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#1482723 - 07/27/10 08:15 PM In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Call me crazy, but I am really not that into Mozart. If music can be compared to visual arts, Mozart's music seems like wallpaper to me. Yeah, it is nice, structured, everything fits together perfectly, no harsh sounds, nothing out of place...but really, I could say that about the wallpaper in my bathroom. His music doesn't move me. In fact, I find it rather...(dare I say it?) boring.

Does anyone feel the same way? Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?

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#1482728 - 07/27/10 08:23 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19231
Loc: New York City
I think Romantic and 20th century music is generally more appealing to teenagers. Just an opinion.

No big deal if you don't like a particular composer now or even later.

Try these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JE2muDZksP4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGvHN3fKUco
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxcjxN0rPzs


Edited by pianoloverus (07/27/10 08:35 PM)

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#1482731 - 07/27/10 08:24 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?
I'm not a violent person, so, no. smile
But do yourself a favour. Go and see a really good performance of The Marriage of Figaro.
_________________________
Du holde Kunst...

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#1482732 - 07/27/10 08:27 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: pianoloverus]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6082
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think Romantic and 29th century music is generally more appealing to teenagers. Just an opinion.


Hmm, typo or sarcasm?

Anyway, I was always more moved by his orchestral works than his piano works.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1482733 - 07/27/10 08:27 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: pianoloverus]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
I think Romantic and 29th century music is generally more appealing to teenagers. Just an opinion.


I think you have a point there. But I also love Baroque music, and even Haydn. I don't know...for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.

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#1482734 - 07/27/10 08:29 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: currawong]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?
I'm not a violent person, so, no. smile
But do yourself a favour. Go and see a really good performance of The Marriage of Figaro.


Ok, I will if I ever have the chance.

(Of course I thought I should point out that I am generalizing a bit)

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#1482735 - 07/27/10 08:29 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3729
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
In fact, I find it rather...(dare I say it?) boring... Does anyone feel the same way?

I used to feel the same way. I described my conversion in a thread several months back; here's what I said:

***

For what it's worth... I used to feel a little similar. There was some Mozart I loved (the A minor sonata's first movement, the K.414 concerto's last movement, the Requiem). But by and large, I found a lot of Mozart to be boring, partly because I didn't think the compositions had enough individual character. Whereas every Beethoven sonata had its own unique personality, all of the Mozart sonatas tended to blend into each other.

But do keep an open mind. Mozart suddenly changed for me, one day four years ago when it just all clicked. I felt like I'd been using the wrong criteria. Instead of criticizing a lack of bold ideas that would have given these pieces the individual character I thought was missing, I was able to experience, for the first time, that simple flow and beauty which unifies all his music. To use a random Tolkien reference, I started viewing Mozart's pieces like elves: deep and graceful, but not necessarily well-developed individually, their depth coming from something collective. Whereas Beethoven's sonatas are like 32 distinct eccentric geniuses.

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1482736 - 07/27/10 08:30 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: pianoloverus]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
(WA is not a teenager.)

But you're right.

I like listening to Mozart, but I don't just LOVE and ADORE listening to Mozart.

HOWEVER, I greatly enjoy practicing and playing Mozart's music! Sonata K. 331 1st movement was a great learning experience for me, and had a wide range of moods, the 2nd movement (my favorite) was just SO beautiful, and actually fairly deep for Mozart, and the 3rd movement Rondo Alla Turca... Well, it's played a lot among younger students, but I got to brag to the rest of them about playing the whole sonata. wink And the Concerto 21 in C Major K. 467 1st movement was a BLAST. Although I wish I knew all three movements...

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#1482738 - 07/27/10 08:36 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Orange Soda King]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: beet31425
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
In fact, I find it rather...(dare I say it?) boring... Does anyone feel the same way?

I started viewing Mozart's pieces like elves: deep and graceful, but not necessarily well-developed individually, their depth coming from something collective. Whereas Beethoven's sonatas are like 32 distinct eccentric geniuses.

-J


I like that smile
Sometimes I just wonder if Mozart's music has artistic value. (But then again, I wonder what "artistic value" actually is)

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
(WA is not a teenager.)

.


Ummmm yes I am, thank you very much. ???

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
And the Concerto 21 in C Major K. 467 1st movement was a BLAST. Although I wish I knew all three movements...


I am generalizing. There are a few pieces by Mozart that stand out, and that is one of them.

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#1482748 - 07/27/10 08:58 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto

Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
(WA is not a teenager.)

.


Ummmm yes I am, thank you very much. ???


Oh, I forgot. Give or take a couple months, hehe.

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#1482756 - 07/27/10 09:05 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.


Wow. All I can say is your soul must be made of ice. No life? Listen to the last movement of 488 and tell me you've heard another composer having so much fun. I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1482761 - 07/27/10 09:09 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: stores]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: stores
I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.


Is Mendelssohn one of them? I often find a feeling of "life" in his music, too.

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#1482765 - 07/27/10 09:12 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Orange Soda King]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Originally Posted By: stores
I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.


Is Mendelssohn one of them? I often find a feeling of "life" in his music, too.


Honestly, no. I'm not saying it's not there, but he doesn't jump to mind in this instance.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1482768 - 07/27/10 09:15 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: stores]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Oh. Who are some others, then?

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#1482773 - 07/27/10 09:17 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Orange Soda King]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Oh. Who are some others, then?


Bach, Beethoven and Chopin come to mind immediately.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1482775 - 07/27/10 09:20 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: stores]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.


Wow. All I can say is your soul must be made of ice. No life? Listen to the last movement of 488 and tell me you've heard another composer having so much fun. I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.


Yeah, it's fun. But it's not like "real" life. In Mozart you always know what's coming next, or at least it's never completely unexpected.

However, who knows. I may be converted yet. I daresay in a few years I'll be head over heels in love with Mozart...

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#1482785 - 07/27/10 09:37 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Grobanite23 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 12/17/08
Posts: 15
Loc: United States
I'm like you WinsomeAllegretto, I haven't heard very much Mozart that I like, but I consider his Requiem to be one of my favorite works of music. Have you heard it?
_________________________
-Chopin Nocturne in C#m
-Brahms Intermezzo Op. 118 No. 2
-Debussy Ballade
-Bach Prelude and Fugue in Fm WTC II

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#1482786 - 07/27/10 09:40 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Grobanite23]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: Grobanite23
I'm like you WinsomeAllegretto, I haven't heard very much Mozart that I like, but I consider his Requiem to be one of my favorite works of music. Have you heard it?


I've heard parts of it, but not all. I'll have to look it up.

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#1482806 - 07/27/10 10:08 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
BruceD Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17852
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
[...]
However, who knows. I may be converted yet. I daresay in a few years I'll be head over heels in love with Mozart...


That is a good attitude to have. Just because Mozart hasn't yet touched doesn't mean that his music never will. Keep an open mind and be prepared for a revelation.

If you want a somewhat prosaic - OK, maybe even crappy ( word I never use!) - metaphor: Mozart's music can be likened to a lake on summer's day. All the bright glitter of the sunshine on the waters prevents one from seeing the hidden depths, allowing one to enjoy only the superficial beauty. But suddenly, when the light is right and the surface stills, you see just how deep the lake is, and how Mozart's music, to continue the metaphor, does plumb the depths of the human experience to a much greater degree than one initially felt.

There is great representation of the human condition in the music of Mozart, you just have to know that some day it will most likely reveal itself to you. Be glad when it does; be sorry for what you'll miss if it doesn't.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1482816 - 07/27/10 10:27 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19672
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Does anyone feel the same way?

Well, not me.

Quote:
Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?

Ditto. smile

I gotta wonder if maybe you haven't heard really good performances of Mozart.
Probably more than any other composer, Mozart depends on excellent performance.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1482821 - 07/27/10 10:33 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6096
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Mozart is the only one apart from Andy smile who cheers me up...
Incidentally, I have met many people who usually don't like classical music who love Mozart. There is something magic about him.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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#1482824 - 07/27/10 10:35 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Mark_C]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Does anyone feel the same way?

Well, not me.

Quote:
Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?

Ditto. smile

I gotta wonder if maybe you haven't heard really good performances of Mozart.
Probably more than any other composer, Mozart depends on excellent performance.


What is the difference? How do the performers make it "excellent"?

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#1482828 - 07/27/10 10:38 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: ChopinAddict]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict

Incidentally, I have met many people who usually don't like classical music who love Mozart. There is something magic about him.


That may be because he's one of the biggest names in classical music, as well as one of very, very few classical composers they know of.

My mom was the same, but ever since I got serious with classical music and she listened to me practice, came to concerts/recitals/competitions/etc. with me, and stuff like that, her favorite is composer is Ravel. She is in LOVE with my André Laplante CD.

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#1482831 - 07/27/10 10:45 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Orange Soda King]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
It's interesting because Ravel has been and might always be one of my favorites. I love the different harmonies Ravel is able to create and the mix of refinement and rebelliousness that somehow coexist.

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#1482858 - 07/27/10 11:17 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: BruceD]
Ferdinand Online   content
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 936
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: BruceD
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
[...]
However, who knows. I may be converted yet. I daresay in a few years I'll be head over heels in love with Mozart...


That is a good attitude to have. Just because Mozart hasn't yet touched doesn't mean that his music never will. Keep an open mind and be prepared for a revelation.

If you want a somewhat prosaic - OK, maybe even crappy ( word I never use!) - metaphor: Mozart's music can be likened to a lake on summer's day. All the bright glitter of the sunshine on the waters prevents one from seeing the hidden depths, allowing one to enjoy only the superficial beauty. But suddenly, when the light is right and the surface stills, you see just how deep the lake is, and how Mozart's music, to continue the metaphor, does plumb the depths of the human experience to a much greater degree than one initially felt.

There is great representation of the human condition in the music of Mozart, you just have to know that some day it will most likely reveal itself to you. Be glad when it does; be sorry for what you'll miss if it doesn't.

Regards,


BruceD, that is a beautiful and apt metaphor.

I used to enjoy Mozart's music but never suspected its true depth until sometime in my 20's when I took time to listen to the Magic Flute, repeatedly, with full attention.

WA, I second Currawong's advice to attend a performance of The Marriage of Figaro. As an alternative you might try The Magic Flute, and if you never get to see it staged, there is a good film version directed by Ingmar Bergman.

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#1482863 - 07/27/10 11:23 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19672
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
.....I gotta wonder if maybe you haven't heard really good performances of Mozart.
Probably more than any other composer, Mozart depends on excellent performance.
What is the difference? How do the performers make it "excellent"?

I think you have confirmed what I wondered. smile

Thanks for asking. (It's a very remarkable question.)

All I can say is, try to let yourself hear some more Mozart, and try to make sure it's by top people.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1483081 - 07/28/10 10:06 AM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Mark_C]
MaryBee Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/21/09
Posts: 1208
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Check this out:
Chamber Music of Mozart

A quote on some of the content:
"[...] explore the subtleties of Mozart’s technique as a composer: his ability to make art artless—music that is enormously complex and sophisticated but sounds effortless—and to know how and when to bend or break the rules of composition to create music that at times confused or even disturbed his audiences but would endure forever. "

One of the reviewers says:
"Nothing helps inspire a listener like a speaker who is inspired. Prof. Greenberg loves Mozart and that love is embodied in every word of his Mozart lectures."

Could it inspired you, WA?

(I haven't listened to this myself, but I'm in the middle of another one of Greenberg's courses, and I'm really enjoying it.)
_________________________
Mary Bee
Current mantra: Play outside the box.
XVI-XXXIV

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#1483107 - 07/28/10 10:47 AM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: Mark_C]
moscheles001 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/08
Posts: 753
Loc: Northeast Pennsylvania
Listen to the slow movement of Piano Concerto number 23. Very, very beautiful.

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#1483189 - 07/28/10 01:11 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Happy Birthday the nosy ape Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/10/08
Posts: 710
Loc: Westford, MA
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
I think you have a point there. But I also love Baroque music, and even Haydn. I don't know...for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.

All of Mozart's music is well structured, but lifeless? Listen to any one of the late symphonies and say that. Or any of his operas (where I feel his real gift lies). I consider Mozart as second only to Beethoven in the amount of emotion that he puts into the classical style of music. And of course, Beethoven would not have been Beethoven had Mozart not gone before.

I have to agree with a previous point. If you are judging Mozart's music from what you hear at student recitals then I can see where you are coming from. As many say, Mozart is easy to play, but incredibly difficult to play well.

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#1483209 - 07/28/10 01:46 PM Re: In which I compare Mozart to wallpaper [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1306
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
Originally Posted By: stores
Originally Posted By: WinsomeAllegretto
for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.


Wow. All I can say is your soul must be made of ice. No life? Listen to the last movement of 488 and tell me you've heard another composer having so much fun. I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.


Yeah, it's fun. But it's not like "real" life. In Mozart you always know what's coming next, or at least it's never completely unexpected.



I think we're just used to treating Mozart as being an example of 'perfect' classical music - we miss the fact that his music was not just typical fare all the time, it became quite daring and different, very innovative, very surprising at times. We're so used to other composers, and the evolution of music, that we miss the truly exciting aspects of Mozart's music that his contemporaries saw. They saw, they shook their heads and didn't know what to think sometimes. It had to have been very depressing having to write music when Mozart was around.

I really would say that if you approached Mozart and forgot about everyone who came after him - you would find that his music is always surprising, always fresh, always full of new ideas. It's difficult, though.

I find my girlfriend is not amused at older movies, because the ideas, concepts and jokes are old-hat by now. I always ask her to put herself back in 1940 (or whenever the movie came out) and she would realize that it's not the older movie that is old-hat - it's because everyone after that movie stole the jokes and ideas and drove them into the ground. At the time - it was fresh and exciting.

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