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#1485256 - 07/31/10 02:00 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Damon]
Elene Offline
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This place makes me so sad sometimes. 'Bye.

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#1485261 - 07/31/10 02:11 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Elene]
Damon Online   happy
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Me too!

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#1485271 - 07/31/10 02:40 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Damon]
eweiss Offline
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Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
G.W. Bush says...



"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we.
They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country
and our people, and neither do we." -- Yeah, he really said that. smile
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#1485280 - 07/31/10 02:53 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Damon]
FunkyLlama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 359
Originally Posted By: Damon
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Aw come on, Damon. So just because I'm more left wing, that makes me a dumb person who doesn't give a ___ about other people? ='(


No, you are young so there is still hope. laugh Liberal politicians only exploit the less fortunate, however.
Good God, you really are something else.

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#1485321 - 07/31/10 04:18 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: FunkyLlama]
carey Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 3959
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Making broad generalizations about groups of people is both naive and dangerous.
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#1485343 - 07/31/10 04:50 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: carey]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2531
So is hating them for their politics when you don't agree with their views, and then calling them "stupid", etc, etc, ad nauseum.

This goes for both sides.
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#1485421 - 07/31/10 07:02 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: rocket88]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
Politics - how fun!
I avoid it all by listing myself as an idependent on my voting registration.
I'm still waiting for The Piano Platform - Solving The Evils Of The World Through Music.

Technically, from a historical viewpoint, the more outspoken 'intellectuals' have usually been associated with the left, or the liberal side of politics. A generalization, maybe, but they seem to be the first ones rounded up and taken care of when an oppressive regime grabs power - no matter if the regime is a conservative or liberal organization.

With that said - there have been many notable conservative intellectuals in history, as well.

Condemning anyone who was employed by the government during Bush's presidency is a bit silly, though. I wouldn't expect anyone to quit their high-paying job, just because their boss was considered by the news media as a bad public speaker, thus an idiot. Most people can look past such things, as long as it benefits their career.


Edited by Mattardo (07/31/10 07:02 PM)

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#1485424 - 07/31/10 07:07 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
If you really want to talk about celebreities playing piano, there's always Asia Carrera - who supposedly played at Carnegie Hall a few times. Sure, she's not a politician - but she would probably be very persuasive if she were one...


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#1485463 - 07/31/10 07:59 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
argerichfan Online   sick
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mattardo

With that said - there have been many notable conservative intellectuals in history, as well.

Really? What a concept. I've never associated 'conservative' with 'intellectual', at least as far as social issues go. That is what makes them so dangerous, it's all about hate and intolerance.

Fiscal conservatism is a different matter entirely, but with the ascension of the Religious Right (what a farce that is) in the GOP, fiscal issues don't really matter much, it's all about educating impressionable young people to believe that Reagan was greater than FDR, and that Creationism is a viable alternative to scientific process and consensus.

I truly fear for America's youngsters. They deserve better than this. As a new resident of the United States -and yes, I proudly live in a BLUE state- increasingly I find the so-called separation of Church and State a complete joke.

You can point fingers at England for having an 'official' church, but no politician there succeeds because they proudly proclaim their allegiance to the Church of England. But in the US, who the hell can ever get elected unless they make a pretense of being a God fearing church goer? As if being Christian, Muslim or Jewish had anything to do with an ability to govern? Can't religion be kept out of it? Why is this such a problem in the US?
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#1485467 - 07/31/10 08:07 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 14773
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
If you really want to talk about celebreities playing piano, there's always Asia Carrera - who supposedly played at Carnegie Hall a few times. Sure, she's not a politician - but she would probably be very persuasive if she were one...

We need to get her into the next Cliburn amateur competition. ha
It would definitely increase the coverage.

Although maybe "coverage" isn't exactly the right word....
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#1485513 - 07/31/10 09:29 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: argerichfan]
Mattardo Offline
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Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Mattardo

With that said - there have been many notable conservative intellectuals in history, as well.

Really? What a concept. I've never associated 'conservative' with 'intellectual', at least as far as social issues go. That is what makes them so dangerous, it's all about hate and intolerance.


I'll let someone else argue about the stereotyped "it's all about hate and intolerance" viewpoint - that's a pretty broad brush to paint people with. I'm not interested in arguing about liberal vs conservative viewpoints - each side will defend it's side with general statements painting the other side as villains. Nothing will be settled in this thread, and it will only flare tempers. If it were that easy to settle, parties wouldn't exist. So please - just be aware that each side can fling insults at each other all day long.

If you take a jog through history, you will find many intellectual conservatives, and many liberal conservatives. You can find them in Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Ancient India, China, etc, etc. The balance of liberals and conservatives varies according to the culture they are living in, the government, etc.
It's a mistake to think that all conservatives are idiots, and that all liberals are smart. It's just wishful thinking. There are many cultural, religious and social influences at work in how the balance between them is perceived during different periods of time. I don't limit myself to JUST the Bush Administration when assessing them.

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#1485519 - 07/31/10 09:47 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Damon]
Peyton Offline
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Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 2208
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: Damon


You don't have to be incredibly intelligent to be a conservative, but all incredibly intelligent people (who care about other people)are.


Hmm, then I guess Einstein wasn't very intelligent. smile
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#1485524 - 07/31/10 10:13 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
argerichfan Online   sick
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Mattardo

If you take a jog through history, you will find many intellectual conservatives, and many liberal conservatives. You can find them in Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Ancient India, China, etc, etc. The balance of liberals and conservatives varies according to the culture they are living in, the government, etc.

Well no doubt, Mattardo! wink No argument there. My post addressed the issue of American social conservatives. Obviously I spent many years in the UK, and whilst most of my devout Anglican friends were outright conservatives (the Tories at prayer?), I never saw anything like what I now see with the American Religious Right. It is beyond my capacity to understand that mentality, and my apologies.

Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.
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#1485542 - 07/31/10 10:58 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: argerichfan]
rocket88 Online   happy
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 2531
Originally Posted By: argerichfan


Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.


That sounds like hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.
_________________________
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"They may call me a rube and a hick, but I would rather be the man who bought the Brooklyn Bridge than the man who sold it." Will Rogers

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#1485546 - 07/31/10 11:11 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: rocket88]
argerichfan Online   sick
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 7472
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: rocket88

Far far leftist hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.

Well, sorry. From what I have read, they don't seem much different to me. The respective objectives are much the same, and it seems apparent IMO that they need each other to exist. The Religious Right is the Taliban's best ally in the US. And vice versa.

Inb4lock. wink
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#1485556 - 07/31/10 11:26 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: stores]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 721
LOL I had a feeling this thread would turn into political warfare...it's interesting how piano brings together VERY different people XD
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#1485564 - 07/31/10 11:36 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 721
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
If you really want to talk about celebreities playing piano, there's always Asia Carrera - who supposedly played at Carnegie Hall a few times. Sure, she's not a politician - but she would probably be very persuasive if she were one...



Why would anyone with a high IQ and accomplished musical skills become a pornstar??
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#1485565 - 07/31/10 11:38 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Skorpius]
FunkyLlama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 359
Originally Posted By: Skorpius
Why would anyone with a high IQ and accomplished musical skills become a pornstar??
Is 'money' too obvious an answer?

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#1485568 - 07/31/10 11:39 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: rocket88]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 721
Originally Posted By: rocket88
I don't know his personal politics, but Rachmaninoff despised both the pre-revolution Russian regime and the far-left Communist regime that replaced it.

As for the United States of America, he said this:

Quote:
“In his last days he spoke with pride of his newly acquired American citizenship, remarking,

“This is the only place on earth where a huyman being is respected for what he is and for what he does, and it does not matter who he is or where he is from.”


From "Sergei Rachmaninoff, a Bio-Bibliography" by Robert Cunningham.


Moderate Liberal.
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#1485570 - 07/31/10 11:40 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: FunkyLlama]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 721
Originally Posted By: FunkyLlama
Originally Posted By: Skorpius
Why would anyone with a high IQ and accomplished musical skills become a pornstar??
Is 'money' too obvious an answer?


True :P She certainly has the "assets"
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#1485573 - 07/31/10 11:45 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Peyton]
Theowne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 1098
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted By: Peyton
Originally Posted By: Damon


You don't have to be incredibly intelligent to be a conservative, but all incredibly intelligent people (who care about other people)are.


Hmm, then I guess Einstein wasn't very intelligent. smile


Nor, going by Damon's account, are most university professors and scientists. Strange world, eh?
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#1485583 - 08/01/10 12:02 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Theowne]
daro Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 157
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: Theowne
Originally Posted By: Peyton
Originally Posted By: Damon


You don't have to be incredibly intelligent to be a conservative, but all incredibly intelligent people (who care about other people)are.


Hmm, then I guess Einstein wasn't very intelligent. smile


Nor, going by Damon's account, are most university professors and scientists. Strange world, eh?


Ah, but surely you'll admit that the intelligence of those people pales beside the intelligence of the millions of true-blue American conservatives who believe that Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks, that Socialists are out to take away their Medicare, and that not only is Barack Obama a Moslem, but he may also actually be the Antichrist.

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#1485588 - 08/01/10 12:07 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: rocket88]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: argerichfan


Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.


That sounds like hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.


That's a bad comparison, Jason - especially if the only two things they share in common are religious views, and even then they are two different religions.

Christianity has left it's crusading days - they no longer use the sword to gain converts, as far as I know.

Christopher Hitchens is fond of this argument - almost all of his arguments can be boiled down to:
"Terrorism is bad and should be wipe out.
The terrorists are religious zealots.
Religious zealots come from religion.
Religion is bad and should be wiped out."
Sometimes, he adds the argument "scientists are awesome" lol.

You see - that doesn't really work. It's one of those logical examples that people usually work on in school, and laugh because they lead to absurd conclusions.

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#1485593 - 08/01/10 12:13 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
Comparisons are always fun...
Label the historical figures, and their fate:

Greece: Aristophanes vs Socrates
Rome: Gaius Julius Cæsar vs Gaius Julius Cæsar Augustus

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#1485729 - 08/01/10 08:24 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
FunkyLlama Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/09/09
Posts: 359
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: argerichfan


Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.


That sounds like hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.


That's a bad comparison, Jason - especially if the only two things they share in common are religious views, and even then they are two different religions.

Christianity has left it's crusading days - they no longer use the sword to gain converts, as far as I know.

Christopher Hitchens is fond of this argument - almost all of his arguments can be boiled down to:
"Terrorism is bad and should be wipe out.
The terrorists are religious zealots.
Religious zealots come from religion.
Religion is bad and should be wiped out."
Sometimes, he adds the argument "scientists are awesome" lol.

You see - that doesn't really work. It's one of those logical examples that people usually work on in school, and laugh because they lead to absurd conclusions.
Given his uneasy alliance with American neocons on the basis of their strong support for the war on terror, I hardly think Hitchens would agree that the Christian right is anywhere near as bad.

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#1485760 - 08/01/10 10:07 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: FunkyLlama]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
Originally Posted By: FunkyLlama
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: argerichfan


Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.


That sounds like hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.


That's a bad comparison, Jason - especially if the only two things they share in common are religious views, and even then they are two different religions.

Christianity has left it's crusading days - they no longer use the sword to gain converts, as far as I know.

Christopher Hitchens is fond of this argument - almost all of his arguments can be boiled down to:
"Terrorism is bad and should be wipe out.
The terrorists are religious zealots.
Religious zealots come from religion.
Religion is bad and should be wiped out."
Sometimes, he adds the argument "scientists are awesome" lol.

You see - that doesn't really work. It's one of those logical examples that people usually work on in school, and laugh because they lead to absurd conclusions.
Given his uneasy alliance with American neocons on the basis of their strong support for the war on terror, I hardly think Hitchens would agree that the Christian right is anywhere near as bad.


It's hard to tell with him - you have a very good point. He might be biting the hand that feeds him there!
Fortunately, it's not just neo-conservatives that believe terrorism should be wiped out. I don't think it's as simple as fighting a war against, say, Germany - and the only true solution is one that would not appeal to the modern mind, but it's something that's easily used as a political poker chip.

I gave up on Hitchens after watching him debate the Reverend Al Sharpton - he had already shown signs that he had basically one argument, but this was the icing on the cake.
The Reverend won the debate quite handily, even though Hitchens never quite understood how he was losing the debate. It just demonstrated his one-track mind and his inability to adapt to a rebuttal he hadn't prepared for - he kept repeating himself over and over, even though Sharpton had demonstrated the fallacy of his argument. It was sadly pathetic. The audience all loved Hitchens, and laughed at the Reverend - but it was quite clear that the Reverned, despite the audience's hooting, had the better arguments.

If anyone can get a hold of that debate (it's easily torrented in a collecion called Atheist Videos), it's well worth watching. It's a wonder that it hasn't been supressed by Hitchens.
It's surprising to me, how well-spoken and reasoned Al Sharpton was in that debate. I had to change my opinion of both men.

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#1485797 - 08/01/10 10:50 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
Skorpius Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/17/08
Posts: 721
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
Originally Posted By: FunkyLlama
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
Originally Posted By: rocket88
Originally Posted By: argerichfan


Religious Right = Taliban. Same concept, different flags.


That sounds like hate speech, Jason. You need to chill out.


That's a bad comparison, Jason - especially if the only two things they share in common are religious views, and even then they are two different religions.

Christianity has left it's crusading days - they no longer use the sword to gain converts, as far as I know.

Christopher Hitchens is fond of this argument - almost all of his arguments can be boiled down to:
"Terrorism is bad and should be wipe out.
The terrorists are religious zealots.
Religious zealots come from religion.
Religion is bad and should be wiped out."
Sometimes, he adds the argument "scientists are awesome" lol.

You see - that doesn't really work. It's one of those logical examples that people usually work on in school, and laugh because they lead to absurd conclusions.
Given his uneasy alliance with American neocons on the basis of their strong support for the war on terror, I hardly think Hitchens would agree that the Christian right is anywhere near as bad.


It's hard to tell with him - you have a very good point. He might be biting the hand that feeds him there!
Fortunately, it's not just neo-conservatives that believe terrorism should be wiped out. I don't think it's as simple as fighting a war against, say, Germany - and the only true solution is one that would not appeal to the modern mind, but it's something that's easily used as a political poker chip.

I gave up on Hitchens after watching him debate the Reverend Al Sharpton - he had already shown signs that he had basically one argument, but this was the icing on the cake.
The Reverend won the debate quite handily, even though Hitchens never quite understood how he was losing the debate. It just demonstrated his one-track mind and his inability to adapt to a rebuttal he hadn't prepared for - he kept repeating himself over and over, even though Sharpton had demonstrated the fallacy of his argument. It was sadly pathetic. The audience all loved Hitchens, and laughed at the Reverend - but it was quite clear that the Reverned, despite the audience's hooting, had the better arguments.

If anyone can get a hold of that debate (it's easily torrented in a collecion called Atheist Videos), it's well worth watching. It's a wonder that it hasn't been supressed by Hitchens.
It's surprising to me, how well-spoken and reasoned Al Sharpton was in that debate. I had to change my opinion of both men.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h-I-x0mTF8

There's 1/9

But really, arguing about the existence of God is pointless because 99% of the time, the arguments depend on the persons' point of view.
_________________________
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Liszt Transcendental #11- Harmonies du Soir
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#1485799 - 08/01/10 10:52 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Skorpius]
Mattardo Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 1301
AH, thanks alot!

Yes - never are these debates fruitful. At least they can be entertaining on a boring day when there's nothing else to do.

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#1485811 - 08/01/10 11:11 AM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mattardo]
carey Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 3959
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: Mattardo
AH, thanks alot!

Yes - never are these debates fruitful. At least they can be entertaining on a boring day when there's nothing else to do.


The last couple of days must have been really boring for you guys !!! grin
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#1506116 - 08/30/10 05:45 PM Re: Condoleezza Rice and Aretha Franklin [Re: Mark_C]
PeterDow Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/27/10
Posts: 25
Loc: Aberdeen, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Mark_C

Dunno, but.....look at this!!


Hi I have just joined this forum so I will start off with a non-controversial post. smile

Don't forget part 2.


3hearts

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