Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Can a prodigy be "made"?

When I was originally posting the remark about lady gaga, I just ment it seemed absurd to call her a prodigy, because she was not a little kid, and did not show all that much musical talent. Some disagree, I know a few people who will fight to the death to say she is the greatest thing out there.

I think your assesment is a bit wrong, not everyone wants to be a pop star. I look at pop music in a different light. Pop music, comes from the same traditions as western classical. The same scales and notation is used for the most part. Pop music overall is very watered down compared to classical, but instantly accessible.

There have always been boy bands, even as far back as the fifties and the sixties, bands that were made because the members looked good. There are articles from session musicians staing that sometimes in the sixties they would hire session musicians to come in and play the album to records for these bands. Now we have computers to do this for us.

All that being said , my only point was not start is lady gaga talented arguement, that would never end, but to say, doubtful she is a prodigy.

You're the person who wants to go to Juilliard, aren't you? And
this question presumably is related to that goal.

My impression of Juilliard is that they are looking for star
quality over and above everything else. They get their pick
every yr. from thousands of highly proficient pianists, but
I believe that they will go with the person with star quality
over another who is better technically. For example, if you
look like Richard Gere and your playing is state university
level, I believe that not only will you get in over hundreds
of better players, you'll get in on a full ride, and they'll
put you with the best teacher, who will whip you into something
resembling a concert pianist.

... and that "belief" is supported by what facts or by what evidence?

nothing to see here, move along .....

Why is it that every time I read a post by Gyro, I have "In the Hall of the Mountain King" playing in my head?

Actually in his (?) own unique way, gyro brings up an insightful point. Places like Juilliard get a bazillion audition "tapes" a year. I'm assuming (and this may be a bad assumption) that for the 5% that they end up choosing, that while a few might be "obvious" purely from a performance standpoint, that there are many that don't necessarily stand head and shoulders above the others. Given that, what types of other criteria are they likely to utilize when trying to decide between two applicants that are roughly equal in performance abilities? This actually applies to getting into many top tier colleges when you have more students that meet the objective criteria than there are spaces for. So for the Juilliard's and Curtis' of the world, what "other" things should one attempt to beef up to increase their chances of admittance?

- competition results
- prestigious or notable performances
- specialization (e.g. harpsichord expert, baroque expert, etc)
- plastic surgery to look like Richard Gere
- attendance at the Juilliard summer program
- hob nobbing with faculty and general brown nosing
- "outreach"/community musical involvement
- getting the Old Spice Horse Guy to intro your pre-screen dvd
- ????

I think for all talents there is a sort of bell curve like for IQ. And also a sort of ceiling beyond which one cannot go.
At any rate, I think a good teacher can probably make a good musician of even an average person, but not a prodigy...
Children are often reluctant to be called prodigies (and even a bit embarrassed), it is usually parents who push I think.

I didn't even get the joke, and I laughed.

This is a very talented young man I think...

If my assessment was that everyone wanted to be a pop star I would be a deluded assessor of human dreams and goals indeed.

Of course not everyone wants to be a pop star (or a fireman, or an astronaut, or a missionary....) but of those who do want to be a pop star most will not succeed. Simply to achieve one's goals requires admirable qualities. I would think that having a talent for achieving your goals is still a talent.

Actually, definition a. does not refer to people, but to the accomplishment, deed or event itself.

So 'prodigy' cannot refer to an adult, even with the enhanced definition.

dictionary.com:

"1. a person, esp. a child or young person, having extraordinary talent or ability"

Cambridge Dictionary:

"someone with a very great ability which usually shows itself when that person is a young child"

So there doesn't seem to be consensus on whether only a "child/young person" can be a "prodigy", at least not according to the various dictionaries.

Is a 50 yo who first starts piano and is able to advance at the same rate as a child who is considered a prodigy not a prodigy? If not, is there another term for someone showing similar great ability but at an older age?

The dictionary I have sitting around (American Heritage)reads "A person, esp. a child, with exceptional talent" By this definition I would say the word can refer to an adult, but normally isn't used that way.

Oxford English Dictionary:
c.3.c A person endowed with some quality which excites wonder; esp. a child of precocious genius.

OK, I'll get pedantic here, I merely said that the enhanced definition in the preceding post did not allow for the interpretation that an adult could be called a prodigy. I literally meant what I said, and did not mean that adults could not be called prodigies is people wanted to call them prodigies. Honestly, called them pepperonis for all I care!

Pepperonis has no meaning, I prefer to call them anchovies myself (adult or fry).

Whew.. we got that. Now all we have to do is all agree on what 'extraordinary talent' or 'great ability' means.

Then we can all agree on what prodigy means! And we can all throw a big party and stand around being 'correct'!!

And we will develop a ranking system for musicians, so that we can differentiate prodigies from non prodigies... because.... that's what we want.

We're close guys I can feel it...