I have a service manual for an old Hammond organ. It has a warning not to tune the organ to "perfection". The organ was an analog device and there were 24 screwdriver adjustment points for pitch. The book said to tune it by ear listening for beats and leave it it that. They said not to use laboratory grade frequency counters. Then (unlike most service manuals) they give the reason why, they said that those slight variation in tune is what gives the organ it's unique sound and character. They go on to say the same applies to a violin section of an orchestra, that each is not in perfect tune. I think even back in the 1940's they knew what you wrote above. it's the quirks and inperfections that make the sound seen real.

Like I said, bad notes!

Exactly!

Snazzy must be feeling very mellow. He's agreeing with everyone! (Or his medication is FINALLY adjusted properly!)

Yes, yes, and yes.

I'm feeling better after spending a few hours on the card. It does have a lot of character. The grandpiano4 is nice. I think what gives it an edge is the 'roughness' of the sound. Gettin' better all the time.

Yes I think subjectively it gets better the more you get to know it.

Another vote for Grand Piano 4 here!

Another vote for an imaginary cocktail of Avant Grand N3 with SN sound engine!

Another vote for the V-Piano being a flop! Although perhaps a flawed diamond might be kinder because what it does well (playability) it does better than anything.

Lawrence, post a link on this thread to your tweak 4...will open people's eyes to what SN is capable of...astoundingly acoustic piano-like.

One other comment...others have said the Yamaha sound has become embedded in our consciousness but thinking about it, I'm not quite so sure...I just think it is a kind of brightness that people initially expect (and Yamaha happens to deliver). The vast majority of pianos in popular music are EQ'd to make them unbelievably bright...they sound right in a mix but would sound unbearable as a solo instrument. I happened to listen last night to Van Morrison's "Wonderful Remark"...now that piano sound is just disgusting but it sort of works...and is typical of pop music pianos. It is this mental imprint of a piano sound that many of us have in our heads. After a little while with the SN pianos you soon become re-educated. My opinion anyway.

Cheers,

Steve

I will, if and when I can figure out how to get the damper noise to record.

I still plan to test using the N3 / N2 to control the RD/SN, which might give me the best of both worlds. I'm also looking into a Yamaha AP with MIDI (I suspect the identical optical sensor system found in the N3 / N2.)

I concur in regards to sounding most like a Steinway. I've played the 7' Steinway (not sure the model) at my Jazz school here in Nashville numerous times the sounds coming out of my RD/SN are quite close to me. All in all, we have to remember that these are digital pianos, and to me, the RD/SN combo, is as good as it gets for a flexible digital stage piano in both action/sound.

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Dave,

I strongly agree, the Superior Grand is the best sound on the stock RD-700GX. I believe the SN sounds (except Grand Piano 1) are mainly based around something tonally closely related to the Superior Grand...but, with a much more compelling bass (the Superior has a somewhat unpleasant dryness to the bass - as do almost all the stock 88 key sampled RD-700GX pianos) and a total absence of the looping and velocity switching that is clearly audible on the Superior.

In short, if you like the Superior you will like the SN Grand Piano 4 (and 2) very much indeed in my opinion. I also agree with you - I don't like the Expressive Grand too much and personally find the SN Grand Piano 1 (which I assume is the SN GP sound featured in the video you linked to) to be a somewhat super-natural'd Expressive Grand...better than the Expressive but with something of that tonality.

Hope this helps,

Steve

There's something going on with the stereo field in that video. The non-SN piano sounds like it's inside a small box. And the audio quality in the video is fairly poor, I hear strange buzzing and chiffing - I believe from too much audio compression.

Here's a different comparison where It's much harder for me to tell which one is SN and which one is not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcFxnqpbqbQ

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I prefer that video too, without a doubt. The material and the way it is played is quite intimate and revealing. Too bad about the audio quality though.

I personally liked the Ultimate Piano the best when my RD was stock. I think the Superior Grand sounded cheap for some reason. The Expressive grand sounded good from the bottom to the upper mid range, but once on top, it started sounding 'tinny' and the touch (even on Super Heavy) became too sensitive.

As I've said before, one of the things I first noticed after I installed the SN card, the action/feel became so much more authentic to me. I honestly 'play' my RD the way I play an acoustic grand. What's amazing too, is I came from a CP300 to the RD-700GX last summer, and thought the RD sounded so much better then, let alone now with the SN card upgrade. As far as action, the RD-700GX is vastly superior to most other digital stage pianos IMHO.

Guitar Center doesn't have the GXF yet, and they don't seem to be expecting it anytime soon. Its the same for GX expansion kit. I've called them, but they don't seem to know anything. Does anyone have any information on that?

How do places like Sweetwater get them this much in advance of Guitar Center. Because they sell higher volume? Or might they be taking GXs, putting in the expansion kit themselves and selling them a GXFs.

Ever since I saw the UPS guy *literally* drop my new 27" TV from the delivery truck to the ground, I avoid ordering on-line whenever possible. :| (that TV died a little over a year later)

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Received my GXF a few days ago. I'm quite pleased with it and am happy to retire my old, bright sounding Yahama.

Before I purchased I looked into the key wear issue thing. I asked around and got an official response from Roland. This information may already be out there somewhere, but here it is again, for those who are considering the GX: Yes, there were very few cases (one in several thousands). The cause was most likely the use of an alcohol based hand product, like Purell (which I believe is a waterless hand sanitizer). Alcohol is very bad for the GX keys.

edit: or use of a cleaning solvent (alcohol, benzene, thinner)

I'm looking for a keyboard stand now. This looks like it would be pretty sturdy. Anyone use one of these before?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/69...e_Keyboard.html

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Thanks for that info box! Glad to hear you are enjoying the RD + SN.


I've never seen or used it. And wow, B&H sure charges a lot for their stands, and they are non-returnable.

Personally, I'd go with either of these:
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=70&sName=M-91
http://www.quiklok.com/catalog/?p=productsMore&iProduct=27&sName=WS-550

Shop around, either can be had for less than $100 USD.

"I looked into the key wear issue thing...Yes, there were very few cases (one in several thousand). The cause was most likely the use of an alcohol based hand product, like Purell (which I believe is a waterless hand sanitizer). Alcohol is very bad for the GX keys."

Did Roland tell you what they like for cleaning their keytops?

Interestingly, Kawai recommends a product that contains alcohol (Windex), in a dilute solution, for cleaning their Neotex key covers.

There was a big buzz among piano teachers during the last flu season, about how to keep piano keys--- such an ideal germ trap--- from spreading around the bird flu. Liberal use of those alcohol gel hand cleaners was one favorite scheme. I guess most teachers don't use these Roland models, but there are some schools that have group lessons, that do.

No, but from the manual: Dry or slightly damp soft cloth. For stubborn dirt -- mild, non-abrasive detergent. And of course, no solvents (alcohol, benzene, thinner, etc)

And I remember seeing this somewhere, but can't remember where: Wipe lightly or you might risk rubbing the dirt into the key surface. Slowly increase pressure if dirt does not come off.



The Roland person did say that the key surface includes anti-microbial material in it.

Although maybe not strong enough for super-bugs or genetically modified ones.

Special order from Germany, you know. :P

Gaaaa! This is why I hate the "ivory feel" trend that seems to be gaining in popularity. Give me gloss plastic keys, or matte if you must, but please reserve this touchy porous stuff for purists who special order it or something. When tons of feverish, sneezy, runny-nosed kids take lessons on your piano you end up having to clean the keys multiple times a day.

Next they'll implement randomly sticking keys in their endless quest for AP "features" on DPs.

I actually wonder why they don't use exactly what's used on acoustic pianos for digital pianos, ivorite or otherwise. My U3 has no ivory in it, but it has a fantastic and durable surface. That said, I've more than gotten used to the RD700GX's surface. I didn't think I would that quickly, but I did.

If I was teaching, I wouldn't let a kid touch my GX. I'd probably get a plastic-keyed piano for that purposes. Probably a P-155 or similar. I'm disciplined enough to wash hands, and even my teacher told me that you have to wash your hands before you play even if you think they're clean. She knew what she was talking about.

Also interesting was the comment on alcohol-based sanitizers and DP keywear. I'll have to watch out for that.

I've had my RD-700GX(F) for a year, and play on average, 3 hours a day, and have no 'wear issues' whatsoever. I have a plain white cloth that I dampen with just water, and it works beautifully in cleaning my keys. What's amazing is how dirty the GX keys can get. Like anything nice in life, it needs a little TLC. I'm very happy with the GX.

Cheers,

Zachary

I wash hands EVERY TIME before I play. (Always have done this with any keyboard instrument . . ). Now I've got six keys that appear dirty. WTF? I'll try your method of a plain white cloth lightly dampened with water . . .

Let us know how it works.

I also wash hands before I play, every time. But with Gardening, DIY, car maintenance, etc, it's very difficult to keep hands, especially fingertips spotless. I could wear gloves for some things I suppose, but never have done up to know. So far it's not mattered too much, as I have a Casio with shiny plastic keys that just don't seem to get dirty. But from today I have a new Kawai with ivory finish keys and will need to be meticulous or start wearing gloves for the jobs about the house and car.

So how to clean these finishes is of interest to me. I'm gonna look for Windex in the shops. How about the stuff used to clean PC screens and keyboards?

Thanks very much for mentioning the issue with the keys and alcohol! I just recently bought the GXF (I love it so!) and had my standard alcohol-based wipes right next to it for the next (first) time it needed cleaning. You have saved my keyboard and my sanity.

Minor point about alcohol wipes / hand sanitizers and disease: While it does help prevent the spread of the flu, it can promote the spread of regular colds as it spreads the virus around (which likes alcohol). Pick your disease I guess.

Really? First time I've ever heard that. Not really a "minor point".