Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Piano Corner stagnant

Nothing guaranteed to induce stagnation like turgid ellipsis(eseses) used to the nth degree.

Kick back and relax while sentence structure and cogent argument trail off unsatisfactorily into a swamp of little dots...

I don't go bonkers, but I like anchovies on my pizza.

Ay Ay..
Anchovies, black olives and mushrooms here... on a New York thin crust.

Soooo...not mention of zombies, or homophobic neo-nazi zombies

There haven't been any neo-Nazis around that I've seen, but we do have a homophobe who has made his ignorance known recently.

I know who you mean -- and he's a terrific member, though, nonetheless.
Sometimes, as they say, you take the good with the bad.

Pardon the silly smilie.....

How about communists? Are they OK?

Damon
What is that quote about? (excuse my ignorance)

The neo-Nazi was the real thing, but he preceded you, stores..

Communists would be welcome. They might bring out the McCarthy in some folks, and that would be fun to watch.

Some of them write awesome music too. Like Shostakovitch. And Khachaturian I guess.

Shostakovitch supposedly did not have a choice. Don't know about Aram.

I'm not really sure...but you pretty much couldn't do anything if you weren't in favor with the communist party...

Shostakovich opposed the regime and was forced to join the communist party. If you read the conversations with his kids, he was crying after being told to join, and the only other time he had cried was when his wife died.

Prokofiev could care less about communism, though he was severely attacked by Zhdanov in 1948.

Oistrakh and Gilels joined the communist party, though if you ask those who knew him (I read and watched a few interviews), they did it out of safety. Richter could care less about politics, but he didn't join the party. Rostropovich was opposed to the regime outright, sent in a very nasty letter to Pravda complaining how the stupid bureaucracy was impeding artistic development in the USSR that was leaked to the outside world, and he went into exile. There's a funny story about how Rostropovich was once given a glass vase as payment for a concert. The Soviet embassy was always supposed to take 80-90% of the money. Rostropovich went to the embassy, threw the vase on the floor, shattering it, picked up 20% of the pieces and then left.

I haven't read much about Khachaturian, but Richter disliked his music (as well as Kabalevsky's). I know Kabalevsky seemed to be more hardcore communist than the others, though Richter and Shostakovich didn't like him either. During a meeting where Lady Macbeth, after being heavily revised, was discussed and Shostakovich performed it for a committee wihch included Kabalevsky, apparently Kabalevsky said some scathing things echoing the infamous "muddle instead of music" article to the composer. Interesting how it was only Kabalevsky that escaped being denounced during the 1948 Zhdanov Decree.

He had a choice. He just elected to pull back, join the 'party' and write music which kept him safe. Only in his divine quartets did he reveal his innermost thoughts.

A performance of a Shostakovitch string quartet is almost on the level of Bartok or late Beethoven. Don't ever miss a concert with a Shostakovitch quartet.

Alas, Shostakovitch has been over interpreted. Particularly in NYC -led by the pompous critic Richard Taruskin- we're led to believe that S's quartets contain secret anti-Communist references. The mere fact that people attend a concert with S's quartets puts them in some kind of secret league.

That certainly sells tickets, but I don't go for that. Too easy. Shostakovitch was an undeniably great composer, but let's keep the perspective. He took pot shots at Prokofiev's orchestration, but IMO Shostakovitch's orchestration leaves a lot to be desired with a too prominent emphasis on the woodwinds.

But at least one can identify a Shostakovitch score in about two seconds!

Nice post Kuanpiano, and interesting input. Thank-you for that.

Not sure that I entirely accept this, though I suppose it all comes down to how we perceive Shostakovich as a simple human looking out for himself, and not the great composer of the quartets.

From what I have read -and not as much as you- there is a lingering impression that S just wanted to be left alone, whatever that took, and whatever compromises were entailed. But this does indeed take us into NYC areas, doesn't it?

Thanks! I did an essay on musicians under the Soviet Union, so that's why I know a bit of stuff about how communism affected music. What we know about Shostakovich's personality was that he was almost a frail person (as Richter comments on how he was always apologizing), and his notorious chain-smoking habits. I think suffering under the regime really took it's toll on him, especially after what happened to him after he was so harshly denounced by Pravda after Stalin apparently attended Lady Macbeth and disliked it. He was attacked by the public, his neighbours, constantly threatened with arrest, and loudspeakers outside his home openly harassing him. I think that's certainly enough to make him want to just hide and isolate himself!

In Shostakovich's music you really see a lot of personal little bits, like how he incorporates his DSCH motif (which symbolizes himself) into some of his most painful music. Apparently his 8th quartet, which holds the official dedication to "the victims of fascism", was actually dedicated to "his own memory", but he was pressured to change the dedication (this coming from his children).

Edit: I just remembered something....(all of these memories from the essay are flooding back...haha). Shortly after being denounced in 1948 by Zhdanov, where he was forced to read out a speech claiming that he had written formalist music to the detriment of the people and stuff, he wrote an extremely blatant attack on the governent (Stalin and Zhdanov) called "Anti-formalist Rayok". I don't know if there are any videos on youtube of it, but I remember seeing an excerpt on the DVD "Shostakovich vs Stalin: the war symphonies". Pretty much, I remember it absolutely mocking Stalin and Zhdanov to no end, quoting parts of Stalin's favourite song "Suliko", and ridiculing everything.

Another funny story about Maria Yudina: Stalin liked her playing so much he ordered her to record a Mozart Piano concerto for him. The government officials took her in the middle of the night and flew her to a recording studio and they produced the record, and Stalin ended up sending twenty thousand roubles to her. Her response? “I am very grateful, Iosef Vissarionovich, for your help. I will pray night and day for you and beg God to forgive you your sins against your people and country. God is merciful, he'll forgive. As for the money, I shall give it to a charity at the church I go to"

If you want any of my primary sources, I think I have most of them on digital copy, so I can share them if you're interested in the subject matter.

I quote the above in its entirety because it is so well written. Much to learn there, though it doesn't refute my original feelings, more a case of recalling a stupendous performance of the 4th quartet by the Emerson.

It took a few days to get over it- and I've only heard the 8th on CD! Certainly I knew that S was a very frail person, though with all due respect to you, one would hardly attribute the 7th symphony to a 'frail' person -but that was when he was in better health?- surely you don't think it matches the 8th or 10th?

Not to mention the 4th, and that is pretty much where I sign off. I think it the greatest symphonic composition of Shostakovich. Wasn't that before the big crackdown? I spent a very depressing Sunday afternoon as a 20 year old at a performance of the 14th. Maybe I was just too young, but it was all rather monotonous.

It's okay to talk about death, but I get suspicious when it turns into an obsession.

I'm very sorry to say I actually haven't listened to enough of his stuff, only that he's the biggest case for the abuse which the Soviet Union did to its artists!I do know that the 4th symphony was hidden until Stalin's death, since it would provoke another denouncing on his part.

I can say though that I think his 7th symphony is fantastic!! The invasion theme and its repetitions are used to great effect.

I'm going to see Shostakovich's 11th in the spring, along with Rach 2! I can't wait!

Ah me too!

Speaking of Shostakovich, I've got to say my favorite piece by him is his 1st piano concerto because in the 4th movement he randomly quotes the Haydn sonata that I'm working on. I laugh every time I hear it.

Hehe, I saw Conrad Tao (a young pianist pianoloverus is a fan of) perform that with the Lexington Philharmonic last year. I wanted to learn it, but my professor gave me Ravel's Concerto in G. Not complaining.

I like the Lexington Philharmonic's new conductor a whole lot, although I really, really, REALLY wish Mei-Ann Chen had taken the job there... I have always said since her concert with them as guest conductor that she made them sound BETTER than the New York Philharmonic (you've heard me say this oh so many times, haha) when I saw them.