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Mozart is the only one apart from Andy smile who cheers me up...
Incidentally, I have met many people who usually don't like classical music who love Mozart. There is something magic about him.



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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
Does anyone feel the same way?

Well, not me.

Quote
Anyone feel like bashing me over the head with a baseball bat?

Ditto. smile

I gotta wonder if maybe you haven't heard really good performances of Mozart.
Probably more than any other composer, Mozart depends on excellent performance.


What is the difference? How do the performers make it "excellent"?

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Originally Posted by ChopinAddict

Incidentally, I have met many people who usually don't like classical music who love Mozart. There is something magic about him.


That may be because he's one of the biggest names in classical music, as well as one of very, very few classical composers they know of.

My mom was the same, but ever since I got serious with classical music and she listened to me practice, came to concerts/recitals/competitions/etc. with me, and stuff like that, her favorite is composer is Ravel. She is in LOVE with my André Laplante CD.

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It's interesting because Ravel has been and might always be one of my favorites. I love the different harmonies Ravel is able to create and the mix of refinement and rebelliousness that somehow coexist.

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Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
[...]
However, who knows. I may be converted yet. I daresay in a few years I'll be head over heels in love with Mozart...


That is a good attitude to have. Just because Mozart hasn't yet touched doesn't mean that his music never will. Keep an open mind and be prepared for a revelation.

If you want a somewhat prosaic - OK, maybe even crappy ( word I never use!) - metaphor: Mozart's music can be likened to a lake on summer's day. All the bright glitter of the sunshine on the waters prevents one from seeing the hidden depths, allowing one to enjoy only the superficial beauty. But suddenly, when the light is right and the surface stills, you see just how deep the lake is, and how Mozart's music, to continue the metaphor, does plumb the depths of the human experience to a much greater degree than one initially felt.

There is great representation of the human condition in the music of Mozart, you just have to know that some day it will most likely reveal itself to you. Be glad when it does; be sorry for what you'll miss if it doesn't.

Regards,


BruceD, that is a beautiful and apt metaphor.

I used to enjoy Mozart's music but never suspected its true depth until sometime in my 20's when I took time to listen to the Magic Flute, repeatedly, with full attention.

WA, I second Currawong's advice to attend a performance of The Marriage of Figaro. As an alternative you might try The Magic Flute, and if you never get to see it staged, there is a good film version directed by Ingmar Bergman.

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Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
Originally Posted by Mark_C
.....I gotta wonder if maybe you haven't heard really good performances of Mozart.
Probably more than any other composer, Mozart depends on excellent performance.
What is the difference? How do the performers make it "excellent"?

I think you have confirmed what I wondered. smile

Thanks for asking. (It's a very remarkable question.)

All I can say is, try to let yourself hear some more Mozart, and try to make sure it's by top people.

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Check this out:
Chamber Music of Mozart

A quote on some of the content:
"[...] explore the subtleties of Mozart’s technique as a composer: his ability to make art artless—music that is enormously complex and sophisticated but sounds effortless—and to know how and when to bend or break the rules of composition to create music that at times confused or even disturbed his audiences but would endure forever. "

One of the reviewers says:
"Nothing helps inspire a listener like a speaker who is inspired. Prof. Greenberg loves Mozart and that love is embodied in every word of his Mozart lectures."

Could it inspired you, WA?

(I haven't listened to this myself, but I'm in the middle of another one of Greenberg's courses, and I'm really enjoying it.)


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Listen to the slow movement of Piano Concerto number 23. Very, very beautiful.

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Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
I think you have a point there. But I also love Baroque music, and even Haydn. I don't know...for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.

All of Mozart's music is well structured, but lifeless? Listen to any one of the late symphonies and say that. Or any of his operas (where I feel his real gift lies). I consider Mozart as second only to Beethoven in the amount of emotion that he puts into the classical style of music. And of course, Beethoven would not have been Beethoven had Mozart not gone before.

I have to agree with a previous point. If you are judging Mozart's music from what you hear at student recitals then I can see where you are coming from. As many say, Mozart is easy to play, but incredibly difficult to play well.

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Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
Originally Posted by stores
Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
for me Mozart is so formal he totally leaves out all vestiges of life.


Wow. All I can say is your soul must be made of ice. No life? Listen to the last movement of 488 and tell me you've heard another composer having so much fun. I can think of only a small handful of composers so full of life such as that found in Mozart's sheer.


Yeah, it's fun. But it's not like "real" life. In Mozart you always know what's coming next, or at least it's never completely unexpected.



I think we're just used to treating Mozart as being an example of 'perfect' classical music - we miss the fact that his music was not just typical fare all the time, it became quite daring and different, very innovative, very surprising at times. We're so used to other composers, and the evolution of music, that we miss the truly exciting aspects of Mozart's music that his contemporaries saw. They saw, they shook their heads and didn't know what to think sometimes. It had to have been very depressing having to write music when Mozart was around.

I really would say that if you approached Mozart and forgot about everyone who came after him - you would find that his music is always surprising, always fresh, always full of new ideas. It's difficult, though.

I find my girlfriend is not amused at older movies, because the ideas, concepts and jokes are old-hat by now. I always ask her to put herself back in 1940 (or whenever the movie came out) and she would realize that it's not the older movie that is old-hat - it's because everyone after that movie stole the jokes and ideas and drove them into the ground. At the time - it was fresh and exciting.

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Originally Posted by WinsomeAllegretto
Does anyone feel the same way?
There is a movie term that music doesn't have, the "Citizen Kane Effect", which is that the movie Citizen Kane is copied so often that even someone whose never seen it before has seen it before.

Like Citizen Kane, you have to give Mozart some leeway. Do to his early death, Mozart sits in an uncomfortable position among the greats. He is a master of Classical period and foreshadows the Romantic period at the end of his life, but he was denied the tools that make the Romantic period casual listener friendly, as well as having his novel ideas greatly expanded by later composers.

If you give forgive Mozart living and dying when he did, you'll find just as much passion and cleverness as any other great.


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A useful use of apricots

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Apparently Mozart found appreciation in Prague, but not in Vienna (too conservative)...



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Some of his operas were controversial in Vienna - they killed any support he once had from the nobility - they had come to enjoy his previous, non-controversial operas. We received some great music from Mozart's creative choice, but boy did it end up biting him on the butt.
Prague, on the other hand, couldn't get enough of him and begged him to move there.

Unfortunately, Mozart chose not to...

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Originally Posted by BruceD


If you want a somewhat prosaic - OK, maybe even crappy ( word I never use!) - metaphor: Mozart's music can be likened to a lake on summer's day. All the bright glitter of the sunshine on the waters prevents one from seeing the hidden depths, allowing one to enjoy only the superficial beauty. But suddenly, when the light is right and the surface stills, you see just how deep the lake is, and how Mozart's music, to continue the metaphor, does plumb the depths of the human experience to a much greater degree than one initially felt.

There is great representation of the human condition in the music of Mozart, you just have to know that some day it will most likely reveal itself to you. Be glad when it does; be sorry for what you'll miss if it doesn't.



Thank you, BruceD! When I saw the title of this thread, as the huge Mozart fan I am (grin) I felt this need to post about how his music makes me feel - but your post is the perfect description of it.

I think most of what I wanted to say has been covered by others, so I just wanted to add a few suggestions of compositions to listen to:

Mass in C minor K. 427
Violin Concerto K. 219
Rondo in A minor K. 511 (listen to Ashkenazy’s recording – it’s beautiful)
Symphony in E flat major K. 543 (Karajan & Berlin Philharmonic)
String Quintet K. 516
Fantasia K. 475 and Sonata K. 457
Piano Concertos K. 466, K. 467, K. 488, K. 491

Plus his great operas that have already been suggested…
I could keep going on and on but it would be an enormous post smile

Mozart moves me to no end. I love listening to Chopin, Debussy, Rachmaninoff, Grieg… but I always go back to Mozart.

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Great post BruceD!


Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)
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My father, who loved music, used to call Mozart's piano music "Lily-bell" music. I hate to admit, that I took my cue from him as a youngster. While I played several concerti in high school competitions and always received great comments for my Mozart "sound" (I had great trills and clean finger-work), I had no real interest in his solo piano works.

As I grew older, I was exposed to Mozart's operatic and choral writing, as well as more and more of his orchestral writing. The recognition that much of his melodic writing was evocative of his vocal writing gave me a new appreciation for his piano works. Plus, I came to realize that these pieces are nowhere as easy to play properly as they immediately appear. To use an analogy that is singularly inappropriate for me, playing Mozart is like stepping on stage wearing only a loin cloth (I know: eewwww). You can't conceal much at all. As we say in the South, you might as well be "nekkid." You can't hide behind loud chords, heavy pedaling, great displays of emotion, etc. It's just a few notes at a time, each of which must be played with the greatest of care.

Anyone who thinks Mozart lacks emotion has not heard "Dove Sono" from the Marriage of Figaro. Or, for that matter, the coda to the final movement of the "Jupiter" symphony. I can't imagine anyone else developing that much excitement from such limited orchestral resources.

In other words, OP. Just give it time. It will grow on you. I now number Mozart among my favorite 2 or 3 composers, ahead of such luminaries as (gasp) Chopin.

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Originally Posted by MzrtFan

Mass in C minor K. 427
Violin Concerto K. 219
Rondo in A minor K. 511 (listen to Ashkenazy’s recording – it’s beautiful)
Symphony in E flat major K. 543 (Karajan & Berlin Philharmonic)
String Quintet K. 516
Fantasia K. 475 and Sonata K. 457
Piano Concertos K. 466, K. 467, K. 488, K. 491

Plus his great operas that have already been suggested…
I could keep going on and on but it would be an enormous post smile



I will just add the Requiem Mass in D minor K. 626 because I absolutely love it... thumb ...although some doubt it is 100% his work? What do you think of this?



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I've never listened to this without getting goosebumps from head to toe. I've even gotten teary-eyed when less than sober:)
(the music starts at about 2:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuKxL4LOqc


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Mozart is absolutely marvelous, in every sense of the word. His music explores every aspect of the human soul, from incredibly joyous, to heartrendingly sorrowful. He has written some of the most exuberent showpieces, and some of the most restrained and humble works that display such simple beauty.

However, it is in his greatest works that his mastery of melody, harmony, and form come to play. He wrote such wonderful concerti for many instruments. My personal favourites (not just his concerti) are:

- Sinfonia concertante (K364) in E-flat major (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT3Z11472gw);
- Piano concerti nos. 20 in D minor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dkK1iw2SMk) and no. 23 in A major;
- Requiem mass in D minor;
- Oboe concerto in C major and clarinet concerto in A major;
- Serenade for winds in B-flat;
- Symphonies no. 29, 35, 36, 40 and 41.
- Piano sonatas in A minor, C major (K545) and B-flat (K283).

There are many more wonderful recordings on YouTube too, so please take some time to listen to them, it might change your opinion.

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