Hi everyone,

Wondering if anyone has run into a similar situation, and what the best way to handle something like this is?

I loved my first tuning of my new piano, last winter. Fixed up some issues, and made it sound lovely and gorgeous. Very happy. It was done by the store owner, as the person he usually sends out to my area was booked up.

So, today, I had my second tuning (I got 2 free with the piano). This was the tuner who usually covers my area - very nice guy, very experienced, busy schedule, etc.

I didn't have a chance to try the piano before he left, because I was on a call for work (working from home)... so just got to try it, and...

It's gone. It feels like my piano lost it's voice. It seems like there's less "sparkle" (overtones maybe? I don't know how to quantify it) - whatever it was that made me just sit and sigh at how beautiful it sounded is gone.

I don't know if he maybe tried to mellow it out a bit to fit the room?

I kind of want to cry a little now...

Being new to the acoustic piano world - what do you do at this point? I don't even know how to explain it/quantify it if I were to talk to him again?

Do you call back up the tuner and ask him to re-adjust the piano? Is it possible? Offensive? Extra charges? Will he even be able to do that, or know what I'm talking about?

Do I call up the first guy and ask him to come back and redo his magic? Again, he's the store owner - I think it would be bad to go above the tuner's head without at least talking to him first, since they work together?

Am I just being overly fussy?

Oh gosh, I was just really loving my piano since the first tuning - it made such a HUGE difference in how much I wanted to play - and now I just feel like the floor dropped out from under me?

Any advice???

Thanks...

All my tuning clients take their newly tuned piano for a test drive. If they don't like it, I will retune it to their satisfaction and to the best of my ability. Fortunately, I've only had to go back to fix a few unisons that had fallen out of place, but that was within a very short period of time since I did the work.

This is a fresh tuning - I would call the tuner back and explain that it does not quite sound like it did the first time it was tuned, that it does not sparkle or resonate like it did and ask him to come back.

Let us know how this transpires.

Glen

Hi Glen...

Thanks... OK, I'm going to send him an email, and see what he says...

I don't want to be high-maintenance or difficult, but... I liked it so much better before!

Thanks...

If you want a lot of advice from folks that really know about tuning stuff you should post your question over on the piano tech forum.

Thanks Peyton - I thought about posting there, or in the Piano forum - but was a little worried that the tuner (or someone from the store, as I know they read here and know me) might see it...

I haven't heard back yet from the tuner, but I'm feeling a little calmer... it was just such a shock and disappointment especially as the previous tuning had really made my piano sound sooo absolutely wonderful. Like I said, it feels like the piano lost its voice, and has been made a bit more generic...

So, I'm going to wait and see if I hear back from him... and if not, call the store and see if there's anyway to schedule time with the original tuner...

Not doing any practicing tonight though, just a bit too depressing...

Thanks...

Did you hear back from teh tuner?

Hi Saerra,
Sorry to hear your piano has lost some sparkle. First thing I want to throw on the table is that pianos do sometimes seem a little duller after a tuning, especially if you had some unisons (strings for the same note) that were beating too much and causing an artificial sustain. If your ear got accustomed to that, it can seem less lively after a tuning. Usually, though, unisons go out at a similar rate, and the bigger disparities exist between notes, so most of the time pianos sound much fresher and clearer after a good tuning.

More likely, the second tuner just chose a stretch curve that's less appealing for your instrument. It's also possible that he used a different temperment, but unlikely, since most tuners use even temperment (equal spacing of the notes in an octave) unless you specify otherwise.

I would call the second guy back (don't go over his head) and let him know you're a little disappointed with the new tuning. Tell him you preferred whatever settings the store owner used and suggest he ask the owner what he may have done differently. If that doesn't work, then I would call the owner back, especially since this is your last free tuning, and you probably aren't going to use the second guy for your paid tunings anyway.

Long term, I suggest learning more about tuning, with an eventual goal of trying your own tuning. With computer-assisted tools available now, more and more people are doing it, even here on the ABF. Here is a thread I did about self tuning a few months ago:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1420169/1.html

Good luck!

Hi guys,

Yup - I got an email back from him late last night... I'm actually relieved, as he really does seem to want me to be happy with it. We're going to try to connect on the phone later, after work, so he can get a better sense of what I'm hearing.

He mentioned that while most of the piano was still in-tune, a couple areas had gone flat, and that could be part of what I'm hearing...

He also asked about whether it has to do with the "purity" of the sound on each note. I'm not really sure about this, though it could be?

Hi Bluekeys - re: unisons out/beating too much. Thanks - I wonder if this was part of it. I did notice before the tuning that there seemed to be a lot "ring" (and sustain). I figured it was just part of the pianos personality...

It's a little frustrating, because it feels so... subjective and hard to describe!

Thanks for the link - I'll take a look! The idea of tuning my piano myself scares me a little though. I seem to be good at breaking things, and I'm not sure my piano would appreciate my attempts to mess with it's innards But I'm curious to see what everyone else is doing!

Thanks!

Saerra,

Bluekeys is right on. I really don't think your tuner will have his nose bent by you having him come back. If anything it means you are a bit more discerning than many and he will probably appreciate that.

I understand your thoughts on posting on the tech forum. My piano tech posts there and I would certainly talk to him first about any problems I had with some work he did rather than have him see it on the forum. If your tech is anything like mine he takes his work very seriously and will really want to work with you to make you happy with the tune.

I also agree with Bluekeys suggestion about tuning it yourself. I have my tech come about once a year (more if I break a string) and I keep it tuned the rest of the time. It wont be as fine as the trained tech can do but frankly humidity is constantly changing and my piano starts to drift out of tune within weeks of tuning. If I had to pay a tech to keep it perfect it would cost me a fortune.

This is a customer service issue first and it is good the tech wants to make it right for you. Look forward to what you come up with.

It is often hard to describe over the phone or on the internet what you are hearing.

As for tuning your own piano...there are quite a few folks that like to do that, and some won't. There are some really helpful folks out there for the tune-it-yourselfers and the threads on PW for your review. I suspect when the tuner comes back to affect the tweaks to his tuning, you can watch what he does to get an idea of what is involved. It's pretty cool.

Look forward to the result.

Glen

Hi Saerra,

As Glen, Bluekeys and Peyton said, it is no shame in asking the tuner to come back and tweak the tuning on your piano in order to better satisfy you in regards to the sound of your piano.

I too have learned to tune my own pianos and have also done some voicing and action regulation. Piano technology is indeed an interesting subject with lots of variables.

The tuning itself can cause the piano to sound either mellow or bright, not including any hammer voicing. It has to do with temperament and stretch. I’ve experienced this by experimenting with various degrees of temperament and stretch on my own pianos. Also, it is possible that you were so familiar with the sound/tone of the piano being slightly flat (according to what the tuner told you) that it sounds strange to you now that it is “at pitch (A440)”. Of course, these are just possibilities.

Best of luck with whatever you do and I hope it pleases you ear once again!

Take care!

Rick

Thanks everyone.

I was able to talk to him on the phone tonight, and he was wonderful - not at all upset at me, asked lots of questions to try to understand what I was hearing, discussed some of what could be happening, and is coming back Friday to sit with me, have me show him, and try out some ideas for getting the sound back.

Bluekeys - he seems to think it might be what you said, with the unisons... that the sound I like might actually be the sound when 1 of the 3 strings is just slightly out of tune. He said he had another client with similar tastes

So, I'm a tiny bit nervous that we won't get the sound back to "brilliant" - but hopeful - and happy that he was so good about talking me through it all, and asking lots of questions to figure it out.

Oh - and should I be worried if I actually prefer my piano a little bit "untuned" (if it turns out to be the unisons)? Maybe "messy" is better than "untuned" since technically, 2/3 of the notes are perfectly tuned?

Thanks for all the advice and reassurance that he wouldn't be offended if I called him back!

I owned my acoustic piano when we lived in Japan, and there is no tipping in Japan. How does this sort of thing work in the US? Does he come back for free? Do you give him a tip? Do piano tuners in general expect tips? If you generally tip the tuner along with the regular fee, would a for-free visit (like to make corrections) still get a tip?

When I lived in Japan, the fellow who tuned my piano lived fairly far away, and had clients in what was probably a 5-hour driving radius. He tried to plan trips so that he tuned in neighboring towns etc. In the beginning, I never wanted to play until after he left, but after a few times I made a point to, because it helped me tell him more accurately what I liked. Since we worked together to understand what sound I liked, he got better and better at tuning it for me, and over the years the piano sounded better and better. Oh how I miss that piano!

Sorry for the thread drift!

Good luck Saerra, I'm sure you'll be able to get your piano back to sounding the way you want it to.

In general, if you are unhappy with the results of a service (tuning, regulation, etc) on your piano, most technicians will come back at no charge and make it right. They're looking for satisfied repeat customers. Like most things, this can be overdone. I would expect that if you called someone back because you were unhappy with the results, they'd want you to play it before they left to make sure there wasn't another return trip.

Tuners in general do not expect tips, they charge whatever they need to in order to make a living at what they do.

Why are you talking to us? Talk to the store owner, talk to the tuner. They won't bite! What do you want from us - permission? :-)

But do report how you get on. Not whether your complaint was received graciously - of course it will be. But whether, between you, you managed to pin down the change and do something about it.

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the advice/support... He came back this afternoon, and spent a couple hours talking to me about how pianos are tuned, and trying out a couple things...

In the end though, we weren't able to recapture the sound (and much like piano shopping, I was starting to feel a little bit overwhelmed by trying to distinguish and articulate the different sounds.)

He was great though, and very helpful, and very "resolution oriented" - trying to figure out what I wanted and how to get it for me...

In the end, he offered to call back the last guy who tuned my piano, and ask him to come and consult/check out the tuning, and see if he'd do anything different.

He's not sure it will make a difference (they've worked together for awhile now, so tune similarly) - but I still hope it might... one thing that makes me think it might - he mentioned that my room was "very live". The last tuner thought the room "was almost too softened up, almost too dead"... so I wonder if, given that perception, he somehow wanted to brighten up the piano to compensate...

Fingers crossed...

(And it still strikes me as such a weird, weird thing. I never would have guessed that just tuning the piano would change the way it sounds so much. Live and learn I guess.)

thanks!

Saerra, have you read the book "Grand Obsession?" If not, you definitely need to!!

Good luck with your tuning adventures!

Hi ShiroKuro -

Thanks for the recommendation... I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but remembered hearing about it here... and yup, my recent struggles definitely brought it to mind.

Hoping I can find it at the library, as my list of things I need to buy right now is running over a little, especially as I managed to mess up the glasstop on the stove, which now needs replacing Yikes.

Thanks though, can't wait to check it out!

Yuck, saerra. I'm sorry to hear about your tuning issues with your piano. It sounds like you need the previous tuner again next time to see what if anything is different when he tunes it. I do think it is possible, as already mentioned that you grew accustomed to the sound of a slightly out of tune piano, and are disappointed with the mellower sound of an in tune instrument. I know that has happened to others.

The glass top on the stove - holy smoke! It may be more cost effective to replace the entire stove if you can find one on sale. The part alone runs from $300-$500 depending on brand & model and then there's the labor charge for installing it - probably at least another $100.

Thanks Dennis. I know, the whole tuning thing is weird, including the thought that I may have begun to prefer a slightly out-of-tune sound. It probably doesn't help that the piano I take lessons on has been VERY out of tune most of the summer (not my teacher's fault, the church wouldn't pay for the extra tuning)... so by comparison, my slightly out of tune piano sounded pretty dreamy

The glass- I know - it's crazy! I think I might be able to replace it myself if I can get the part, I don't think wires are actually involved for just the top. But, I'm trying to figure out the best course of action - lots of variables at moment, spent too many hours this weekend researching ovens, countertop ovens, convection ovens, double ovens, ugh!

Hope you're having a good weekend!

Hey everyone!

I wanted to post a little update, and let you guys know how this all turned out.

I ended up not having the store owner come back immediately, and instead opted to just live with the piano, and see how it settled in to the new tuning.

Several months later... I still hated it...

The store owner came out and tuned last week - and I love it!

He said that he did a stretch tuning (as you all mentioned). He said that the previous tuning was very good and accurate, but that the tuner was using a machine and tuning pretty strictly by that. The advantage (to the strict tuning) would be that there's more room for the piano to settle in before it sounds out of tune... with the stretch tuning he warned me it could go out of tune fairly quickly, since it's closer to the edge...

He also said that the strict tuning is fine for ~98% of people, and that his tuning is more like tweaking a race car for extra high performance

Anyway, he did the stretch tuning and did a lot of it by ear. He used the machine a little bit to be sure he was not going too far off, but every couple notes he'd go back and actually play music, and listen to how it was sounding overall.

And, my piano sounds like it's old self again It's weird to me that so much of the "personality" can be changed so easily like this, but I'm glad it's back to normal. I even picked back up a song that I was working on (and loving) before, but had to stop because it was sounding awful to me with the new tuning...

Thanks for all the advice from everyone, and... I'm really happy to have my piano back to it's old self!