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#1491465 - 08/09/10 09:43 AM Taking a Break from PW
SeilerFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 746
I have enjoyed my time on Pianoworld. I've learned a bit here and there, but I've also realized that Pianoworld isn't the place for me anymore. In addition to my regular practice time, I will add the time I would usually spend here to the pursuit of music.

Thanks to all who provided good information and insight in the past. I cannot name all these people but I appreciate the time they took to respond. I won't say it's impossible that I will return some day. However, right now I do not see any benefits.

There has been so much spite and hatred going on in various forums: useless gigantic threats in many subforums here that dish out Herculean amounts of negativity. People harboring thoughts about other people without any proof or legitimate reason, assumptions, speculations, etc., often turning quite personal and combative. I will not say that I always stayed out of such threads but in the course of time I learned that it is best to abstain from them. The best practice is probably to abstain from it all as I am not a huge internet person anyway and as I relish my real-world contacts more.

What turns me off Pianoworld is, as I said, the negativity and material vacuity many posts convey, and in addition to that, a phenomenon that could be simply described as "ganging up" against each other and that reminds me of sandbox games during my boyhood. This is my personal impression/opinion. I do not seek to devalue the many intelligent members and their posts on here. However, the process of sifting through and distilling the essence has become too cumbersome for me. I think I need to take this break, and since I communicated with many of you on here during my time, I feel that explaining my reasons for doing so is something that I want to provide.

I wish you all the best in your pursuit of (piano) music.

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#1491467 - 08/09/10 09:45 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: SeilerFan]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
Loc: in the past
I agree with you. Perhaps I'll follow a similar course soon.

Take care! <3
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1491471 - 08/09/10 09:48 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Pogorelich.]
survivordan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 844
Loc: Ohio
I can understand "where you're coming from", and respect your decision.

Happy Practicing,

Daniel
_________________________
Working On:

BACH: Invention No. 13 in a min.
GRIEG: Notturno Op. 54 No. 4
VILLA-LOBOS: O Polichinelo

Next Up:

BACH: Keyboard Concerto in f minor

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#1491498 - 08/09/10 10:27 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: survivordan]
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 1474
People come and go....as it has been for years...

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#1491501 - 08/09/10 10:34 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: RonaldSteinway]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
I'm sorry to hear, but maybe some of us could take an example from you. I too find myself guilty by coming on here too much, instead of actually learning things. However there is also alot of great help to be found on this forum, so maybe you will find yourself come back here again with interesting questions.

As for now, happy piano practicing!
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1491520 - 08/09/10 10:57 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Victor25]
sophial Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 3447
Loc: US
Hope it 's just a break and you'll be back. I understand exactly what you are talking about, however. Enjoy your time at the piano and with friends.

Angelina, hope you won't be leaving too!


Edited by sophial (08/09/10 10:57 AM)

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#1491527 - 08/09/10 11:05 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: sophial]
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 4977
Loc: boston north
It only gets better if 'we' make it better SF. Sometimes familiarity with posters breeds the ability to be a little too familiar in our posting, and maybe that is why some feel like it is OK to be insulting. ???

PW members were very encouraging to me while I shopped and got back into making music once again.

What comes around, goes around, so the saying goes. I was helped, so now enjoy helping and encouraging others when I can.

I also thoroughly enjoy the commraderie of others that enjoy pianos, playing, and music.

Don't be gone long, SF.
_________________________
"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."

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#1491533 - 08/09/10 11:24 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: SeilerFan]
WalkFar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 52
Loc: Urbana, Illinois
I think the Piano World forum is pretty typical as far as on line forums/communities go (in fact probably typical for real-life communities as well). I think that actually Piano World has a higher than average number of knowledgeable posters who share their knowledge, as well as substantial number of curious, honest people. As you say, there are also people who do make Piano World a less pleasant. For me, in the end, I need to appreciate it for the good, and set aside the bad. Also, there is nothing wrong with dropping out.


Edited by WalkFar (08/09/10 11:37 AM)

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#1491543 - 08/09/10 11:49 AM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: WalkFar]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17850
Loc: Victoria, BC
SeilerFan :

Whatever your reasons for your disenchantment with this particular forum - some of which I understand well because I share them - your contributions will be missed, dare I say by many of us.

I wish you well.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1491558 - 08/09/10 12:21 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: BruceD]
gooddog Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/08/08
Posts: 4785
Loc: Seattle area, WA
Why leave when you can just choose not to participate in discussions that offend or do not interest you? I've been hanging back lately for the same reasons, but PW still has much to contribute to my learning so I lurk more than I post. Please reconsider.
_________________________
Best regards,

Deborah

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#1491577 - 08/09/10 12:43 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: gooddog]
keyboardklutz Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 10856
Loc: London, UK (though if it's Aug...
Gosh darn (for want of a better word).
_________________________
snobbyish, yet maybe helpful.
http://keyboardclass.blogspot.com/


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#1491581 - 08/09/10 12:46 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: gooddog]
jdhampton924 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/13/08
Posts: 1009
Loc: Evansville, Indiana
I have not really chatted with you Seiller, but a lot of what you said rings true. I have been a member for over 2 years, though have not posted as much, and the negativity has always been there. It is like that on many forums as already said, but I can completely understand how you feel.

Sometimes it can feel like being betrayed, by what you conceive as people who should be above such things.

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#1491587 - 08/09/10 12:57 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: WalkFar]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: WalkFar
I think the Piano World forum is pretty typical as far as on line forums/communities go (in fact probably typical for real-life communities as well).


I think PW is a lot more civil and nice than many on-line forums, some of which are absolute cesspools of swearing, ad hominem personal attacks, spam, etc, etc.

And as someone posted above, there is a great deal to offer here.
_________________________
Music teacher and piano player.

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#1491602 - 08/09/10 01:18 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: SeilerFan]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Seiler - sorry to hear it, especially since it seems your main reason is disliking what's going on. (At first it was sounding like you were just wishing to devote your time and energy elsewhere, and to whatever extent that's in there too, that's a different story.)

I was a bit puzzled to see what you said, and to tell the truth, had to search my mind for what you're referring to -- and I come up empty. Sure, there's some of that. Early on in my participation here I was the 'victim' of it a little bit but found ways to avert it. I also saw that there occasionally seemed to be particularly a ganging up on new members, and by just a few people. I personally fought against that and joined with those who gave a little hell to the people who did it -- and I honestly thought this had almost entirely stopped. And I agree extremely with those who feel that as internet forums go, this one is unusually civil.

I do think there has been a possible issue lately, but different than what you said. I think there has been a decrease in activity in general, and especially in some of the best kinds of discussion. (It was discussed a bit on a thread recently.) I'd guess some of that is just because it's summer (although I don't know if that's really typical for summers), but I think some also is due to "banning" and related consequences, like other people also leaving and/or just decreasing their participation.

If you do leave, I'm with those who just wish you the best. I'm also with those who urge you to consider staying and either just avoiding what you don't like, or working a little bit to help eradicate it. It can be done. In addition to what I mentioned above, I've done my little part to try to get rid of other things that I thought were pretty awful, like the obnoxious "Do a search" that people would sometimes get when asking something. It was a small thing, but I've been glad to see that unless I'm missing something, that kind of reply seems to be mostly extinct.

I've enjoyed and appreciated your participation here. I hope it will continue, or if you do take a leave, I hope you'll be back. Regardless, I wish you the best. You've been a great member.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491628 - 08/09/10 01:46 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8828
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
^ +1

If you want to watch some uncivil behavior, look at some of the comments on various YouTube videos! Yikes, compared to that, PW is the very model of civility!

I too will miss SeilerFan, though I can somewhat understand where this member is coming from. I have gradually learned to just stay out of contentious threads- which eventually end up being slamed shut by a moderator anyway.
_________________________
Jason

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#1491637 - 08/09/10 01:53 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: argerichfan]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
You're right about YouTube. Totally brutal, yet very honest. In fact, it's one of the only places where you get to read what people 'really' think.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1491638 - 08/09/10 01:54 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: SeilerFan]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: SeilerFan
What turns me off Pianoworld is, as I said, the negativity and material vacuity many posts convey,...

Huh? No way.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1491639 - 08/09/10 01:55 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: argerichfan]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
.....I have gradually learned to just stay out of contentious threads- which eventually end up being slamed shut by a moderator anyway.

Maybe should they be shut sooner?
Not saying necessarily I think they should be, just a question for thought.

For the most part I have felt it's good that the moderators are so lenient in letting things run their course. Occasionally I have wondered why they're not more active in telling people to "cut it out" on those occasions when it's called for -- although maybe there's more of that than we're aware of, behind the scenes. And maybe there should be consideration to closing crap threads more readily.

Maybe. Although I can't really think of much here that's like what Seiler said.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491642 - 08/09/10 01:56 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: eweiss]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: eweiss
You're right about YouTube. Totally brutal, yet very honest.....

Sometimes.
I think more often, the negative comments are just nasty, or ignorant.

And often the positive comments are pretty ignorant too. smile
Some extremely awful things get high praise.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491647 - 08/09/10 02:07 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: eweiss
You're right about YouTube. Totally brutal, yet very honest.....

Sometimes.
I think more often, the negative comments are just nasty, or ignorant.

And often the positive comments are pretty ignorant too. smile
Some extremely awful things get high praise.


Yea, and if you challenge you better be ready for a fight.

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#1491664 - 08/09/10 02:29 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: MikeN]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
I always though of PW as having a high degree of social control, and conduct. I haven't seen that many threads getting out of hand, however this forum seems quite vulnerable for trolls.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1491669 - 08/09/10 02:37 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Victor25]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Victor25
.....this forum seems quite vulnerable for trolls.

I don't think so (relatively).
Looks to me like some people's frame of reference is optimistically high. smile

I've participated in a few other internet forums, mostly non-music.
Music-related forums in general (especially if there's a strong focus on classical music; maybe that's my snobbery) smile seem to be more civil and more troll-free than others, and I think this one is way up there among those.

But then again, we don't always know who's a troll, and it's possible that this site, being probably more "intelligent" than most, also has more clever trolls. smile
There's a thread right now where some people think the OP is a troll, others don't. And whichever camp is wrong, you can't blame them.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491676 - 08/09/10 02:49 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Victor25]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
SeilerF,
You can't go. You are our official coffee expert (Krups fans non-withstanding!) laugh.

In my earlier training days, a mentor used to remind me repeatedly to put on my brass bra (shield in your case) before I start my day's work. It was sensible advice that came in handy a little too frequently.I use it now to browse these "internets". It is an odd environment. You find yourself offending (annoying smile ) people without meaning it just as often as you find yourself on the receiving end of wildly irate diatribes. The whole thing swimming in a sea of near anonymity. It is a matter of balancing the need for communication, sharing and acquiring information and the need to maintain one's sense of privacy and I will go as far as saying dignity. To this end, I find that raising one's shields at all times serves my needs best. I do not get my ego and pride involved. If I sense misunderstanding (or stupidity) I move on and stop responding.

Having said that, there are many knowledgeable and cool people here. I have learnt to like even the conservatives among them!

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#1491677 - 08/09/10 02:51 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: SeilerFan]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Seiler: Since I was truly puzzled over what you may be referring to, I looked to see which threads you've been on lately, and I see that this was the most recent one.

Is that thread the main trigger for this?

I haven't been on there and I only skimmed it, but I could see right away that it seems to fit what you are describing. It's on a different area of the site (Piano Forum) and maybe there's a lot of that kind of stuff over there, but for what it's worth, I think there isn't on Pianist Corner. I can imagine that when people are talking about buying pianos, maybe it's more apt to touch nerves. I mean, talking about composers and pieces and our own playing can touch nerves too, but I can imagine it might be greater about buying pianos.

Plus, in defense of the people who maybe got out of hand over there (I didn't see any of those posts, just references to them), the original post does make you 'wonder.'
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491680 - 08/09/10 02:55 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: Victor25
.....this forum seems quite vulnerable for trolls.

I don't think so (relatively).
Looks to me like some people's frame of reference is optimistically high. smile

I've participated in a few other internet forums, mostly non-music.
Music-related forums in general (especially if there's a strong focus on classical music; maybe that's my snobbery) smile seem to be more civil and more troll-free than others, and I think this one is way up there among those.

But then again, we don't always know who's a troll, and it's possible that this site, being probably more "intelligent" than most, also has more clever trolls. smile
There's a thread right now where some people think the OP is a troll, others don't. And whichever camp is wrong, you can't blame them.


With vulnerable I meant that 99% of the people on this forum as so nice and helpful, they keep 'feeding a troll', without being aware of it. However I could be wrong ofcourse!
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1491683 - 08/09/10 02:57 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: eweiss
You're right about YouTube. Totally brutal, yet very honest.....

Sometimes.
I think more often, the negative comments are just nasty, or ignorant.

And often the positive comments are pretty ignorant too. smile
Some extremely awful things get high praise.

True. But that's what people really think. They let it all hang out because of anonymity. Not saying I like what I read, but it is refreshing to actually see what people think unedited.
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1491685 - 08/09/10 02:59 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Victor25]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Victor25
With vulnerable I meant that 99% of the people on this forum as so nice and helpful, they keep 'feeding a troll', without being aware of it.....

Oh OK -- I misunderstood. I think that's true -- provided the troll is very clever. smile

But I don't know that a lot of it has gone on. I can think of one person a few months ago who kept posting recordings that were purposely awful, pretending he didn't realize it, and seeking feedback. And, for a while, getting it. I don't know about any more than that.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491686 - 08/09/10 03:00 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: eweiss]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19664
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: eweiss
You're right about YouTube. Totally brutal, yet very honest.....
Sometimes.
I think more often, the negative comments are just nasty, or ignorant.
And often the positive comments are pretty ignorant too. smile
Some extremely awful things get high praise.
True. But that's what people really think. They let it all hang out because of anonymity. Not saying I like what I read, but it is refreshing to actually see what people think unedited.

Refreshing? ha
I wonder if maybe you've been lucky to have not seen much of the worst.

It makes me appreciate that I move in different circles than that. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1491688 - 08/09/10 03:04 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
Piano*Dad Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/12/05
Posts: 10349
Loc: Williamsburg, VA
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Seiler: Since I was truly puzzled over what you may be referring to, I looked to see which threads you've been on lately, and I see that this was the most recent one.

Is that thread the main trigger for this?



In comparison to a number of threads from the past, that one is somewhat tame.
_________________________
Grotrian 192 #156455

https://www.youtube.com/user/dhfeld/videos

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#1491690 - 08/09/10 03:08 PM Re: Taking a Break from PW [Re: Mark_C]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6096
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
I can think of one person a few months ago who kept posting recordings that were purposely awful, pretending he didn't realize it, and seeking feedback. And, for a while, getting it. I don't know about any more than that.


PP I suppose? And of course we can't even be sure he knew they were awful and was having fun with us by posting them. Maybe he was delusional and thought of himself as great. We cannot know and will never know... frown
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


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