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At the same price point, yes. No question.

I'm not sure how they're priced in the US, but here on average, an average Chinese piano is about 35-50% cheaper than Eastern European. I don't have grand price lists handy, but taking a decent sized upright (Yamaha U1-ish size) the W&L 122, Yamaha Pearl River 125Mi and Brodmann 121 sell for around £2,500. That price would only buy you a 110cm Petrof with a Detoa action. You'd be paying about £5k for a Renner actioned Petrof 125F1. The 125cm Petrof is indeed a better piano, but not in the same price bracket.

I'd agree that a good example of a Knight takes some beating, but there are many poor ones around too.

That is an amazing statement - and I'm not saying that I disagree, being too ignorant except to ask questions.

However, you made the statement "at the same price point."
Fine's 2006-2007 supplement says this as to prices.
The cheapest A-F grand (the 170) is $44.219
The cheapest Bohemia (the 150) is $19,800
The cheapest Petrof (the VI) is $21,900

The cheapest Brodman (the 150) is $14,430
the 187 is $17,160

So, at the price point there is no comparison to the August -Forster, the Bohemia comes close, but is still pricier.

Now, how would you rate them at the same size point? Is the Brodmann comparable to the A-F 190 (which lists for three times the price), or the Bohemia 185 which is $10K more?

Believe me, I'm not trying to be snarky, but I am genuinely curious (and I plan on checking the Brodmanns out soon), but I don't see how it's possible to compare "at the price point" for there are no similarly priced European pianos.

Thanks!

I had no grand price lists to hand, which is why I gave an upright for price comparison.

Thanks for your thoughts, Colin. Understandably, when speaking of uprights, the price differences become much, much smaller. Having said that, how would you compare the grands that I mentioned as compared to the Brodmann?

I'll let you know as soon as I see a Brodmann grand!

I've only seen three Brodmann uprights so far, two 121s and a 125. All were excellent, consistent in quality and particularly good value, so I'm going on first impressions here!.

Of the recent Petrof/Weinbach grands I've experienced, consistency was very variable indeed, even down to casting quality and shade of paint on the frame on pianos with close serial numbers.

I've never seen a Bohemia, but I've worked on several of the sister piano, the Rieger Kloss. Quality of all of the aforementioned relies totally on dealer preparation; since they are so variable from the factory, comparison is difficult. Every single Rieger Kloss that I know of has needed a fair amount of action recentring before it has proved saleable, and the Petrofs have been only marginally better. Admittedly, once all this heavy preparation had been done, they have all settled down to be pleasant instruments, but I can imagine that in the hands of indifferent dealerships they could be nightmarish. I cannot imagine however, that all of this faffing about will be required with a Brodmann.

I can't comment on recent Förster grands.

I played a Petrof III with the Mag Assist action.. did not like it one little bit. The tone was Ok.. not great but OK. The action was horrendous, stiff and clumsy and very difficult to play with any grace at all.

Michael,

There had to be something drastically "off" there. The ones I've dealt with were creamy and light to play. Stiff and clumsy would be the last descriptives I would use. Perhaps an explanation could be gotten by emailing Joe Swenson or John Elliott at Geneva International.

Brick,

(Love your screen name, BTW.. 'He's a Brick... House.. he's might mighty")

It was the worst Petrof action I've seen, and that even includes one or two 10 or 15 year old ones. I think it had to be a case of adjustment. I've played some lovely Petrofs.

The Petrof magnetic action has a different feel. Some people might take longer to adjust to it than others.

I found it very pleasant and light, especially the sensation of the keys staying in contact with my fingers after release.

--Cy--

Read my impressions of a couple of Brodmanns here. Take it for what it's worth, I'm no pro, just an interested consumer.

George:

I happen to agree with your assessment and observations.

For all still not seeing the light:
[or *hearing the sound*...]

The race is on.

"China has arrived".

Rest of the world: "better take note"....

Norbert

I played one yesterday and I was very impressed! This Chinese made piano is a manufacturing project that was dumped by Bosendorfer. It was taken over by some Bose execs who left the company. It's basically a reverse engineered Steinway and it plays and sounds like one too. Here's the kicker: The price is actually affordable!

Paul, Nice first post.

What is a reverse engineered Steinway.

Why would ex Bose guys make a piano that sounds and plays like a Steinway

Maybe the project was designed to take a bite out of someone else' apple instead of one's own.

Too much success in approaching the level of the high-priced original with the low-priced clone would create problems. Why not create problems for someone else?

I am assuming eveyone is aware this thread was started nearly 3 years ago..

Yep, I saw that.
It's one reason I mention "nice first post" :rolleyes:

Oh I love those discussions about 'brands'..

Unfortunatley it takes a bit more knowledge about the various models a maker offers to get "the gist of things"

I've said this here so many times, it's becoming a broken record...

Anybody ever playing a 42 Yamaha E 108 walking away thinking it's a great brand?

Perhaps try the 48" Brodmann 121 and especially the 49" 123 C and M to get a better idea.

http://www.brodmann-pianos.com/upright_piano_123c0.html

Latter just being chosen by a local performance venue out of about 15 others as their "piano of choice" for visiting or hired entertainers.

And it's only an upright...

Norbert

Paul (Upscale Piano Lessons) played a PE187 - I know I was there with him.

Of course he also played a few Steinways, Blunthners, Bosendorfers, Estonias, Mason & Hamlins, Steingraebers, a Yamaha, and at least one August Forster. The Brodmann was in good company ;-)

Because Brodmann was originally planned as a second line to Boesendorfer....

Norbert

I have been wondering - if the Brodmann line had come to fruition as a second line to Boesendorfer, what (with the benefit of hindsight) would have been the effect on Boesendorfer's finances?