Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

Trying Something New with Search
(ad)
Calculator Looks Like Piano Keyboard
Calculator that looks like a piano keyboard
Piano Keyboard Calculator

New in the Piano World online store (PianoSupplies.com) now.
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Buyers Guide
Who's Online
47 registered (Baroque Style, alwatson, A2mom, augustm, AndrewJCW, 13 invisible), 1151 Guests and 7 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1490328 - 08/07/10 05:13 PM G7+5(b9) chord
Tango Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Albany,New York
Hello All,Could someone please tell me what notes make up the chord G7+5(b9)?
I looked online and could not find it.What does the (+) mean?Thank you.

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1490338 - 08/07/10 05:37 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Tango]
Steve Nixon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 216
Loc: Chicago
This is also known as a G7alt. chord. Here are the notes that are in there there.




G B D F Ab Eb


Here's a basic voicing for it.

RH: F Ab B Eb

L.H: G

Top
#1490361 - 08/07/10 06:08 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Steve Nixon]
Inlanding Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/05/09
Posts: 1933
Loc: Colorado
The + sign then the number means augmented. The b sign and the number means flatted.
_________________________

A Bit of YouTube
PTG Associate Member

Top
#1490446 - 08/07/10 07:52 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Steve Nixon]
Exalted Wombat Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 1225
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Steve Nixon
This is also known as a G7alt. chord. Here are the notes that are in there there.

G B D F Ab Eb


You sure about that? :-) The +5 would be D#, and there wouldn't be a Dnat as well. Though "alt" can mean just about anything, it typically means a chord with both a b5 and #5.

G7+(b9) would have sufficed. "+" always refers to the 5th, unless stated otherwise.

Top
#1490597 - 08/08/10 12:00 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1663
Loc: NY
+5 or #5 = augmented chord.

"Augmented Chord Profile
An augmented chord can be thought of as a major triad with an augmented (raised) fifth degree or 5. Augmented chords are classed as dissonant and unstable, which means they are wanting to resolve, but not necessarily to the root. A strange thing about augmented chords is that the triad can be inverted, but it will always produce the same chord. For instance: C augmented chord is made up of the notes C-E-G#, but the same notes belong to the chords E+ and G#+, which means they are enharmonic to one another."


http://guitar.ricmedia.com/Lessons/Augmented-chord/



Edited by Elssa (08/08/10 12:39 AM)

Top
#1490607 - 08/08/10 12:23 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Elssa]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1474
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: Elssa
+5 or #5 = augmented chord.

"Augmented Chord Profile
For instance: C augmented chord is made up of the notes C-E-G, but the same notes belong to the chords E+ and G+, which means they are enharmonic to one another."


I think this should read:
C augmented chord is made up of the notes C-E-G#, but the same notes belong to the chords E+ and G#+, which means they are enharmonic to one another
_________________________
Rob

Top
#1490610 - 08/08/10 12:26 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: R0B]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1663
Loc: NY
Yes, what I copied didn't show/copy everything for some strange reason. I was in the process of fixing it. smile

http://guitar.ricmedia.com/Lessons/Augmented-chord/



Edited by Elssa (08/08/10 12:34 AM)

Top
#1490630 - 08/08/10 12:53 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Elssa]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1474
Loc: Australia
My apologies, Elssa :-)

It seems the website you quoted is using non-standard fonts for the # symbol.

Anyway, back to the OP's question,
the scale degrees for the chord are 1,3 #5, b7, b9.

Rob
_________________________
Rob

Top
#1490634 - 08/08/10 01:03 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: R0B]
Elssa Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 1663
Loc: NY
Thanks for catching that, Rob. Yes, crazy fonts there, I guess. smile


Augmented Chords:
http://jazz.suite101.com/article.cfm/augmented_chords



The Augmented Scale:
Also called the whole tone scale, the augmented scale consists of nothing but whole tones






Edited by Elssa (08/08/10 01:33 AM)

Top
#1490639 - 08/08/10 01:17 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: R0B]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1723
Loc: Toronto
In 'modern' jazz players DO quite often play a natural 5 as well as a raised 5 on a 7+5 chord. It kind of like thinking of the +5 as a b13. These extensions and alterations, when indicated as a chord symbol, are not generally regarded as THE chord but more a suggested colour pallete for the harmony and most advanced players use those chord symbols only as a guideline how to construct the basic colour of the harmony.
When you see G7alt for instance, the notes you're going to voice in the chord are derived from the altered scale (7th mode of melodic minor). So really, just about any combination of notes from that scale will constitute G7alt. Traditionally you'll want at the very least a root, third and seventh with some sort of altered nine and a b13. One of Herbie Hancock's common 'fully stacked' altered dominant voicings would look like: LH- 7,#9,3,b13 RH- b9,#11,1.
Eg. G7 would be (from bottom to top) F, A#,B,Eb-Ab,C#,G. That's the whole altered scale redistributed between the hands. There are a lot of voicing possibilities when you think of harmony this way--the redistribution of notes in a scale.
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

Top
#1490735 - 08/08/10 08:25 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Exalted Wombat]
Steve Nixon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 216
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: Exalted Wombat
Originally Posted By: Steve Nixon
This is also known as a G7alt. chord. Here are the notes that are in there there.

G B D F Ab Eb


You sure about that? :-) The +5 would be D#, and there wouldn't be a Dnat as well. Though "alt" can mean just about anything, it typically means a chord with both a b5 and #5.

G7+(b9) would have sufficed. "+" always refers to the 5th, unless stated otherwise.


Yes, I'm sure about that. Remember I'm not thinking of + as a "5th" I'm thinking of it as a "b13". Also, some players will use the natural 5 and the b13 at the same time. What's stated in the chord scale theory books is often times not what is really played. I have lots of transcriptions of Bill Evans playing the 5th and b13 at the same time. It's a particularly interesting color. You probably don't want to use it all the time but I kind of dig it in certain instances.
You are correct though that the altered scale would not have a natural 5th in there. The voicing I stated in my original post. I didn't put a 5th in that one. I could have though smile It's just taste I suppose.
There are the rules and then there is just sounds we like smile

Top
#1490737 - 08/08/10 08:28 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: AJF]
Steve Nixon Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/18/10
Posts: 216
Loc: Chicago
Originally Posted By: AJF
In 'modern' jazz players DO quite often play a natural 5 as well as a raised 5 on a 7+5 chord. It kind of like thinking of the +5 as a b13. These extensions and alterations, when indicated as a chord symbol, are not generally regarded as THE chord but more a suggested colour pallete for the harmony and most advanced players use those chord symbols only as a guideline how to construct the basic colour of the harmony.


Right! smile

Top
#1491230 - 08/08/10 10:12 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Steve Nixon]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1723
Loc: Toronto
However, if we want to be 'by the book' a G7+5 b9 DOES not include a D natural. Although the #5 and b13 are enharmonically the same note they DO function differently. If you include a natural 5 and a b13 in a voicing it implies the Mixolydian b6 or 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale. Whereas indicating a #5 indicates NO natural 5 therefore indicating the Altered scale or Whole tone scale (depending on which 9th you want to outline)
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

Top
#1491411 - 08/09/10 06:47 AM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: AJF]
beeboss Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 1337
Loc: uk south
Originally Posted By: AJF
If you include a natural 5 and a b13 in a voicing it implies the Mixolydian b6 or 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale.


Or maybe the 3rd mode of the harmonic major, that is a sound I particularly like.
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/davebeeboss

Top
#1491710 - 08/09/10 03:32 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: beeboss]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1723
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: beeboss
Originally Posted By: AJF
If you include a natural 5 and a b13 in a voicing it implies the Mixolydian b6 or 5th mode of the Harmonic minor scale.


Or maybe the 3rd mode of the harmonic major, that is a sound I particularly like.


Definately. I really like that one too. Thanks for the reminder:)
_________________________

Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist

Top
#1519864 - 09/21/10 02:50 PM Re: G7+5(b9) chord [Re: Tango]
keyboardplaying1 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 52
Loc: Winnipeg
You could play the upper structure for this chord:

Right Hand: G sharp minor triad
Left Hand: B and F (the tritone of G7)

should give you a nice unique sound
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/keyboardplaying1

Top

Moderator:  sharpsandflats 
What's Hot!!
Piano Summit 2017 - Join Us!
along with Chick Corea, Jonathan Cain, David Rosenthal, Set Rudetsky, Ray Chew, Onree Gill ...
-------------------
Why Do YOU Play the Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
(ad)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Helping you become a better player
(ad)
Defining National Piano Schools
Defining National Piano Schools
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ads)
PD - WNG - MH
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tours
New Topics - Multiple Forums
NH vs GHS vs casio Scaled hammer action (casio)
by Bolster
Today at 03:47 AM
"Sugar coating" needling?
by tirta
Today at 03:35 AM
EBVT for Concerts, Revisited
by Cinnamonbear
Today at 12:28 AM
Dgx 630 vs px130
by Bolster
Yesterday at 11:57 PM
DD wants to pursue a career in piano
by Momz
Yesterday at 11:50 PM
Forum Stats
84,461 Registered Members
44 Forums
174,222 Topics
2,544,054 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
Sheet Music Plus (125)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2016 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission