perform that with the Lexington Philharmonic last year. I wanted to learn it, but my professor gave me Ravel's Concerto in G. Not complaining. wink

I like the Lexington Philharmonic's new conductor a whole lot, although I really, really, REALLY wish Mei-Ann Chen had taken the job there... I have always said since her concert with them as guest conductor that she made them sound BETTER than the New York Philharmonic (you've heard me say this oh so many times, haha) when I saw them.

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#1480873 - 07/24/10 11:02 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Kabalevsky gets a bad rep from how he acted during Stalin - and it's affected his popularity, I think. Most people like stories about composers who defied the powers-that-be, tried to stand up to the regime, and subversively wrote music with so-called hidden anti-Stalin messages, etc: it's all very heroic and makes a great story, especially when a composer is denounced for writing radical music.
They usually don't like stories about composers who decided their life was more valuable than their musical integrity, which is what Kabalevsky probably figured. The thing about Kabalevsky is that he was probably not affected that much by Stalin's committe cracking down - his music was not that controversial to begin with, so he didn't have that much to fear.

So consequently, you see russian writers who perceive Kabalevsky as being a Stalinist dog, or a betrayer of his fellow composers. I don't know - that's a bit harsh, and it assumes that Kabalevsky vastly changed his compositional style in response to Stalin. It appears that much of the criticism of Kabalevsky and some of the others stem from writers or composers who were having trouble with Stalin's government, and assumed that everyone else should also feel the same way. It became convenient to dismiss some composer's music because of this, and accuse them of non-originality, simply because they weren't adopting the prevailing western notions of the time.

Even though we portray the repression as awful, because of the modern notions that individuals should be able to express themselves at any cost, I think it improved some composers. There is something to be said for wanting to keep a country's music unique, so that it stands out from the rest of the world. Russian music had been slowly losing it's individuality.
I don't know... it's very easy to see it from both sides. Sometimes adversity refines rough stones into diamonds.

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#1480877 - 07/24/10 11:04 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Kuanpiano]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: Kuanpiano


Prokofiev could care less about communism, though he was severely attacked by Zhdanov in 1948.



What Prokoviev did to his 1st wife during this time was absolutely AWFUL. It's probably not well-known, and for good reason - there might be a few less Prokoviev fans out there...

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#1480878 - 07/24/10 11:06 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
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What? The lexphil played that last year? I thought I went to all the piano things...

You better not be complaining.

Yes, yes you do say that quite a lot.

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#1480891 - 07/24/10 11:16 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Yeah! Did you see Dr. Partain play Beethoven's Choral Fantasy or André Laplante play Mozart Piano Concerto in C Major K. 467 (the one I played first movement to in Foster Music Camp recital in 2007)?

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#1480900 - 07/24/10 11:23 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Orange Soda King]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
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Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
I saw Choral Fantasy. That was the first time I went. I totally sat right by you. Dont you remember, lol? I remember hearing about Andre Laplante on the radio but I didn't see it.

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#1480932 - 07/25/10 12:21 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
In his recent Richter biography, Karl Aage Rasmussen discusses musical life in the Soviet Union very extensively, including Shostakovich's ordeal. It is far more complicated than people usually acknowledge. The Soviets could alter music scores, send pianists to shovel coal in the Gulags and deprive individuals of their livelihood by banning them from any performance or teaching jobs(check with Vladimir Feltsman). Even Richter, enfant terrible as he might have been, had no choice but to play at Stalin's funeral.
In fact Richter and many colleagues say that they have always considered Shostakovich' music to represent an autobiography of his hatred towards Stalin.In brief, the situation was quite complex and does not lend itself to snap judgments.
I highly recommend that book by the way (Northeastern University Press).

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#1480936 - 07/25/10 12:23 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Andromaque]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: Andromaque
In his recent Richter biography, Karl Aage Rasmussen discusses musical life in the Soviet Union very extensively, including Shostakovich's ordeal. It is far more complicated than people usually acknowledge. The Soviets could alter music scores, send pianists to shovel coal in the Gulags and deprive individuals of their livelihood by banning them from any performance or teaching jobs(check with Vladimir Feltsman). Even Richter, enfant terrible as he might have been, had no choice but to play at Stalin's funeral.
In fact Richter and many colleagues say that they have always considered Shostakovich' music to represent an autobiography of his hatred towards Stalin.In brief, the situation was quite complex and does not lend itself to snap judgments.
I highly recommend that book by the way (Northeastern University Press).


Yes, Vladimir Feltsman finally escaped Russia at one point, and I had the privilege of seeing him perform here in the United States. Quite the concert, that was! It was the first time I heard the Rite Of Spring, as well - talk about an eye-opening concert.

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#1480947 - 07/25/10 01:02 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
tomasino Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 2039
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Before we get further upset about the soviets and Shostokovich, maybe we should become aware that we in the west had our own cold war repressions. We might ask whatever happened to those Whitmanesque musical celebrants of American Democracy, the likes of Mark Blitstein, Ray Harris, William Schuman, and the lone survivor, Aaron Copeland? The high and the low point of Copeland's career was "Connotations," commissioned for the opening of Lincoln Center in, I think, 1961--the high point because he mooned that western cold war audience and gave them a resounding dodecaphonic raspberry. Aaron will always be my hero for that magnificent gesture, even as the critics attempt to trivialize him, even as they accuse him of confecting false american idioms and pastiches. When he gave those ba...rds the bird, it was an all American Bronx Cheer. Viva Aaron Copeland.

But it was also the low point, because"Connotations" signaled that that group of composers was no longer ideologically acceptable in the west, and was to be replaced...replaced by Carter, Babbit and Cage, and the like. What an f...ing hollow victory that was. Music by mathematics, or music without music at all, or by the rules of chance, notes chosen by the casting of sticks, no heart, no soul, music umperformable, or not in need of performance because the music was a repressive and insulting silence, music without an audience, music which turned up its nose to the very idea of human love. Music eviscerated. Music in search of itself and finding nothing.

So in the denial of the reality of our own cold war experience, we get upset about the soviets. Damn, damn and triple damn, the soviets, in spite of their methods of repression, left the nation with a music the Russion nation seems to love, while we in the west have music from the cold war period that leaves us, well...cold...as cold as a mathematical formula. We prefer Shostokovich.

I'm well aware that most readers have no idea what I'm talking about, yet this happened right here in the west, and some of us are old enough to have lived through it--and it's a scandal. Oh, we know all sorts of things about the soviets, and in great detail--we talk about their failings as if we lived and experienced the soviet union ourselves, even though is was ten or fifteen thousand miles away and distorted by mammoth disinformation campaigns shooting both ways that are still in play. We seem to know about them, but not about us.

Just thought I'd stop by to stink the place up a bit before I retreat for another two months or so.

Tomasino
(previously disguised as a mild mannered liberal).
_________________________
"Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do so with all thy might." Ecclesiastes 9:10


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#1480980 - 07/25/10 04:37 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: tomasino]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
You have all been busy today I see, wow, pretty interesting stuff to read before bed!!

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#1481018 - 07/25/10 08:13 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
I saw Choral Fantasy. That was the first time I went. I totally sat right by you. Dont you remember, lol? I remember hearing about Andre Laplante on the radio but I didn't see it.


Oh. I'm very forgetful... Well, the only thing that would have made the Chen/Laplante concert better is if he played a bigger romantic concerto, but that's okay.

This spring is going to be the best! laugh

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#1481036 - 07/25/10 09:31 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: tomasino]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2622
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: tomasino

I'm well aware that most readers have no idea what I'm talking about, yet this happened right here in the west, and some of us are old enough to have lived through it--and it's a scandal.

Kind sir, would you please elaborate...because you're right, most of us don't know what you're talking about! Expand! expound! elaborate! educate us!
_________________________
"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1481097 - 07/25/10 11:26 AM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: jazzyprof]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: tomasino

I'm well aware that most readers have no idea what I'm talking about, yet this happened right here in the west, and some of us are old enough to have lived through it--and it's a scandal.

Kind sir, would you please elaborate...because you're right, most of us don't know what you're talking about! Expand! expound! elaborate! educate us!


Hans Eisler is another good example - he was a composer that had an international reputation for using music for political ends, communistic ends, and he was very vocal about it. He was brought up before the committee on UnAmerican Activities at one point. Though he defended himself against the charges (it's amazing how the committee bought his arguments at the time) he was finally nailed on technical charges.

He was the first hollywood artist brought before the committee, if I remember correctly. This was back in 1947.

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#1481198 - 07/25/10 02:42 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mattardo]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Nothing in tomasino's post contradicts what I have read. Much of this ground is covered in the books of Noam Chomsky, and I would urge anyone with an open mind to check them out. Be warned: they don't make easy reading. And one does tend to see the flag in a different light.
_________________________
Jason

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#1481282 - 07/25/10 05:10 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: argerichfan]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Noam has some interesting reading at times, though I don't agree with everything he says.

I especially like his thoughts on sports being a replacement for gladiatorial events - a convenient way to let your citizens expend their testosterone and brain power on a harmless endeavor, rather than using them to start a revolt, or make serious changes in government. The regularity of sports is also something that makes for a concrete grounding to some people's lives, something they don't want to upset by being activists.

Frank Herbert had a similar idea in God Emporer of Dune - when he allowed the citizens to have their little religious riots, which would expend a lot of violence - with little effect on the overall stability of the society.

Are there any specific books you reccomend, Jason?

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#1481326 - 07/25/10 06:08 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mattardo]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
I've always thought that American football is a modern form of gladiatorial combat. Where else can you cream someone without getting arrested for assault? grin As far as American sports go, baseball >>> football. smile
_________________________
Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1481413 - 07/25/10 08:51 PM Re: Piano Corner stagnant [Re: Mattardo]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8860
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mattardo

Are there any specific books you reccomend, Jason?

Hi Mattardo,

Two books I would start with: 'Hegemony or Survival' and the subsequent book, 'What We Say Goes'.

The latter makes for embarrassing reading. There is a lot on the US involvement in Latin America, and how the US has systematically undermined every single attempt at democracy in Latin America. The US has always supported the most brutal dictators (memories of Indonesia?), and has even tried to undermine the Catholic Church's attempt to help the citizens of those countries.

US Big Business can only thrive under a dictator with the backing of US dollars. Americans need to understand that their 'freedoms' and plush way of life come at a terrible price to the rest of the planet. But nothing new there, eh? Look at the British Empire.

For all that, no one forced me to move to the US back in April, and in early July no one forced me to apply for citizenship. Obviously there were some extremely powerful factors involved. At 27 I made a life changing decision to leave the UK and jump-start my life. How many people here have done something so drastic? I gave up everything, took the train to Heathrow with only two suitcases (plus my laptop!) and took British Airways flight 49 to the US. I will not be returning to the UK.
_________________________
Jason

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