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#1482849 - 07/27/10 11:11 PM Lang Lang--Hurrah!
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
Quite some time ago I experienced Lang Lang on YouTube. At that time I'd had little experience with other classical pianists.

Well....tonight I once again watched and listened to him play on YouTube. Liszt "Don Juan 2" and Chopin's Valse Brilliante.

Holy Cow! This guy can play. I have never heard such precise separation between notes when played fast.

What's with all the bad mouthing that I read about him? I go by what I hear and not by what others say.

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1482852 - 07/27/10 11:14 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
It's not the technical capacity that annoys us, it's the use of it and the lack of emotional control that drives us to dislike him, at least it does for me. Though I think he's reformed it the last couple of years though I haven't keep up.

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#1482853 - 07/27/10 11:16 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
I like listening to him. I just can't stand looking at his face while he's playing. Totally distracting. I have to minimize the screen when listening to him on youtube.

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#1482859 - 07/27/10 11:18 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
How could I forget, no really how could I. I'll never forget the videos of him butchering the Rachmaninoff 3rd and looking like an inspired food doing it.

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#1482862 - 07/27/10 11:21 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: WinsomeAllegretto]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6082
Loc: St. Louis area
The bad mouthing is from all his cornball mugging that he does while he plays. Personally, I don't think it's any more ridiculous than Kissin.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1482872 - 07/27/10 11:28 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
Find the score of a piece (Urtext edition) and follow along with Lang Lang's playing, and see how close he follows it, how stylistically correct he plays, etc...

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#1482876 - 07/27/10 11:32 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Orange Soda King]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
In the words of an exhausted Rachmaninoff: Oh, must I. Who knows maybe I'll become a Lang Lang Fanatic and listen to his whole discography.

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#1482892 - 07/27/10 11:51 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I just think he's a little uneven. Sometimes he plays very well and I like his playing quite a bit.

But sometimes, he goes overboard and runs the risk of being a little "donuts for dinner" - it's exciting in the moment, but afterward, you feel a little overstuffed and unfulfilled at the same time.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1482895 - 07/27/10 11:55 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Kreisler]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Wasn't it worse earlier in his career or am I just that out of the loop?

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#1482902 - 07/28/10 12:06 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Orange Soda King]
lisztonian Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 266
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
Find the score of a piece (Urtext edition) and follow along with Lang Lang's playing, and see how close he follows it, how stylistically correct he plays, etc...


Exactly. He sounds good to the untrained ear and/or uneducated musician (not all pieces, but most I've heard.)
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#1482905 - 07/28/10 12:09 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: lisztonian]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
*slaps forehead and drags hand down face at sudden epiphany* Am I really so self centered that I forgot that my comments are only minor comments in the big picture of opinions that were trying to give the poster.

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#1482908 - 07/28/10 12:14 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
Appears I touched on a sensitive subject with Lang Lang. Good.

During the past hour I've been reading about his struggle to make it in the concert pianists world. Inspiring. Read that Steinway even markets a specially branded Lang Lang piano. The only name-branded instrument they have ever made. Now, why would such a respected and knowledgeable company as Steinway do this? The only reason I can think of is because Lang Lang is a very exceptional pianist. Sure there's a commercial side to this but I trust their integrity and their judgement.

I'm just getting started with Lang Lang. I sure like what I hear so far and I don't mind his expressions at all. Must classical music stamp out all individuality for the sake of the composers? Of course not.

No matter who likes him or who dislikes him--I really like what I see and hear in his playing. Like a machine on a machine but with great dynamics and precise, clean playing.

I'm beginning to wonder if he doesn't know how to mike a piano better than most. Great, quality sound with several of his performances. I really love a quality piano sound.

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1482909 - 07/28/10 12:19 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Brandon_W_T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1940
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Personally I am a L-L fan. I find his playing very good.

He is a person I believe who can reach out to younger kids and bring them into the classical world through modern details. L-L seems to appeal to my generation far more than the older generation.


9 times out of 10 if I ask someone who Horowitz, Borge, Kissin, etc, not a single person in my school will recognize the name.

Now If I ask em who lang lang is, at least 1/2 of them know of him.
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#1482914 - 07/28/10 12:24 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
AHH I may stay off Piano World for a good WEEK or two!!! Or at least out of the Pianist Corner. I'm very scared of what the classical music radical-conservatives (and even moderate-conservatives) will say!!

I'm moderately conservative with classical music too, but I learned LONG ago that I should let my Lang Lang opinions just stay in my mind and not worry too much about them.

I WILL however, say this: If Lang Lang brings you joy, okay. I encourage you to still listen to other more traditional/orthodox classical pianists, though.


Edited by Orange Soda King (07/28/10 12:28 AM)

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#1482915 - 07/28/10 12:25 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
If you want originality get acquainted with Rachmaninoff, Jozef Hoffman, Paderewski, any any other pianist of the old school. They were all very original yet restrained and even more personal that Lang Lang.

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#1482920 - 07/28/10 12:29 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Brandon_W_T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1940
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Originally Posted By: MikeN
If you want originality get acquainted with Rachmaninoff, Jozef Hoffman, Paderewski, any any other pianist of the old school. They were all very original yet restrained and even more personal that Lang Lang.


Yea but they are OLD! :P



**Ducks and sprints**


Edited by Brandon_W_T (07/28/10 12:29 AM)
_________________________
______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ

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#1482927 - 07/28/10 12:40 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Brandon_W_T]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Alright have it you way, but don't forget these comments as you may yet see purpose at a latter date. If you don't it doesn't matter as you still enjoying the music.

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#1482935 - 07/28/10 01:29 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Brandon_W_T Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1940
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
lol I was joking. I LOVE Horowitz, Rach, yea kinda Pade-not-going-to-attempt-to-spell-it as well.
_________________________
______
Home -
1905 Story and Clark Art Case smile

--NEW!--- 1964ish Conn 640 vacuum tube theatre organ! (with leslie!) smile

Grandmas- New Hyundai petite baby grand

Church (the organ I practice on)-
1998 Bedient (Built about 45 minutes from me!) 2m/pedal 24 rank Cavaille-Coll style pipe organ

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#1482970 - 07/28/10 03:38 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Brandon_W_T]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1248
Loc:
I think he 's very good sometimes. There are also some forgettable moments from him on youtube too.

As for his story ... i am sure his case is not unique in China. But think of what Rachmaninoff, Richter, Horowitz, Friedman had to go through in their lives.


At the end of the day , he can turn out to be a great pianist, but there are young pianists that i think have already proved they re on a higher level than Lang Lang ... thinking of Blechacz for a start

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#1482978 - 07/28/10 04:30 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: izaldu]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY do you people torture me? Do some create member names just so they can start a Lang thread and send stores to the loony bin before he hits 50?
I'm not going to bother going into why I don't like LL, or what is wrong with him, but I do want to address one point the original poster made above and that's about Steinway slapping Lang's name on one of their pianos. It's not about Lang being such an exceptional pianist. If it were then we'd have had "the Horowitz" model long ago. It's about DOLLARS!!! Marketability (is that a word?) He sells, because in a media driven world he is who the media calls "the man."
The OP then goes on to say "I'm beginning to wonder if he doesn't know how to mike a piano better than most." Insert rolled eyes here please. I'm sorry, but Lang has nothing to do with the mike placement on his recordings (give the engineers some credit). I realise it's a small point, but let's not give the fool more credit than he deserves.
If you're so in love with him then go vote for him as Gramophone Artist of the Year, attend a recital, buy a recording, but please don't tell me about his hard fought struggle to the concert stage (as if every other concert pianist just steps out onto the stage and VOILA).
Some day I WILL attend a Lang recital (pull your collective jaws off the floor) and I'll even get in the autograph line afterward, but only so that I can have a chat with him and I'll have no problem frankly asking him...why? Other than the obvious (meaning dollars)...why?
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1483001 - 07/28/10 07:03 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Phlebas Offline


Registered: 01/02/03
Posts: 4654
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Bech


What's with all the bad mouthing that I read about him? I go by what I hear and not by what others say.

Bech


Good for you. Like whatever you want. His playing of Don Juan, the Mendelssohn G minor, and 1 or 2 other pieces isn't bad. It doesn't make up for some of the over the top, and awful playing he does elsewhere.
All in all, when he's at his best, he's not pretty good - not great. When he's bad, he's pretty awful. Still waiting for him to become an artist. Hasn't happened.

Strip down the ceiling gazing, funny faces, and other goofiness, and I just don't see what people rave about.

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#1483048 - 07/28/10 09:06 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: lisztonian]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: lisztonian

Exactly. He sounds good to the untrained ear and/or uneducated musician (not all pieces, but most I've heard.)

What I find most offensive in all this Lang Lang bashing is the attitude that if you like his playing you must be unschooled, unwashed, deficient, or somehow lacking in good taste. You guys need to get off your high horses before you suffer nosebleed. And I'm not even a big fan of LL.
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"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP

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#1483069 - 07/28/10 09:45 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jazzyprof]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
He raped the appassionata (cries)
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1483136 - 07/28/10 11:46 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Bech Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/24/10
Posts: 844
Loc: Indiana
One of the things I notice about Lang Lang's playing is he makes the individual notes stand out--even when playing fast. I really like that. Is this called good "articulation" by pianists? I forget which piece but there's one he plays and the piano sound may be the best I've ever heard.

Being new to classical pianists I can see where I lack experience in judging pianists and yet I know that highly experienced listeners and players vary much in their choice of pianist.

I expect people's ability to hear music well--"an ear for music"--varies considerably, even with accomplished pianists.

Who was it--Isaac Stern?--who said: "Make the instrument sing."

Bech
_________________________
Music. One of man's greatest inventions. And...for me, the piano expresses it best.

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#1483144 - 07/28/10 12:01 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Kreisler]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3729
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Certain posts notwithstanding, this is a much more reasonable discussion of Mr. Lang than I've previously experienced here.

Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I just think he's a little uneven. Sometimes he plays very well and I like his playing quite a bit. But sometimes, he goes overboard....


This is my opinion too. (As I've posted here before,) I heard him play Schubert's late A major sonata, and it was ravishing and faithful, all 40 minutes. Later in the concert though, he played the Heroic Polonaise like a buffoon, swinging his head from side to side and smiling.

Still, I'm more impressed by fascinating, original playing than I am unimpressed by silly buffoonery, so I take a weighted average of these two impressions.

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1483168 - 07/28/10 12:41 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: beet31425]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
If their is one thing I can give to Lang Lang is that he's an individual fully capable of giving putting in his own two cents into beaten and battered works. Even if I can't say I like him, and to be honest I rarely like any interpretation I hear of a very standard work, I can fully appreciate him. He's not so far from Paderewski and his antics. Or even some of Horowitz's antics or even Argerich's antics or even Ruben...Well you get the point.

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#1483177 - 07/28/10 12:59 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: beet31425]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: Brandon_W_T
Yea but they are OLD! :P


Okay, then try Biss, Sokolov, Perahia, Volodos, Chiu, Tharaud, Denk, Kimura Parker, Montero, Hamelin, Cohen, Hough, Kern, Trpceski, etc...
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1483182 - 07/28/10 01:04 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Kreisler]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Then it's to impersonal. laugh

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#1483191 - 07/28/10 01:13 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: beet31425]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: beet31425

This is my opinion too. (As I've posted here before,) I heard him play Schubert's late A major sonata, and it was ravishing and faithful, all 40 minutes. Later in the concert though, he played the Heroic Polonaise like a buffoon, swinging his head from side to side and smiling.


-J


Why do you care how he performs, can you just concentrate on his sound only? Is he good or not. I personally do not care how they make the sound. If they are good, they are good regardless how ugly they are. We need to listen beyond the physcial look of the pianist.

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#1483193 - 07/28/10 01:15 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
As much as I'd like to say it doesn't matter. It does, it's certainly factored in to Ivo Pogorelich's career.

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#1483197 - 07/28/10 01:20 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: MikeN
As much as I'd like to say it doesn't matter. It does, it's certainly factored in to Ivo Pogorelich's career.


The same argument, it does not affect Lang Lang career. His mannerism is crazy to put the least. But apparently, he sells well.

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#1483198 - 07/28/10 01:26 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3729
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted By: beet31425

This is my opinion too. (As I've posted here before,) I heard him play Schubert's late A major sonata, and it was ravishing and faithful, all 40 minutes. Later in the concert though, he played the Heroic Polonaise like a buffoon, swinging his head from side to side and smiling.

Why do you care how he performs, can you just concentrate on his sound only? Is he good or not. I personally do not care how they make the sound. If they are good, they are good regardless how ugly they are. We need to listen beyond the physcial look of the pianist.


I agree. My criticism of his performance of the Polonaise sounded like I was focusing on his gestures (smiling, swinging his head). But my point was that the interpretation itself was trivialized and silly. In this case, the gestures were the outward manifestations of what was going on musically.

-J
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

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#1483200 - 07/28/10 01:29 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Yes, but when the name of Lang Lang comes up what do people first think of. It's not the brilliant singing tone. Most people I believe would think of the mannerisms which is sad. Yes we as human beings pay attention to these things.

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#1483206 - 07/28/10 01:43 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Horowitzian Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 8453
Why can't we all just agree to disagree about Lang Lang? These threads are always the same old story over and over and over and over and over and over and over. smile
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Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades, and nuclear weapons.

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#1483219 - 07/28/10 01:58 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Horowitzian]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Alright, whether we like or dislike him he has a career and he doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon.

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#1483235 - 07/28/10 02:28 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: MikeN
Yes, but when the name of Lang Lang comes up what do people first think of. It's not the brilliant singing tone. Most people I believe would think of the mannerisms which is sad. Yes we as human beings pay attention to these things.


I am neutral toward Lang Lang. I heard his recording around 2001 or 2002. I happened at Border book store, and listened those CD machine. I was very impressed with his tone. I did not even know who this young guy was.

His Chopin Nocturne Op. 27 , the Db, I think was extremely good. To date, I think it is the best that I have ever heard.

If you really paid attention, he does all these crazy mannerism since he was a little boy. It is not something he just invented once he became famous. It appears this is the way he performs.

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#1483237 - 07/28/10 02:31 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1474
Originally Posted By: MikeN
Alright, whether we like or dislike him he has a career and he doesn't seem to be going anywhere soon.


Financial and fame wise, he has reached the peak...nowhere to go....I think most pianists in the world will be happy if they can reach Lang Lang level of success. We cannot deny that he is a successful pianist, whether we like it or not.

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#1483243 - 07/28/10 02:39 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
mr_roberts_z Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 204
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Bech
Liszt "Don Juan 2"


Don Juan 2? confused

LL's Carnegie Hall performance is my favourite Don Juan performance (MAH comes in second) but for some reason he completely skips the Eb-minor Andante section right before the ending octaves. I'm pretty sure both the original score and Busoni's reduction have it in there.

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#1483249 - 07/28/10 02:46 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Kreisler Offline



Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13764
Loc: Iowa City, IA
I have an interesting theory about this.

Many of those who dislike Lang Lang are older, and those of us in the 35+ category grew up listening to recordings. There was no such thing as the internet when I was in high school, so we got all of our music on CD.

MTV pretty much changed all that, mostly for popular music. MTV was a HUGE influence on my generation, pairing music with video (it used to be a station that played nothing but music videos - they didn't start doing those stupid reality shows until the mid 90's.)

Nowadays, younger people are more visual and have difficulty connecting with performances that don't have a visual aspect to them. I think this explains some of Lang Lang's popularity and the direction taken by people like the Anderson-Roe Duo and Alexander Tharaud (check out his site for the visual art and video work.)

Plus, most people listen to music on bad computer speakers these days, and recording engineers do a lot of electronic processing to the sound - both of which have an effect on the tone quality of what most people hear. Those with experience listening to live acoustic music usually have a better sense of tone quality, and this is also why it's important for serious pianists to study at music schools with good instruments and good students, and why it's important for student pianists to practice on acoustic instruments. (Digital pianos use very expensive, carefully maintained concert grands as models for their sound. The player of a digital piano doesn't need to work nearly as hard to get a beautiful tone - Yamaha and Roland have already done that for you!)


Originally Posted By: MikeN
Yes, but when the name of Lang Lang comes up what do people first think of. It's not the brilliant singing tone. Most people I believe would think of the mannerisms which is sad. Yes we as human beings pay attention to these things.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#1483259 - 07/28/10 03:06 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Financial and fame wise, he has reached the peak...nowhere to go....I think most pianists in the world will be happy if they can reach Lang Lang level of success. We cannot deny that he is a successful pianist, whether we like it or not.
You've only defined success in terms of money and fame.

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#1483261 - 07/28/10 03:09 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
-Frycek Offline
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I suppose I'm too late to throw in a Lang Lang grenade just for the heck of it?
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#1483262 - 07/28/10 03:11 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Kreisler]
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
MTV pretty much changed all that, mostly for popular music. MTV was a HUGE influence on my generation, pairing music with video (it used to be a station that played nothing but music videos - they didn't start doing those stupid reality shows until the mid 90's.)
OMG- I used to encourage my studnets to watch that because I thought it meant Math TV.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/28/10 03:12 PM)

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#1483272 - 07/28/10 03:33 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Financial and fame wise, he has reached the peak...nowhere to go....I think most pianists in the world will be happy if they can reach Lang Lang level of success. We cannot deny that he is a successful pianist, whether we like it or not.
You've only defined success in terms of money and fame.


What other definition of success for a concert pianist other than money and fame?
Their two main goals to be a succesful concert pianist is to make money and to be famous from playing piano. I do not think their goal is just to play piano beautifully. If it were the case, they would have chosen other career while playing piano for fun.

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#1483277 - 07/28/10 03:40 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Orange Soda King Offline
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway

Why do you care how he performs, can you just concentrate on his sound only? Is he good or not. I personally do not care how they make the sound. If they are good, they are good regardless how ugly they are. We need to listen beyond the physcial look of the pianist.


That's the thing for me, though. I have listened to his playing (without watching him) while following score, and many times he was not faithful to the score. I think this, coupled with his progressive marketing techniques and style bothers many classical music conservatives/traditionalists.

I mean, he has remarkable technique... he has the ability to literally do whatever he wants. It's just I don't feel that he stays with the instructions of the score and stylistically correct.


Edited by Orange Soda King (07/28/10 03:43 PM)

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#1483282 - 07/28/10 03:45 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Orange Soda King]
jazzyprof Offline
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Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I have listened to his playing (without watching him) while following score, and many times he was not faithful to the score.

Would you have enjoyed listening to his playing more if you were not following the score?
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#1483286 - 07/28/10 03:53 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Financial and fame wise, he has reached the peak...nowhere to go....I think most pianists in the world will be happy if they can reach Lang Lang level of success. We cannot deny that he is a successful pianist, whether we like it or not.
You've only defined success in terms of money and fame.


What other definition of success for a concert pianist other than money and fame?
Their two main goals to be a succesful concert pianist is to make money and to be famous from playing piano. I do not think their goal is just to play piano beautifully. If it were the case, they would have chosen other career while playing piano for fun.
A few reasons besides money and fame: love of music, desire to express oneself, the feeling that this is the only thing they could possibly want to do with their life.

I'm sure the professional pianists at PW could give a better explanation. I think most pianists who want to become professionals realize that their chances of making as much money as they might in a different field are very small but choose a career in piano anyway.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/28/10 03:54 PM)

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#1483292 - 07/28/10 04:00 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Financial and fame wise, he has reached the peak...nowhere to go....I think most pianists in the world will be happy if they can reach Lang Lang level of success. We cannot deny that he is a successful pianist, whether we like it or not.
You've only defined success in terms of money and fame.


What other definition of success for a concert pianist other than money and fame?
Their two main goals to be a succesful concert pianist is to make money and to be famous from playing piano. I do not think their goal is just to play piano beautifully. If it were the case, they would have chosen other career while playing piano for fun.
A few reasons besides money and fame: love of music, desire to express oneself, the feeling that this is the only thing they could possibly want to do with their life.

I'm sure the professional pianists at PW could give a better explanation. I think most pianists who want to become professionals realize that their chances of making as much money as they might in a different field are very small but choose a career in piano anyway.


I have talked to many concert pianists, fame is definitely one of their main goals. By being famous, they can have more opportunities to show their love of music. Otherwise, they will just end up playing in front of small number of audiences. In addition, if they have had enough money, they can pick and choose the program that they are interested in performing, they do not need to be dictated by others.

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#1483294 - 07/28/10 04:04 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jazzyprof]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazzyprof
Originally Posted By: Orange Soda King
I have listened to his playing (without watching him) while following score, and many times he was not faithful to the score.

Would you have enjoyed listening to his playing more if you were not following the score?


I understnad sodaking reasoning. But I doubt that he will enjoy any playing that stray from what prescribed in an Urtext score. I think the beauty of any performance for OSK is the ability of the pianist to stick to the score. It is not a bad thing at all, and it is very difficult to do. Some people are more lose in this criterion so that following the score is not the main criterion to enjoy the music....Personal taste, I guess.

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#1483338 - 07/28/10 05:02 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
I have talked to many concert pianists, fame is definitely one of their main goals. By being famous, they can have more opportunities to show their love of music. Otherwise, they will just end up playing in front of small number of audiences. In addition, if they have had enough money, they can pick and choose the program that they are interested in performing, they do not need to be dictated by others.
How could what you claim as one of their main goals be reconciled with the fact that they know that only a small percentage can achieve a major solo career?

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#1483339 - 07/28/10 05:06 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
jdhampton924 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bech
Appears I touched on a sensitive subject with Lang Lang. Good.

During the past hour I've been reading about his struggle to make it in the concert pianists world. Inspiring. Read that Steinway even markets a specially branded Lang Lang piano. The only name-branded instrument they have ever made. Now, why would such a respected and knowledgeable company as Steinway do this? The only reason I can think of is because Lang Lang is a very exceptional pianist. Sure there's a commercial side to this but I trust their integrity and their judgement.


Bech



He brings in the dough, he is flashy, like a neon sign. In the end, there are just many many more pianists I would rather see. All of them have amazing technical abilities. That is what it comes down to, for me at least, that there are just too many other pianists whose work speaks to me on a personal level. Sometimes it is just difficult to tell what Lang Lang is doing.

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#1483341 - 07/28/10 05:16 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jdhampton924]
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For most composers, not following the score is more faithful to the composer's intention than following the score.
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#1483351 - 07/28/10 05:38 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jdhampton924]
Damon Offline
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what an awesome thread!
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#1483371 - 07/28/10 06:01 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: -Frycek]
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Originally Posted By: -Frycek
I suppose I'm too late to throw in a Lang Lang grenade just for the heck of it?


You are never too late because the LL war will never be over...
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#1483403 - 07/28/10 06:53 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Damon]
Horowitzian Offline
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Originally Posted By: Damon
what an awesome thread!


Hey! That's my line. Wait, sorry, I stole it from Brendan. grin
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#1483445 - 07/28/10 08:10 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
I have talked to many concert pianists, fame is definitely one of their main goals. By being famous, they can have more opportunities to show their love of music. Otherwise, they will just end up playing in front of small number of audiences. In addition, if they have had enough money, they can pick and choose the program that they are interested in performing, they do not need to be dictated by others.
How could what you claim as one of their main goals be reconciled with the fact that they know that only a small percentage can achieve a major solo career?


There are tons of concert pianists with varying levels, from world class to state level. Of course, not all of them have major solo career, but all of them have followed the same direction at the beginning of their career. They want to be noted (a well known pianist), just not all of them are successful to be noted. Their intent, however, is the same which is fame, and money will follow. I do not understand why it is so hard for you to see this, it is such an obvious thing.

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#1483507 - 07/28/10 10:25 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Kreisler]
lauralei Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kreisler
I have an interesting theory about this.

Many of those who dislike Lang Lang are older, and those of us in the 35+ category grew up listening to recordings. There was no such thing as the internet when I was in high school, so we got all of our music on CD.



I happen to agree with much of your theory, although we got our music on RECORDS, not CDs! But we spent hours listening to records, often the same ones over and over because there was no easy or cheap access to music. (Compared to today with YouTube and the internet.) We focused on the music and our ears became trained as we listened carefully to the different instruments, harmonic lines, etc. Of course, some of us listened to a lot of garbage, and most of us were partially distracted by the album cover art, and some of us (not me!) were stoned at the time. grin

Laura, still listening to my old LPs, on old stereo equipment, salvaged from the dump and repaired by my amazing husband.

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#1483525 - 07/28/10 11:02 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway

There are tons of concert pianists with varying levels, from world class to] state level. Of course, not all of them have major solo career, but all of them have followed the same direction at the beginning of their career. They want to be noted (a well known pianist), just not all of them are successful to be noted. Their intent, however, is the same which is fame, and money will follow. I do not understand why it is so hard for you to see this, it is such an obvious thing.
Your statement assumes you're correct. I would say the opposite of what ou said is "obvious. Saying someone wants to be able to make a living from music is reasonable, but that is not" the same as saying someone chooses a career as a pianist, or any profession, for money and fame.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/29/10 11:40 AM)

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#1483680 - 07/29/10 09:25 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Bech Offline
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I'm thinking if you handed top musical critics and top pianists a CD containing performances by the best concert pianists and included Lang Lang performing at his best many would, upon hearing Lang Lang, say: Wow, whose that player?

No names on the CD just all great players so the listeners can pick the best PLAYER and NOT the "best NAME."

I really believe there is some elitist, follow the herd kind of psychology when it comes to "whose the better pianists." Same for players of other instruments too.

Shouldn't it be: Forget the looks or expressions or how many contests they've won or even what the critics say. Whose playing excites me the most? Isn't that just about all that matters? Whose playing COMMUNICATES the most to me? Expressiveness.

Bech
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#1483719 - 07/29/10 10:29 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
somedood Offline
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My 2 cents, if I may...

1) No question, LL has good technique. You can't really play the works he does without good technique. But music is not about technique. Technique is merely a tool to enable you to get to where you want to go.

2) Steinway offering a LL piano. Well, duh. Have you noticed how big the market is in China? Put that together with the godly status LL has there...what do you get? $

3) LL cops so much abuse because he popularises classical music. It appeals to the greater audience...the common person, which, in a way is great for classical music. But it's also like britney spears to a tiny extent. Heaps of people like britney. But most of us with some musical understanding would say that she couldn't sing if her life depended on it. And I do sincerely believe that if you extensively listened to all the great masters, and played some of the pieces yourself, you'd understand why the number of LL haters (read: understand the number of LL haters, not necessarily be one). I'm gonna brutally generalise and over simplify here, but LL articulates the notes for the sake of articulating them. People who don't seem to know the piece hear it and thinks he's awesome. But if you listened more carefully to someone like...oh...glenn gould playing bach....well taht's another level of articulation that goes far beyond the surface. Even experienced pianists may not immediately notice the purpose of every subtle phrase he uses, and certainly to the common man it would be much too subtle for them to notice even after multiple listens of the same track. Classical music is all about subtlety - it's not rock and roll. LL turns classical into rock and roll...sort of bastardising the beauty of what classical music is about. When you hear something played fast and clearly, certainly it's impressive. But you'd soon realise that purely being impressive on a technical scale is not music. Music is more than that, in fact, you could make a hundred mistakes and still get the message across (horowitz).

Which brings me to:
4) His outrageous expressions while playing. When you go on stage, you are performing. Everything you do, every subtle detail is PART of the performance. And in my opinion, ANYTHING that spoils the enjoyment of the performance is something that can be done better. Why do pianists bother to wear nice clothes when performing? Why not wear track suit pants and runners? that would certainly be more comfortable. Everything you do, whether it's visual or acoustic, is part of the performance. If you go to a rock concert, you expect flashy lights and loud sound. You're not there just "for the music".

I fear I may have just started a following of haters for saying the above...


Edited by somedood (07/29/10 10:31 AM)

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#1483721 - 07/29/10 10:29 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
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@Bech So now its: 1. You either think Lang Lang is great, or 2. you are some person who doesn't listen well....? How about listening to him, and still not think he is good (or world class, might be a better word)? I listened to him enough, I have been to a performance of him, and I don't like his playing. Sue me smile


Edited by Victor25 (07/29/10 10:31 AM)
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#1483736 - 07/29/10 10:54 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Bech Offline
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Originally Posted By: Victor25
@Bech So now its: 1. You either think Lang Lang is great, or 2. you are some person who doesn't listen well....? How about listening to him, and still not think he is good (or world class, might be a better word)? I listened to him enough, I have been to a performance of him, and I don't like his playing. Sue me smile


Victor, I'll have to admit my choice of words for this subject are inclined toward "stirring the pot" a bit.

Due to lack of experience I cannot say my opinion of Lang Lang is valid. All I can do is judge with what I have to judge with at this time.

Listening to music relates to what the philosopher Henry David Thoreau once said. He said something like: "The works of the great philosophers cannot be read except by other great philosophers." That is read and fully understood. No doubt there is much "detail" in a pianist's performance that I am totally unaware of.

I simply liked what I heard from Lang Lang's performances and wondered what all the bad mouthing of Lang Lang was about.

Bech
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#1483740 - 07/29/10 11:00 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Mr_Lion Offline
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There are a few Lang Lang performances that I have enjoyed, but the majority have been far too 'showy' for my liking, and his facial expressions are almost unbearable. Sometimes it looks like he's even mocking the music.

However, despite these things, I'm not going to bad mouth him as a pianist, because he's a far better player than I am. Too many people give him abuse without the skill to back it up.

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#1483755 - 07/29/10 11:21 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Mr_Lion]
eweiss Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mr_Lion
There are a few Lang Lang performances that I have enjoyed, but the majority have been far too 'showy' for my liking, and his facial expressions are almost unbearable. Sometimes it looks like he's even mocking the music.

You mean like this...



Looks like he's having a pianogasm in this one. smile
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#1483760 - 07/29/10 11:28 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: eweiss]
Mr_Lion Offline
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That's actually one of his most beautiful performances, and his facial expressions aren't vulgar here, he just looks like he's having a wonderful time without being too over-the-top.

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#1483761 - 07/29/10 11:29 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Mr_Lion]
eweiss Offline
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I agree. I just watched the whole thing and enjoyed it.
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#1483769 - 07/29/10 11:38 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
RonaldSteinway Offline
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Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway

There are tons of concert pianists with varying levels, from world class to] state level. Of course, not all of them have major solo career, but all of them have followed the same direction at the beginning of their career. They want to be noted (a well known pianist), just not all of them are successful to be noted. Their intent, however, is the same which is fame, and money will follow. I do not understand why it is so hard for you to see this, it is such an obvious thing.
Your statement assumes you're correct. I would say the opposite is obvious. Saying someone wants to be able to make a living from music is obvious, but that is not the same as saying someone chooses any profession for money and fame.


Who says any profession, we are talking about concert pianist profession. We are talking about LL who is a concert pianist.

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#1483778 - 07/29/10 11:56 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: RonaldSteinway]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: RonaldSteinway

There are tons of concert pianists with varying levels, from world class to] state level. Of course, not all of them have major solo career, but all of them have followed the same direction at the beginning of their career. They want to be noted (a well known pianist), just not all of them are successful to be noted. Their intent, however, is the same which is fame, and money will follow. I do not understand why it is so hard for you to see this, it is such an obvious thing.
Your statement assumes you're correct. I would say the opposite is obvious. Saying someone wants to be able to make a living from music is obvious, but that is not the same as saying someone chooses any profession for money and fame.


Who says any profession, we are talking about concert pianist profession. We are talking about LL who is a concert pianist.
I said that saying someone chooses any profession(meaning including piano)for money and fame is not the same as saying that someone wants to make a living from that profession. The idea that an intelligent person would choose piano as career for reasons of money and fame, when the chances of that happening are well known to be so small, is IMO unreasonable.


Edited by pianoloverus (07/29/10 12:01 PM)

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#1483790 - 07/29/10 12:19 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
Mr_Lion Offline
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Exactly, gaining money and fame is a wonderful by-product of a successful career as a concert pianist, but as pianoloverus said, it's not exactly a large market to financially exploit and many people wouldn't make it to that level. In an ideal world, people pick a profession because they love that area and wish to make a living from it, and if success comes from that passion - all the better.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world, and people pick professions solely for the money, but choosing a career as a concert pianist purely to make money would be foolish. Therefore, I'd say that all concert pianists (including LL), are there because they love the music. Nothing more.

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#1483816 - 07/29/10 12:51 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Mr_Lion]
Brandon_W_T Offline
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Someone mentioned how every note in Lang Lang's music is audible and clear. The recording above proves that point!

Just beautiful.
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#1493813 - 08/11/10 08:50 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Brandon_W_T]
Bech Offline
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Try: Lang Lang Plays Chopin Grande Polonaise Brillante Op.22

Bech
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#1493974 - 08/12/10 03:15 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Victor25 Offline
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Do I have to?
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Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1493979 - 08/12/10 03:22 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Butters109 Offline
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His Don Juan really is something...

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#1493990 - 08/12/10 03:40 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bech
Due to lack of experience I cannot say my opinion of Lang Lang is valid. All I can do is judge with what I have to judge with at this time.



Say I just discovered cheap and unsophisticated but enjoyable Aussie syrah. I would never dream of going to some wine forum where knowledgeable people were discussing the best vintages of Chateau d'Yquem or Petrus, and start bloviating about how the only thing that mattered was that I liked my new discovery.

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#1493996 - 08/12/10 03:54 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: wr]
Zindaras Offline
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The first piece I ever heard him play was the Second Hungarian Rhapsody, my favourite piece ever and a source of huge sentiment (I grew up with the Cat Concerto).



My opinion of him cannot be saved. Regardless of his technical ability, which is obvious (I mean, he just rushes through that piece in amazing fashion), I feel the sound is completely butchered. I by far prefer Hamelin's version, which is almost 5 minutes longer.

Some of the other stuff I've heard from him is acceptable, but I just can't get past that awful performance.

From the newer piano players, I'd take Kissin (best Pictures at an Exhibition I've ever heard) or Hamelin, though I've never heard Kissin play the Second Hungarian Rhapsody and Hamelin does have his worse moments.
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#1493997 - 08/12/10 04:06 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Victor25 Offline
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The part where all the people start dancing and clapping is the best!!!!!! Lang lang is gonna get so beat up in the afterlife by the composers, ow he's in for it!
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494004 - 08/12/10 04:22 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Dara Online   blank
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Victor... that's hilarious... thanks for the ha

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#1494008 - 08/12/10 04:34 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Dara]
izaldu Offline
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did he have to play a white piano? god ...

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#1494015 - 08/12/10 05:28 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Zindaras Offline
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Originally Posted By: Victor25
The part where all the people start dancing and clapping is the best!!!!!! Lang lang is gonna get so beat up in the afterlife by the composers, ow he's in for it!


Yeah, that was just saddening. Totally in keep with the performance, though. Bad performance, bad audience.
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#1494033 - 08/12/10 06:38 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Bart Kinlein Offline
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But he brings younger people to his audiences. Maybe some of them will learn to appreciate other performances. Classical music needs a broader audience!
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#1494034 - 08/12/10 06:41 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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i heard lang lang perform an early beethoven sonata and the appassionata at the royal albert hall (and also some prokofiev but i forget what it was) and he finished of with a wonderful encore of chopin etudes and the A flat polonaise. personally i thought he played beautifully, with lots of emotion and in most cases adhering to what i believe is the score (although i haven't memorise the appasionata). i think he's a great pianist and very talented although i don't really agree with his A flat polonaise, but you get that with every pianist.
As to his facial expressions, i don't really pay much attention to what the pianist looks like as its about the music.
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#1494035 - 08/12/10 06:42 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bart Kinlein]
Zindaras Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bart Kinlein
But he brings younger people to his audiences. Maybe some of them will learn to appreciate other performances. Classical music needs a broader audience!


I prefer André Rieu for that (though he's not a pianist). His music is actually pretty good, too. And there are others who do have some appeal to younger people as well.

But that doesn't mean we have to like the way he plays. That Hungarian Rhapsody was just awful. I don't care how enthusiastic the applause was and how few people there knew about classical music (looking at the video, it was broadcast on Dutch tv as well, so it probably reached quite a few people), I thought it was horrible.
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#1494037 - 08/12/10 06:45 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Victor25 Offline
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I repeat what I said on the first page of this thread, 'he raped the Appassionata!'.

And I do have it memorized.
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Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494038 - 08/12/10 06:46 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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raped?
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#1494040 - 08/12/10 06:47 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
Victor25 Offline
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raped
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494041 - 08/12/10 06:48 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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hahaha what do you mean by that, friend??
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#1494045 - 08/12/10 06:59 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
theJourney Offline
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Judging by the audience reactions, the passion between them and LL was shared, so can we really speak of rape?
How about public impropriety instead?

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#1494046 - 08/12/10 07:00 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
Victor25 Offline
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@The Journey, we are talking about the appassionata here.

He's tempo was all over the place, the whole theme's were barely recognizable by it, whole passage's lost their meaning by an overpowered rumbling left hand where right was doing the melody. He made extreme pause's in places where you just have to stay in time. It was truly bad.


Edited by Victor25 (08/12/10 07:00 AM)
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#1494048 - 08/12/10 07:04 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
theJourney Offline
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I have heard this happen in the Concertgebouw. It is as if his initials refer to the place he is playing from at that moment: Liberace Land

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#1494052 - 08/12/10 07:17 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Zindaras Offline
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Originally Posted By: Victor25
@The Journey, we are talking about the appassionata here.

He's tempo was all over the place, the whole theme's were barely recognizable by it, whole passage's lost their meaning by an overpowered rumbling left hand where right was doing the melody. He made extreme pause's in places where you just have to stay in time. It was truly bad.


Yeah, that's basically how I feel about his performance of the Rhapsody as well. Same flaws.
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#1494053 - 08/12/10 07:17 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: theJourney]
TheHappyMoron Offline
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i saw on the television the other week Lang Lang recieving a master class from Barenboim, where they enthusiastically analysed the appasionata together. so it can't have been that bad unless you think Barenboim is a poor pianist also
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#1494056 - 08/12/10 07:25 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
Victor25 Offline
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Not a poor pianist at all, but he's not near my top5 of best Beethoven performers! And as you will notice, Barenboim also constantly talks about the things I just said, the tempo, the themes, and the rumbling loud right hand.
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494064 - 08/12/10 07:39 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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the word 'rape' in the context of fine pianism usually refers to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spXPWMsvF8w

or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvYtfOOjhM

the guy in the 2nd video is a well-known serial rapist.

hope this clears things up.
this is not quite the same type of rape as Lang Lang is associated with.

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#1494067 - 08/12/10 07:42 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Victor25 Offline
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That begs the question, what kind of rape is Lang Lang associated with? (I thought just the piano, didn't know he was a sex offender :|! )
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494073 - 08/12/10 08:04 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Well you see, a rather long time ago, LL viciously raped this thing known as 'good taste'...

Regarding Lang Lang.... I don't know him personally but a mutual friend grew up in the same village and is the same age. They both took piano together, and were close childhood friends. They went around together to all the competitions as small children.

People in China never thought he would have much of a career. He was considered to have average technique (by Chinese prodigy standards), and he apparently ALWAYS had below-average taste.

Anyway, say what you want about Lang Lang. As you can tell from my tone, I have little love for the man. However, he has powerful stage presence and charisma. EXCEPTIONALLY powerful. His playing is ALWAYS filled with EXTREMES of contrast-contrast in texture, contrasting dynamics, contrasting articulations, contrasting emotions. He gets a powerful reaction out of people, whether it's positive or negative.

Of course he doesn't DESERVE the cool $20 million a year that he MAKES.... but who ever said life was going to be fair?

Now imagine if wasn't such a clown...
But you can't hold it against him-like every good pianist, he plays it the way he hears it and for him, that is the way it MUST be.

His Don Juan is godly, whether or not you like him. Don Juan is just the type of thing that suits him. Just the type of thing that his retard-antics, coupled with the insane amount of practice he did on it, can make into a great performance.

As others have said, it would be nice if he played everything that well. Most of his performances I find hideous. That Chopin 10/3 that someone posted on this thread and everyone was gushing about has got to be one of the worst crimes against music he's ever committed.

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#1494075 - 08/12/10 08:11 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Zindaras Offline
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Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
the word 'rape' in the context of fine pianism usually refers to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spXPWMsvF8w

or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvYtfOOjhM

the guy in the 2nd video is a well-known serial rapist.

hope this clears things up.
this is not quite the same type of rape as Lang Lang is associated with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj9GzX-7Hy4&feature=related

3:50 is pretty bad, too.
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#1494077 - 08/12/10 08:20 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Victor25 Offline
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Best comment below it: 'If I were the piano, I'd punch back'
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494082 - 08/12/10 08:28 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
octurn Offline
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LL comparing Prokofiev's 3rd concerto with Street Fighter:



I hope this may fuel the discussion a little more ;-)
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#1494083 - 08/12/10 08:28 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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I like this one, on his YT channel.

MarshalGZhukov (2 months ago)
Dude your playing is truly criminal. I don't see any other solution besides a firing squad for you.


to which he replies:

bedlach (2 months ago)
Come and get me, sucker.

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#1494132 - 08/12/10 10:09 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Argerich5405 Offline
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I just need to point out that no matter what you guys say... LL has the last laugh! He's making millions off of people who ENJOY his music, his performances. Yes these people may be tasteless idiots who know nothing about classical music, how pieces should be played, etc... but in the end, they ENJOY LL's music and are willing to pay for it. To me, that's a sure sign of success. Now I will admit, I don't care much for his music, but it does not give me or you the right to attack people who do enjoy his music. I mean, seriously, just a different cup of tea. After all, how many "somewhere over the rainbow" versions are there??? And you know what? he wouldn't be as as famous as he is now had he just BLENDED in with everyone else, playing what you guys consider "proper" playing.

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#1494136 - 08/12/10 10:12 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Argerich5405]
Victor25 Offline
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Nahhh regretted this comment anyway, nevermind.


Edited by Victor25 (08/12/10 10:55 AM)
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
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#1494138 - 08/12/10 10:18 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Victor25]
Zindaras Offline
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The OP wanted to know why people were bad mouthing Lang Lang.

*shrugs*

I have respect for him. I wish I had his technique...but if I had, I wouldn't play like him (or at least not everything. I do admit I enjoy some of the stuff from him I've heard on Youtube).
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#1494154 - 08/12/10 10:40 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Argerich5405 Offline
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As for why people are bad-mouthing him... just jealous idiots.

I especially took offense to someone somewhere in the thread saying something about "yeah, yeah...another guy from China who would have starved had he not made it...yeah he had to work really hard but everyone works hard to become a concert pianist, blablabla" or something to that extent.

Yes, most concert pianists work really hard to become what they are. However, the consequences of not making it differ drastically country to country. This is really something that should not be made light of. I mean, if someone had said "yeah, yeah... another holocaust survivor story", seems to me to ring a similar insensitive remark downplaying the struggles of this individual


Edited by Argerich5405 (08/12/10 10:41 AM)

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#1494168 - 08/12/10 10:57 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Argerich5405]
Zindaras Offline
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I think people are bad-mouthing him for the same reasons that there are people bad-mouthing other classical pianists: differences in interpretation. Victor likes his Appassionata in a specific way, I like my Second Hungarian Rhapsody in a specific way, and Lang Lang does it so horribly different that we cannot help but be negative about it, as we feel it goes against the spirit of the piece. Jealousy might come into it at some point, but there is more to consider. Overall, I love Kissin, but I've listened to a recording from him of Chopin's Prelude 4, Opus 28, which I honestly think I do better. Why? Because I think he butchers it by playing it too fast.

As far as that story goes, I understand your point. On the other hand, I do think those types of stories tend to get 'blown up' a little bit: they are very dramatic and so people focus a lot on them. Who knows what he really went through? Even in the department of holocaust survivor stories, you have different kinds of gradations. There are the ones that have had to suffer through years of camps and have lost everyone they held dear, and there are the ones that only got caught a couple of days before the end of the war and thus may not have been subjected to the same horrors. I think that's what the poster intended.
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#1494169 - 08/12/10 11:04 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
Victor25 Offline
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Exactly my thoughts, well said Zindaras!
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Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1494176 - 08/12/10 11:21 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
eweiss Offline
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Originally Posted By: MikeN
Yes, but when the name of Lang Lang comes up what do people first think of.

Here's what I think of...



Really. I'm not kidding.
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#1494179 - 08/12/10 11:30 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: TheHappyMoron]
Brandon_W_T Offline
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Whilst everyone in that audience of the HR performance looks stoned, and that tempo was faster than I like, his performance was nearly perfect, and being played that fast is not easy to do. My hats off to him for being able to play it that well, that fast.
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#1494180 - 08/12/10 11:31 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: eweiss]
izaldu Offline
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Regarding the "what a crappy childhood i had " subject. I am not saying he didn't, i don 't know, but consider what most of these jewish russain pisnists had to go through during the soviet revolution ... moving to a new country not spealing the language, not knowing where or how your family may be ...

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#1494188 - 08/12/10 11:39 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: eweiss]
Catenaires Offline
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The Neill Eisenstein stuff may have been the single most retarded thing I have ever seen in my short damned life.

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#1494263 - 08/12/10 01:12 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Brandon_W_T]
Zindaras Offline
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Originally Posted By: Brandon_W_T
Whilst everyone in that audience of the HR performance looks stoned,


They probably were, considering the fact it was in Amsterdam.

Quote:
and that tempo was faster than I like, his performance was nearly perfect, and being played that fast is not easy to do. My hats off to him for being able to play it that well, that fast.


My gripes with him were never technically related. I can't detect a single error in his playing there (but then again, I probably wouldn't have been able to), and his speed is incredible. I just can't fathom how his version is just a little over half the length of Hamelin's version (which I consider standard). Hamelin's is on the long version, but the majority of recordings seem to be about 10 minutes in length...which still shaves off more than 2.5 minutes. That, coupled with the fact that he is utterly erratic in his tempo, sometimes playing a part relatively normal and then releasing a floodwave of notes, just ruins it for me. Basically, he turns the piece into a display of his technique, which is what music is just not about.

The very first piece I learned already taught me that playing the notes is not the same as playing the piece. I miss him playing the piece. For all his swaying, he fails to convey the emotion that Hamelin does without so much as moving his head.
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#1494470 - 08/12/10 05:12 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
SoundEffect Offline
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Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
the word 'rape' in the context of fine pianism usually refers to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spXPWMsvF8w

or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWvYtfOOjhM

What about this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nIuA7Ir19k

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#1494476 - 08/12/10 05:20 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
beet31425 Online   content
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Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
the word 'rape' in the context of fine pianism usually refers to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spXPWMsvF8w
or this....


How about if the word 'rape' never be used in the context of fine pianism? Why don't we just do that.

-J
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#1494512 - 08/12/10 05:54 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Zindaras]
pianoloverus Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Zindaras
. I just can't fathom how his version is just a little over half the length of Hamelin's version (which I consider standard).
Hamelin probably plays his own cadenza which is extremely long.

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#1494531 - 08/12/10 06:20 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: pianoloverus]
MikeN Offline
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Yes, and probably one of the most interesting and legitimate cadenzas I've heard, though it's not for everyone.

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#1494553 - 08/12/10 06:48 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Argerich5405]
wr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Argerich5405
As for why people are bad-mouthing him... just jealous idiots.



Saying that reflects rather badly on you, not on them.

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#1494687 - 08/12/10 09:06 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: stores]
Skorpius Offline
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Deux Arabesques, Debussy


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Danse Russe from Petroushka, Stravinsky
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#1494691 - 08/12/10 09:09 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Skorpius]
MikeN Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skorpius
Popularity=/=Good Musicianship

+1

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#1494694 - 08/12/10 09:14 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Skorpius Offline
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Oh and Bech, why don't you listen to his recording of Rach's g minor prelude:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfz1G7Btyo&feature=related
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#1494716 - 08/12/10 09:36 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Skorpius]
MikeN Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
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Loc: Ohio
I for one congratulate Lang Lang. Some multitasker he is. While we average mortals struggle with talking and playing at the same time, he effortlessly dances and plays at the same time.

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#1494717 - 08/12/10 09:37 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Skorpius Offline
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Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 751
Originally Posted By: MikeN
I for one congratulate Lang Lang. Some multitasker he is. While we average mortals struggle with talking and playing at the same time, he effortlessly dances and plays at the same time.

YEP.
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#1494720 - 08/12/10 09:40 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Skorpius]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Loc: United Kingdom
Still, I think we can all agree that the most brutal rape that ever occured on a piano was the infamous Cindy Elizondo beauty pagent Chopin Sharezo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUiHBjQku0o

You can say what you want about Neill Eisenstein. He's got devastating chops. And a facebook group someone formed called 'neil eisenstein-the legend'. no, i did not form it.

No one blames Lang Lang for anything but criminal taste:
the fact that his clownass musicianship is worth 20mil a year says more about the sad world we live in than anything else...

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#1494722 - 08/12/10 09:42 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
MikeN Offline
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Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Agreed, on all counts.

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#1495033 - 08/13/10 08:23 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
SpencerF Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 122
Why don't we just all admit that he's fun to make fun of because it's hard to take someone serious with a name like Lang Lang.

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#1495052 - 08/13/10 08:59 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1248
Loc:
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist

No one blames Lang Lang for anything but criminal taste:
the fact that his clownass musicianship is worth 20mil a year says more about the sad world we live in than anything else...


Sorry, but i cannot agree with that. Lang Lang may be plain irritating onstage (he is to me), but he is a hell of a pianist. He is still a virtuoso that has given everything for his art, whether his art is my or your cup of tea.

I saw Katie Perry, who happens to be on the paper DAILY, recently on tv, live show, could only take 10 minutes of it. I was curious as to what she was offering to be getting so much attention.

She can´t sing to save her life, she was out of tune the whole time , way out of tune. Seriously, it was that bad. Audience were still ecstatic.

And Lady Gaga? i managed to hear one of her songs, catchy tune , but c.r.a.p. imho. Then i read this interview wth her, where she said she used to do cocaine, but that she didn't want people to think that coke gives you talent. How stupid is that? Obviously she is probably bright in more than one way, i mean, she's probably the most famous pop star right now. But THAT shows you how little people are happy with these days in terms of music, art ...

Lang Lang may be a sellout, but i wish half the people that enjoy Lady Gaga's bs would actually klisten to LL's erpertoire and enjoy it.

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#1495067 - 08/13/10 09:21 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: izaldu]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
izaldu,
you've completely missed the point.
NOWHERE did I say Lang Lang wasn't a good pianist. To play Don Juan like he does you HAVE to be a virtuoso.
There are thousands of virtuoso pianists who have devoted their lives to their art. Many of them far surpass Lang Lang in every pianistic way. It's not his piano playing that's worth all that money. It's his clown antics, I'm afraid, that sell so hideously well.


If you read my post carefully (not this one), you'll see I give Lang a lot of credit where credit is due. In a world chock FULL of boring pianists who play the notes but nothing else, Langx2 brings performances filled with excitement and contrast.

Katie Perry happens to be INSANELY hot. She is lucky to have an image that clicked with the times.
I too am mystified by many aspects of our culture.

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#1495072 - 08/13/10 09:34 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1248
Loc:
I don't think i misread you, i m just saying that the most irritant, hystrionic and clowny version of LL would still be preferable to Ms. Perry. Even if she learned how to sing. So basically ... we agree.

I guess KP has some kind of talent ... i just cannot see it at all. Because she 's fine looking , sure, but aren't there a million models as good looking as her?

It really bugs me to see people with zero talent getting so much attention. Specially considering there is a lot of people with huge talent that get zero attention.

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#1495080 - 08/13/10 09:45 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: izaldu]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
I think many of Katy Perry's songs are kind of funny. They're all catchy.

Does it bother me that one single song of hers will be seen by more people, will earn more money, and will get more attention than I will ever in my entire life as a classical pianist?

meh... not really. What do you want? Every single professional pianist to be on the top 40?

I don't think L'Homme qui marche I is worth 140 million. I'd probably pay about a thousand bucks for it, depending on what I could scrape together.

It's a weird world. Just do your thing and hope for the best... I guess...

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#1495093 - 08/13/10 10:09 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
izaldu Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/18/08
Posts: 1248
Loc:
I hear you.

If she makes X mm a year , more power to her.
But i believe art serves a purpose, it makes people more appreciative, sensible ... i do think art makes one a better person. So if you get fed stupid tv, stupid music, and stupid movies only ... well i think you re missing a lot. And worst of all, some of these singers are not only seen as entertainers, just a pretty face that sings ephimeral music, but as role models. That is what scares me.

Or maybe i am just getting old and grumpy!

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#1495112 - 08/13/10 10:40 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: izaldu]
babama Offline
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Registered: 02/15/08
Posts: 800
Loc: Netherlands
I only heard a handful of performances by LL but what he did to Rachmaninoff Prelude 23/2 and 23/5 is so terrible I'm not even interested in other things he plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7efXmTHlBlU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Qo6fmMkGE


Edited by babama (08/13/10 10:43 AM)

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#1495133 - 08/13/10 11:22 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: babama]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
I actually thought he did a pretty good job with both of those preludes... Of course they're both far too rushed and lacking in majesty and glory, but how can you expect a clown like LL to know about such noble emotions?

He did a wonderful job bringing out the gorgeous inner melodies in both of them. And in the Bb, he manages to bring out the main melody quite well (very difficult due to its strange notation).
No, there are FAR worse Lang Lang offenses on youtube.
such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKA65IEPw0Q
look at how he picks his nails right before the octaves.

or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fnAa4micUg

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#1495148 - 08/13/10 11:48 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Bech]
Gerard12 Offline
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Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 757
Loc: South Carolina
He is still young. And he is growing up in public, which is an extremely unique position to be in - especially for a classical pianist.

So let him make his immature interpretive mistakes. At least he's taking chances. I'm looking forward to what he'll sound like in 10 or 20 years from now.
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#1495162 - 08/13/10 12:12 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Gerard12]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
that's the thing thought.... he's NOT young. Not anymore. He's pushing 30. He's not going to change much. Why should he when he's pulling in the cash on such an epic scale?

Haochen Zhang is young. Zhang doesn't make 'immature interpretive mistakes'. He was a mature artist at 18. Lang Lang is still playing the clown at 28.

And what a lucrative clown he is.... I believe he's the highest paid pianist since Paderewski.

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#1495169 - 08/13/10 12:29 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Who's skill is also debatable.

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#1495177 - 08/13/10 12:38 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
agreed. Last time I tried to sit through a Paderewski recording, I just couldn't stomach it.
My Polish friends joke about how he was a better pianist than composer, and a much better prime minister than pianist...

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#1495181 - 08/13/10 12:43 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Catenaires Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 160
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
that's the thing thought.... he's NOT young. Not anymore. He's pushing 30. He's not going to change much. Why should he when he's pulling in the cash on such an epic scale?

Haochen Zhang is young. Zhang doesn't make 'immature interpretive mistakes'. He was a mature artist at 18. Lang Lang is still playing the clown at 28.

And what a lucrative clown he is.... I believe he's the highest paid pianist since Paderewski.



30 not young? If he lives to the average of the human life-span, he has decades to go.
I would even consider 40s-50s young for a pianist.

Compare an early Richter recording to a late one.

How about the difference between Gould's Goldberg recordings?

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#1495192 - 08/13/10 12:53 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Catenaires]
JustAnotherPianist Offline
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Registered: 11/20/08
Posts: 798
Loc: United Kingdom
....and if he were in the year 1400 he'd be an old man.
seriously, in a world where many of the greatest pianists made their professional debuts at the age of 13, 30 is kind of late for someone to begin pulling their head out of their....

you're the guy who gives recitals on peyote right?


.....man that is sooooooooo cool. we are kindred spirits, you and I.

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#1495289 - 08/13/10 03:33 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Luthrin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 53
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist

No, there are FAR worse Lang Lang offenses on youtube.
such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKA65IEPw0Q
look at how he picks his nails right before the octaves.

I don’t hold strong opinions one way or the other on LL, but those few seconds at 5:02 (and particularly at 5:07) were quite a shock to me when I first saw them a couple of months ago.

It was simply naiveté on my part – I really had bought into the idea that in a full orchestral setting like that the top performers become 'one' with the music and give their all on stage.

Just a fleeting moment of mannerism, but it seemed so disrespectful - disrespectful of the audience, of the orchestra, of the conductor, and most especially of the composer.

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#1495314 - 08/13/10 04:17 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8828
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist

No, there are FAR worse Lang Lang offenses on youtube.
such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKA65IEPw0Q
look at how he picks his nails right before the octaves.

or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fnAa4micUg

I swore I would never watch another bloody LL video again, so the punishment I endured from the above is totally my fault. But even without the visuals, LL's playing is simply not to my taste, and there are none of his CDs in my collection.
_________________________
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#1495325 - 08/13/10 04:40 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Luthrin]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6082
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Luthrin
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist


look at how he picks his nails right before the octaves.


Just a fleeting moment of mannerism, but it seemed so disrespectful - disrespectful of the audience, of the orchestra, of the conductor, and most especially of the composer.


I'm sure he didn't think of it that way. With the drumming of the fingers, the look on his face and then the fingernail picking, I might as well have been watching a Bugs Bunny cartoon depiction of the concerto. He was merely clowning again, oblivious to whether or not it insulted the orchestra or conductor. I don't know why you guys let this get under your skin.
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#1495335 - 08/13/10 05:05 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Damon]
Chris G Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 737
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Why does everyone get so upset when a musician they don't like becomes famous? Far worse is when someone whose music I like becomes famous because then instead of being able to see that musician perform in a small club and for a few dollars cover charge I can only see them for in a large venue after buying an expensive ticket. Don't get me wrong - I'm happy when a musician whose work I admire is getting recognition and reward but seeing someone play in a large concert hall, or worse yet a stadium is not the same as seeing someone perform up close.

If you don't care much for the music of the big name performers you are lucky - you can save your money and go see someone you like better in a more intimate setting for a fraction of the price.

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#1495336 - 08/13/10 05:06 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Luthrin]
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/30/04
Posts: 2621
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted By: Luthrin
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist

No, there are FAR worse Lang Lang offenses on youtube.
such as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKA65IEPw0Q
look at how he picks his nails right before the octaves.

I don’t hold strong opinions one way or the other on LL, but those few seconds at 5:02 (and particularly at 5:07) were quite a shock to me when I first saw them a couple of months ago.

It was simply naiveté on my part – I really had bought into the idea that in a full orchestral setting like that the top performers become 'one' with the music and give their all on stage.

Just a fleeting moment of mannerism, but it seemed so disrespectful - disrespectful of the audience, of the orchestra, of the conductor, and most especially of the composer.

Oh please, give us a break. Say you are about to launch into the octaves and you discover that you have a hanging fingernail. What is wrong with fixing the offending fingernail before resuming play? How is that disrespectful of the composer?

When I look at the video I just see a guy having fun, enjoying he hell out of the opportunity to play before thousands of adoring fans, for a cool $20 million a year. This is a concert not a funeral.
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#1495389 - 08/13/10 06:13 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jazzyprof]
Luthrin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 53
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: jazzyprof

Oh please, give us a break. Say you are about to launch into the octaves and you discover that you have a hanging fingernail. What is wrong with fixing the offending fingernail before resuming play? How is that disrespectful of the composer?

If you think that LL suddenly discovered that he had a hanging fingernail at that moment and fixed it before resuming play, then I think you’re allowing your passion against Lang Lang bashing (as you call it) to cloud your judgement of reality.

But fair enough – like I said, I don’t hold strong views on Lang Lang, and I did admit that my idealised image of concert pianists was naive.

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#1495416 - 08/13/10 06:47 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Chris G]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Why does everyone get so upset when a musician they don't like becomes famous?


Everybody doesn't. Why do LL fans get so upset when people who know a thing or two about the art point out his failings?

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#1495420 - 08/13/10 06:54 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: wr]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3729
Loc: Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Why does everyone get so upset when a musician they don't like becomes famous?

Everybody doesn't. Why do LL fans get so upset when people who know a thing or two about the art point out his failings?

Only because the attacks usually aren't just against LL-- that's fine-- but also against the musicianship of the fans. I'm not a die-hard fan, and I dislike some of what he does, but I think his touch and tone are often wondrous, and I actually think he's a thoughtful, risk-taking musician. But notice that even your statement implies (to some degree) that I don't know "a thing or two about the art". I think that's unfair.

-Jason
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#1495422 - 08/13/10 06:57 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: beet31425]
Brandon_W_T Offline
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Registered: 01/18/10
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Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
"a true artist encourages the works of those below him"
-- Anonymous
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#1495426 - 08/13/10 07:01 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: wr]
Chris G Offline
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Registered: 01/15/09
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Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Why does everyone get so upset when a musician they don't like becomes famous?


Everybody doesn't. Why do LL fans get so upset when people who know a thing or two about the art point out his failings?



I'm neither a fan nor a disparager of LL. I just wonder why so many people in the classical forums waste so much energy trash talking about famous performers.

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#1495450 - 08/13/10 07:33 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: jdhampton924]
al-mahed Offline
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Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
To my layman ears, he is a terrific technician, but a very poor interpreter.
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#1495461 - 08/13/10 07:50 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: al-mahed]
Skorpius Offline
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Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 751
Well here's the thing: If you can listen to a recording of him without looking at him play, there is some music he plays that are very good, but when you can hear other pieces and notice his extreme exaggeration of rhythms, etc., you start to lose respect for it. Playing music emotionally is fine, but when it comes to the point of "sounding fake" and OVER exaggeration, it tends to be less satisfying.
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Deux Arabesques, Debussy


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#1495633 - 08/14/10 02:17 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Skorpius]
izaldu Offline
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Registered: 09/18/08
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Loc:
That Tchaikovsky was terrible. I give him he does try to bring something new, but he fails miserably in my view. Actually , i don't think he reflects much on a work, seems to me he learns the pieces and then interprets it more or less freely as he feels on the day. Tha's at least the impression i get from his Tchaikovsky; the problem is that there is no beauty in that interpretation.

The Rach preludes were "cold". No majesty oe elgance, like it's been said.

Haochen Zhang, on the other hand, whom i didn't know, seems to be 10 times the artist LL is proving to be. And he is chines and he is younger than LL.

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#1495642 - 08/14/10 02:42 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: JustAnotherPianist]
Catenaires Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 160
Originally Posted By: JustAnotherPianist
....and if he were in the year 1400 he'd be an old man.
seriously, in a world where many of the greatest pianists made their professional debuts at the age of 13, 30 is kind of late for someone to begin pulling their head out of their....

you're the guy who gives recitals on peyote right?


.....man that is sooooooooo cool. we are kindred spirits, you and I.



? Yes I am the guy, and I am quite flattered smile. We should have coffee, or peyote sometime. Though, coolhand luke was cool. Things that are provocative are 'cool'. I like to think that there is nothing provocative about a peyote concert... rather, that the true cause for provocation is that there are people simple or scared enough to be offended by such an idea.

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#1495693 - 08/14/10 06:41 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Chris G]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7767
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Originally Posted By: wr
Originally Posted By: Chris G
Why does everyone get so upset when a musician they don't like becomes famous?


Everybody doesn't. Why do LL fans get so upset when people who know a thing or two about the art point out his failings?



I'm neither a fan nor a disparager of LL. I just wonder why so many people in the classical forums waste so much energy trash talking about famous performers.


Why is it as waste of energy? You want to talk about the weather, instead?

And "trash talk" is not exactly how I'd characterize people trying to verbalize the nature of their problem with LL, even though sometimes it does devolve into that. I think some people here a trying to understand the issue with him in a more nuanced way than just "I hate it".

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#1495849 - 08/14/10 01:13 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Emphursis1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 118
Loc: England, Leicestershire
Originally Posted By: MikeN
How could I forget, no really how could I. I'll never forget the videos of him butchering the Rachmaninoff 3rd and looking like an inspired food doing it.


I chuckled when I read your comment. Then I searched for the video and watched it. Thank you giving me a good laugh!

His playing does sound good, at a much higher level than I could ever hope to achieve, and as I'm not familiar with the piece, I don't know how true to it he was.

However, I, like many others had to listen but not watch. If he wore a bag on his head whilst he played, perhaps his performance would be improved!

EDIT:
Although having said that, he seems to be enjoying himself, and is certainly an 'entertaining' performer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85hn8rJvgw&feature=related


Edited by Emphursis1 (08/14/10 01:54 PM)
_________________________
Repertoire:
Complete:
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Beethoven - Op 13 'Pathetique' Mvt.2

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#1495902 - 08/14/10 03:02 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Emphursis1]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Here's one thing me and Lang Lang agree on, the melody in the Prokofiev is very catchy.

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#1495903 - 08/14/10 03:12 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: MikeN]
Batuhan Offline
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Registered: 09/21/09
Posts: 875
Loc: Istanbul
Who dislike Lang Lang he or she is just jealous
_________________________
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Published:
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2 Preludes, Op. 12 in D-flat major.

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#1495905 - 08/14/10 03:14 PM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Batuhan]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Sure, I'm jealous that I can't have such blatant regard for the written text, or that I can't act when I play like he does.

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#1497031 - 08/16/10 11:12 AM Re: Lang Lang--Hurrah! [Re: Batuhan]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Batuhan
Who dislike Lang Lang he or she is just jealous


Haha best argument ever!!!

Or wait a minute... maybe we could also be jealous of people we really respect, like Horowitz, Rubinstein etc. instead? Or are you now saying that anyone who plays at a higher technical level than we, we automatically have to envy? Or does it have to do with how many people watch him? Or how much money he makes again?
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Yamaha P-85 closer to a Grand Piano action than any Upright!
by Paul678
08/01/14 07:22 PM
Do someone have a Sciortino Insta-COILER
by Olek
08/01/14 06:55 PM
Buying used piano for school district - need advice/cautions
by ChoralScholar
08/01/14 05:34 PM
Help with a leg!
by igirl
08/01/14 04:53 PM
Have you had to fire your piano teacher? Why?
by alans
08/01/14 04:02 PM
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