Hello teachers,

I hope that you can help gain some insight to the secret of piano playing.

This week I'm still looking for a teacher. I am so bored that I researched to find out what to practice. There are mix reviews on practice materials.

Some people swear by The Czerny / Hanon exercises and some think they are a waste of time.

Some think that practicing scales and arpeggio are important.

I have looked the 2 above options. Czerny / Hanon exercises really turn me off. Now I'm considering learning scales since they require less time to figure out than Czerny and the like.

My question is how playing scale helps playing actual piece?

Why learn scale/arpeggio fingering help fingering actual pieces since real pieces require different fingerings?

For example: why we practice C E G when in actual piece it's a different variation: C G C ?

Scales, for ease of reading and recognizing key signatures in music. Also, for evenness(sp) of finger action as you play both white and black keys as you go through the scales with more sharps/flats.

Arpeggios, are in essence broken chords. You can learn chord structure through arpeggios (inversions, v7, etc.), and through repitition, they easen up your wrist action.

Short, but hope it helps. =)

Most passages in a piece are a variation (or exact replica) of some form of scale, chord, or arpeggio. If you know how to do those well, not only to you gain the technical benefits of being able to play them with ease and evenness, but also in sight reading. You can make assumptions on what you see on the page without having to actually read every note. You see, for example, 3 notes stacked on consecutive lines, you know that is a root position chord.

I do not think that Hanon and scales should be exclusive of one another, but shoudl be done together. I think that some Hanon can be helpful, but it depends on the student. I prefer often to take a specific Hanon exercise and work on that in order to help with a specific issue. If they are the type that enjoy doing these drills, then I just go through them in order.

If I had to choose, however, I would do scales over Hanon.

Why do football players work out when the game doesn't actually require to do pushups and lift barbells?

Scales, arpeggios, and other exercises are exactly that - exercises that provide physical and mental conditioning and insights that are extremely valuable, assuming that you approach them with a positive attitude.

If Hanon "turns you off," though then you probably won't benefit from it, but don't complain about coordination and ease of handling contractions and expansions and different fingering combinations later on.

DD, you might want to spend some time reading through this lengthy topic which came up a few months back. As I recall, there was a lot of meat buried in the discussion.

Another reason for practicing scales and arpeggios is that they help you to understand the theoretical side of what you're playing.

As one example, you asked, "Why we practice C E G when in actual piece it's a different variation: C G C ?" If you've practiced the triads, when you play C G C in a piece, this practice will help you to recognize what triad it stands for and what part of it has been omitted, and this can help you to learn the harmony (the chords) in the piece; otherwise, you'll tend to look at them as three notes that you just have to memorize, without understanding their meaning. In other words, it makes sense to learn the basics first, in order to have a foundation for the variations on those basics.

For the standard fingerings, it's sort of the same thing: begin with basics, and then go on to the variations. When you learn the standard ways, you'll also be learning the general principles that make up these fingerings, and many pieces do use these principles.

About the Hanon/Czerny, well, I have to say that I'm not the most enthusiastic about those, though I used to be. Some well-known concert pianists have said the same, arguing that learning actual pieces of music is more useful, since you'll learn the technique you need to know as you learn the piece.

I'm not saying there's no place for these exercises, but I did often find the Hanon and Czerny often to be counterproductive in my own experience. Both I and another piano student in college got carpal tunnel/tendonitis problems (she got a full-blown injury, I came very close) from practicing Hanon. I know now I was much too tense when I practiced them, and even though I learned the patterns well and my fingers did seem more agile, the relaxation, which is so essential, just wasn't there--instead, I learned to be tense as a habit, a most undesirable thing, which took quite a while to undo. So you should approach them with caution and only do them with the supervision of a teacher who can watch carefully for bad habits, and then you can benefit from them. Czerny I have a higher opinion of, but I still think that some of the studies are too complicated to be of practical use--that is, you'll probably spend much longer on learning them than you'll ever need to spend on learning a similar passage in an actual piece. It could help you out in terms of pure exercise and conditioning, as Kreisler was saying, but I'm not sure if the benefits justify the amount of time spent. A good teacher can help you with what's best for you.


In sum, there are indeed many debates on this, and Hanon and Czerny are considered standard material in many institutions, so the jury's still out. But essentially, I think that most exercises/studies can be beneficial to you in some way, as long as you practice them with good technique.

Some sound advices here. Thanks everyone. This forum is awesome.

Can I summarize it as... Practicing scales and arpeggios help?:

1. Understanding harmony (by helping learn chords)
2. Slightly help sight reading
3. Train finger coordination

Good list. I'd certainly add (or amend);

-help note/song learning, not just sight reading.

Scales Arpeggios chords broken chords, are very important to practice especially as a beginner as it eventually teaches you how to naturally use the correct fingering for pieces of music, it also strenghthens up your fingers and makes them more of an even tone, and if you look at music there is always a connection between chords and scales e.t.c within your music. Lots of Bass sections on the piano use chords and arpeggios. I could go on forever about the benefits of learning them.

What you need to do is find some that you really like - whether it be arpeggios or contrary motion scales broken chords and focus intially on those ones, and then just add a few of the others in as you go!!!!

because scales are the basis for all melodies and chords are the basis for harmony..probly the two most important things in music besides rhythm..

Scales and Arpeggios Teach:
1) Fingering
2) Aid to Sightreading
3) Aid to Learning New Pieces (see 2)
4) Musical Structure i.e. analyzing the patterns of scales and arpeggios in music
5) Dynamics + Articulation + Rhythm (When practicing scales and arpeggios, one should make them musical: piano, forte, staccato, legato, rhythms, crossed hands, in 3rds, 6ths, 10ths, etc.).
6) Time (Practice with metronome) (I would reccomend practicing scales in quarter notes for 1 octave, eith notes for 2 octaves, triplets for 3 octaves, and sixteenth notes for 4 octaves.)

Hope that helps!!

I think there just comes a time for most when you realize... wow! if I just spent a few minutes on some scales it would really SPEED UP my ability to learn everything else! You realize it honors the 80/20 principle; 20% of effort (working on the basics, scales etc) can lead to 80% of your improvement.

Its a matter of efficiency.

It's the fact that scales are literally the building blocks of tonal music.

I recommend reading the earlier thread John referenced. There was not universal agreement on this. It really appeared many people had accepted scales as a given and never considered what they might actually teach. In other words, magic.



That part is true.

There are many possible benefits of doing scales. I think none of them accrue by accident. Whatever you are using a scale to improve must be consciously focused on, or it will have no effect, certainly not an efficient effect.

For a simple example, if you think scales are a method for teaching very even rhythmic playing, you have to be practicing them with that specific intent. If you are just running scales because they improve x, y, and z, they probably won't.

Scales, arpeggios and rhythm help build techniques. It's essential skills if one wants to be good at performing their instrument.

I understand that scales can be boring to practice. I started using rhythm tracks. It helps practicing fun. The one I've used are in a variety of modern music styles. It will help you develop rhythm and timing. Best of all, the tracks were created with a drone in each key to allow you to check your intonation and work on your ear training. This is invaluable in helping you to play or sing in tune and to hear intervals. Check it out.

My piano students do indeed struggle with intonation when playing scales - NOT!

Traxx, you have 4 posts, they are all the same - all encourage us to check our intonation. This is a piano forum!

Genuine posts are welcome but not blatant advertising.

just my penny's worth.

Let's be clear.. You mean check the ones you sell, don't you? You've made four posts, all recommending what you sell. Check the forum rules for self-promotion.

Ken

Hi Day Dreamer~~

As far as I can tell, as a piano playing enthusiast myself, practicing scales and arpeggios prepares you for one of the most fundamental aspects of piano playing.

As well, it seems to me piano playing requires using so many of your senses simultaneously, that working the physical aspect, playing chords, jumping your hands, stretching your reach, legato, staccato, accents, trills, playing scales in the form of octaves and other intervals, etc., playing very softly, gently, playing aggressively, getting your fingers and hands to move independently and in concert, might help you become more physically efficient can perhaps help you to create the sound and music you want based on your other senses. ...part of a pretty cool feedback mechanism. ...so why not, just don't get all caught up in it.

Knowing what and exactly how you want to play something and actually playing it are often two different things. I think one needs to pay attention to all those other senses to really express a piece of music, too, if not moreso at times. It's always a marvelous work-in-progress balance.

Since piano players hear with their fingers and hands, developing a decent touch can go a long way. It's something to consider, anyway.

Glen