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#1494663 - 08/12/10 08:30 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: TimR]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: TimR
Piano is approached, at least by beginners, disconnected from time, then with time added at slow tempo, then brought up to tempo.
Hmmm. That's not quite how I teach beginners. I never start a piece "disconnected from time". But maybe some self-taught beginners approach their learning like that?
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#1494664 - 08/12/10 08:30 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: LimeFriday]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz


Maybe you guys should try and sit at the piano for an hour and improvise something completely new.


You assume that we don't do this already?


Let's hear some then!

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#1494672 - 08/12/10 08:39 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: currawong
And jazz musicians as described by Wizard don't practise by themselves at home?



Of course we do. I am referring to the fact that when playing jazz or rock and roll in a live or performance setting you are mostly playing with other people. As well as when rehearsing.

I'd say well over 90% of people who play classical piano don't play chamber music, with a choir, or an orchestra.

Unless you have great talent or are a concert performer, no orchestra's going to be banging at your door offering their services.

How many of the kids learning classical right now are playing with other people? Not a lot I bet.

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#1494675 - 08/12/10 08:42 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
Maybe you guys should try and sit at the piano for an hour and improvise something completely new.
You assume that we don't do this already?
Let's hear some then!
Why do you have to hear it? Don't you believe LimeFriday?
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#1494679 - 08/12/10 08:49 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
I am referring to the fact that when playing jazz or rock and roll in a live or performance setting you are mostly playing with other people. As well as when rehearsing.

I'd say well over 90% of people who play classical piano don't play chamber music, with a choir, or an orchestra.
Well those are your estimates. Mine would be different. I know plenty of young high-school age classical piano students who do a lot of ensemble playing. I hear them often at school concerts. And, as I said, in a performance setting my playing is almost entirely with other people. It's not that unusual.
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#1494681 - 08/12/10 08:55 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: currawong
[]Why do you have to hear it? Don't you believe LimeFriday?


Why not? Music is meant to be shared. It's not a matter of believe, but edification. I might like and appreciate it.

I know I've asked you before to post some of your songs but you're too chicken. Perhaps all that score reading has numbed your mind to the fact that music is meant to be listened to.

Feel free to post some of yours anytime, I'm all ears.

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#1494689 - 08/12/10 09:07 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
I know I've asked you before to post some of your songs but you're too chicken. Perhaps all that score reading has numbed your mind to the fact that music is meant to be listened to.
You really have no idea, have you. Your assumptions are as staggering as your (bad) manners. You know nothing of the music I've written, or my teaching style - yet you pretend to. A word of advice: if you want people to take you seriously, you might try a style which is a little less confrontational.
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#1494706 - 08/12/10 09:29 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
How can I have any assumptions of your music when you haven't posted anything or said what you play. For all I know you could be into new age elevator music and consider Yanni the greatest musician on earth.

As for bad manners, take a look in the mirror. You seem to pop up unannounced like a gnat at my posts and challenge them, and also interrupt posts which have nothing to do with you.

Why don't you let LimeFriday speak, maybe he/she wants to post an hour long improv. Why do you insist on expressing your opinion when it doesn't concern you or do you do that in real life too?

I may be confrontational when needed but you are condescending and arrogant.

A word of advice: Mind your own business and stay out of posts that don't concern you. If I irritate you so much then don't bother replying to anything I write. For your sanity I'd suggest blocking me so you can't even read it.

It seems I trigger an anger emotion in you that causes you to react badly. If that's the case then just stay away.

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#1494711 - 08/12/10 09:32 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: TimR
Piano is approached, at least by beginners, disconnected from time, then with time added at slow tempo, then brought up to tempo.
Hmmm. That's not quite how I teach beginners. I never start a piece "disconnected from time". But maybe some self-taught beginners approach their learning like that?
If a teacher is teaching a beginner to play in a manner that is 'disconnected from time' then they don't just have it backwards, they have it all twisted up and bent out of shape.
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#1494812 - 08/12/10 10:58 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Elissa Milne]
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/09
Posts: 303
Loc: Australia
Wizard - I choose not to post an hour long improv - but thanks for asking. My improvisation is for my own enjoyment, for relaxation, my own way of meditating if you like. Those who are around at the time might hear it - but recording it - and posting it somewhere to prove that I can actually do it would take away from the experience. Therefore - you'll just have to take me at my word.

I think what gets me in your posts - is that you assume so much - and if someone challenges those assumption - you ask them to prove themselves - as though what they say can't possibly be true because it goes against your own ideas.

I don't doubt that you play jazz... and that you play well. Why do assume that others, who also happen to enjoy playing and learning classical music, don't and can't play and enjoy jazz? And that learning classically can somehow hinder creativity and the ability to improvise?

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#1494823 - 08/12/10 11:15 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Elissa Milne]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
Originally Posted By: Elissa Milne
Originally Posted By: currawong
Originally Posted By: TimR
Piano is approached, at least by beginners, disconnected from time, then with time added at slow tempo, then brought up to tempo.
Hmmm. That's not quite how I teach beginners. I never start a piece "disconnected from time". But maybe some self-taught beginners approach their learning like that?
If a teacher is teaching a beginner to play in a manner that is 'disconnected from time' then they don't just have it backwards, they have it all twisted up and bent out of shape.


I teach counting / rhythm / tempo from the first moments a beginner plays their first notes, unless they are one of the rare ones who does it well automatically.

Why anyone would think that rhythm / tempo etc. are an optional component of music that is tacked on at the end of the learning process is beyond me.

Like, "You want rhythm with those notes"?

"If it ain't got that swing, it don't mean a thing" Duke Ellington


Edited by rocket88 (08/13/10 12:55 AM)
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#1494838 - 08/12/10 11:40 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: rocket88]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
I think there are quite a few assumptions flying around here about how "most piano teachers" teach. Perhaps it's how these posters were taught themselves, but it's drawing a long bow to generalise it to all or even "most" teachers.
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#1494844 - 08/12/10 11:47 PM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
saerra Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 842
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
Why do you insist on expressing your opinion when it doesn't concern you or do you do that in real life too?


I know - how dare someone, express an opinion on a public forum. Wow, what nerve!

By the way, if you don't want random people expressing their oh-so-pesky opinions, perhaps a private message might be more appropropriate. You know, seeing how it's actually "private", as opposed to "public" - like the rest of the forum!

Quote:
I may be confrontational when needed but you are condescending and arrogant.


Wow. Really? I mean, really? Because that's not really how it reads to me. Just another unsolicited opinion though.

Oh, and I have to add... Currawong has been one of THE MOST level-headed, calmest, and generally tolerant and understanding of others' positions of anyone here! I've seen her side with and empathize with many adult students here when issues over various "teaching policies" and misunderstandings have blown up. It seems incredibly ironic to me that, of everyone here, you'd pick her to describe as condescending and arrogant! wink

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#1494852 - 08/13/10 12:01 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: saerra]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: saerra

Oh, and I have to add... Currawong has been one of THE MOST level-headed, calmest, and generally tolerant and understanding of others' positions of anyone here! I've seen her side with and empathize with many adult students here when issues over various "teaching policies" and misunderstandings have blown up. It seems incredibly ironic to me that, of everyone here, you'd pick her to describe as condescending and arrogant! wink

I have to agree with that. I don't recall seeing anything but positive posts from Currawong.

I do believe that there is a HUGE difference in basic mindset between my friends who are jazz players and those who play more "conventional" music. However, it is not so unusual to meet people who have considerable ability "on both sides", and there you can see them switch gears, according to what they are playing/practicing/performing/teaching.


Edited by Gary D. (08/13/10 12:01 AM)
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#1494865 - 08/13/10 12:35 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: rocket88]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: rocket88
And if Ms. Gaga were not so roundly skewered by so many, even here on these forums, perhaps people could use her as an example for kids to learn the piano.

She is actually a pretty decent musician. Google "Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta" her real name, and check out her music prior to the Gaga incarnation.

I've seen that video and enjoyed it. Boy was she meant to be on stage! smile
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#1494877 - 08/13/10 12:53 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: eweiss]
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 3158
She definately has "it", thats for sure!
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Music teacher and piano player.

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#1494918 - 08/13/10 02:25 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: rocket88]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
currawong has had these arguments with me several times, it's old hat. Anytime I say that playing by ear is a better way to learn than from a score, she'll chime in with some snippet comment.

This is like the 3rd or 4th time so it wears thin and I'll say what I need to say. She may be nice to you guys but she's got a bad attitude towards me.

So I told her never to bother replying to anything I say and she'll save herself alot of trouble.

It's funny knowing that with conflicts in the past she'll still try to be confrontational. Just give it up and go bother someone else.

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#1494923 - 08/13/10 02:40 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: LimeFriday]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Originally Posted By: LimeFriday


I think what gets me in your posts - is that you assume so much - and if someone challenges those assumption - you ask them to prove themselves - as though what they say can't possibly be true because it goes against your own ideas.

Why do assume that others, who also happen to enjoy playing and learning classical music, don't and can't play and enjoy jazz? And that learning classically can somehow hinder creativity and the ability to improvise?



I'm not assuming anything. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and that of my friends, many of whom learned classical piano or violin growing up.

What I said is that the method for learning classical is incomplete and lacking for a person to develop the skills needed for jazz and rock/pop music.

Many of the best jazz players had a full classical background, like Keith Jarrett, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea.

Herbie said when he first learned jazz, he would listen to records, play all the right notes, but the swing and rhythm wasn't there.

Keith Jarrett said there is a total shift in thinking when playing classical vs jazz.

Here is an excerpt of him in an interview talking about the crossover of classical and jazz:

TR: Would you ever be interested in doing a concert where you played Mozart the first half and then played a (jazz) trio (set)?

KJ: No, that's what I think is hilarious. I mean that is true insanity. The insanity I'm talking about is like a chosen practically impossible thing, but you know how weird it is! Then you have to try to figure out how you can go about doing both these things without them ruining each other in a funny way. I think the thing that can get ruined, that would be destroyed first if someone does both these, is the jazz.

TR: Interesting. Why is that?

KJ: Because if a player gets used to not disappearing into the music completely and starts thinking about the kind of details you have to think about in classical performance, that's not what you should be doing when you play the blues. Jazz isn't really as much about the how, as it is the ideas that you're coming up with. I think if someone sat down and looked at (the people) who play jazz and classical music, it's almost 100 percent across the board that they don't really have an individual jazz voice. If you think about who these people are and you take them one by one, they might be curios, but have not really contributed something lasting. You become a musicologist when you become a classical player. You go back to jazz and if you're a musicologist, then you're like a jazz professor. That's OK, but that's going to probably steal from the transcendent nature of that dive, you know?


The 2 genres are so completely different that the mindset needs to be focused on one.

This coming from a true master of both genres, who could rightly be considered one of the best living pianists in the world.

Here's the full interview:

http://www.tedrosenthal.com/tr-kj.htm

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#1494931 - 08/13/10 02:56 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Gary D. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/30/08
Posts: 4750
Loc: South Florida
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz

Currawong has had these arguments with me several times, it's old hat. Anytime I say that playing by ear is a better way to learn than from a score, she'll chime in with some snippet comment.

Why does one way have to be better than the other? To me it is apples and oranges.

For improvisation, regardless of how you gain the knowledge to do it, nothing written down is going to do the job. I think we all know that. That goes all the way back to Bach. If you give someone a possible short theme and ask him to improvise a fugue, that may sound totally different than a jazz improv, but the idea is really quite close. The brain-power required is high (I would say enormous when done well.) I can't improvise in jazz, and I also can't make up a fugue on the spot. Those I know who can do these things awe me, but I also have a different personality. I am most interested in composing and arranging, and I like to write down my ideas. It's a different process, but I doubt people would say that it is not creative. It's just a different mindset. The jazz I listen to is lean, well-thought out, perhaps more thoughtful and less impressive. That's just my personality.

I remember going to a gig where one of my friends was playing, and he said he was very nervous because of "my knowledge". He thinks that I know more than he does. He does not read music. He's heard me play, and he would like to be able to do what I do. I must have spent a good half hour saying, "But Billy, I can't do what YOU do. You do stuff I don't fully understand, stuff that sounds cool to me, and I wish I could absorb those skills and add it to what I can do."

To me being able to read a score at sight, as well as possible, is something that I value and use. I love it when a student brings in something, something I have never seen, then I nail it and shock the student by saying that I have never heard it. Sometimes that means reading the notes, exactly as they are. This is for something more thoughtful and very well arranged. Other times it means scanning the music and changing things on the spot, sensing the style and what can be added or changed. I also have students play things for me they have made up, asking me, "What am I doing?" In that situation I'm very happy that my hearing allows me to duplicate what they do, but I also love being able to notate it on the spot, if necessary, then talk about what else we might do with it.

Playing be ear, playing from score: to me this is the chicken and the egg thing all over again. In the end, in my opinion a really well-rounded musician can do both, and how he (or she) gets there is of no importance so long as the goal is reached.

You have reading-Nazi's who are ready to comdemn any player who can't read music as musically illiterate, which is how Brubeck came to be told he could not have a degree unless he promised never to teach. Brubeck is a guy who actually likes having a lot of his stuff written out very accurately (see his Nocturnes), but most people do not realize that someone else has to write it out for him. Steve Allen, an amazing improviser who was known for taking a few random notes and composing a tune on the spot, did not read.

Then you have the "reading music is for zombies-Nazies" who warp everything so that anyone who plays effortlessly from music and is just interested in interpreting the music of others is branded a moron.

My own position is that in a perfect world, ALL musicians would read well, have a thorough grounding in composition, be familiar with ALL styles of music from ALL periods, be confident in improvising in at least several styles of music, and so on. The best I've seen reach this lofty goal to a very small degree, though getting anywhere close to that ideal is amzing in my mind.

Now, having explained my own POV, I'll let those who want to tear each other's throats out continue the blood-bath. And I'll go back to lurking... smile
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#1494932 - 08/13/10 02:57 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Maybe this is a bit of a devil's advocate post from me......

Wizard of Oz, I read your comments demanding LimeFriday post an improvisation as being tangental to the discussion. Improvisations aren't *for* other people to listen to, they are about the performer experimenting and exploring. If someone shows no interest in putting their improvisations on YouTube this suggests that their improvisational experiences are more personal than public, and I think that there is very much that is RIGHT about this attitude.

God knows I've been bored to tears listening to solo improvisations many more times than I've been inspired by them.

eweiss talks about playing being for oneself in this sense - and in this sense I completely agree..... posting a improvisation for others to comment goes against the spirit of the thing.....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

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#1494940 - 08/13/10 03:23 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Gary D.]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: currawong
I'm not sure why we're rehashing all this either/or stuff again - note-reading OR listening OR improvising OR singing. Good teachers do all of these.
I'm quoting my earlier post just to sum up my position, which is in danger of being distorted.

(My piano teacher from my teens would be amused to hear I was being accused of favouring reading to the exclusion of improvisation.) smile
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#1494979 - 08/13/10 05:27 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Look, I wasn't demanding Limefriday to post one up, I asked him/her if they wanted to, as I didn't know they improvised. I've asked Gyro a hundred times to do the same, because he keeps talking about improvising and yet I wonder if he actually knows how to do it. Same with currawong.

Improvisations are both for the performer and the audience. Some people chose to just play for themselves which is fine. If you ever heard Keith Jarrett, you'd know the audience plays a huge role in giving him energy and feedback.

This isn't a contest about who's the better improviser. There's always people who are better and worse than you. You are looking at it like a competition to see who's better. I'm looking at it as a way to share my approach and musical personality.

Go to the jazz threads, most everyone has posted stuff for others to listen, share ideas, explore, critique, and simply enjoy.

This is a MUSIC forum!!! If you aren't going to exchange musical ideas and actual music, then what are you here for?

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#1494989 - 08/13/10 05:40 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Opus_Maximus]
Canonie Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 1941
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: opus-maximus
When a seven year old comes in for the first piano lesson in her life you can't really be like "ok let's just play random notes and clusters for the next few weeks!"

Actually that seems like a pretty good idea to me. I'm often surprised how much kids enjoy random improv around 6 or 7 years old. If you encourage it they will more easily acquire a regular habit of playing piano at home, without parent having to constantly remind child. Quite good finger and ear exercise too. But I don't fill the whole lesson with this wink I don't do reading of notes on staff either. Too early and gets in the way. We learn some songs by rote, and some other activities.

Reminder to self: don't forget to do free improv with All your beginners.
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Composers manufacture a product that is universally deemed superfluous—at least until their music enters public consciousness, at which point people begin to say that they could not live without it.
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#1494990 - 08/13/10 05:47 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
Gary D, I still believe playing by ear is more important than reading a score. Both skills are great for a musician's arsenal, but for practical purposes your ear will serve you much better.

Reading is needed only if your sole focus is playing classical pieces. I stopped classical altogether after high school, and now I never read music while playing.

The only time I look at a score is for tunes which have unusual key or chord changes, or jazz tunes which use non-functional harmony like a Wayne Shorter or Herbie modal song like Dolphin Dance, Maiden Voyage, Nef.

And I use it to learn and practice the shifts, but when I play the song I put it away.

Reading is distracting to me and messes me up, I'd rather hear the song in my inner ear and channel that through to the fingers.

If you asked Beethoven what he thought was more important I have a pretty good feeling what he would say. My guess is he would have given up his eyesight rather than be forced to go deaf.

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#1494994 - 08/13/10 06:00 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
currawong Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/15/07
Posts: 5903
Loc: Down Under
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
Reading is needed only if your sole focus is playing classical pieces. I stopped classical altogether after high school, and now I never read music while playing.
That's your choice and I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that it's a bad choice for the sort of music you play. My choice is to cultivate reading AND playing by ear. I teach both so as to develop a well-rounded musician.
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#1494998 - 08/13/10 06:14 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: currawong]
Wizard of Oz Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/12/09
Posts: 873
currawong, I told you not to reply to any of my posts. Why aren't you listening to me, oh wait, you're just reading!!

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#1495008 - 08/13/10 06:40 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Elissa Milne Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 1337
Loc: Sydney, NSW, Australia
If you are a session musician you need some pretty serious reading chops....
_________________________
Teacher, Composer, Writer, Speaker
Working with Hal Leonard, Alfred, Faber, and Australian Music Examination Board
Music in syllabuses by ABRSM, AMEB, Trinity Guildhall, ANZCA, NZMEB, and more
www.elissamilne.wordpress.com

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#1495113 - 08/13/10 10:41 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11586
Loc: Canada
Wizard, I would expect a jazz musician to be about freedom and open mindedness. I deeply resent your apparent attempt to tell me and everyone else how we should approach music rather than allowing us to do what we enjoy and feel comfortable with. Have you any idea of how intolerant and judgmental you come across? This is not how I imagine jazz musicians as being.

I play first of all by ear because I was not fortunate enough to have the instruction that you had when you were younger, so that you can choose to use what works best for you. I imagine that possibly how these instructions were given was not in a good way so that you have one particular view of it. Being able to approach music a number of ways, from different angles, is my own choice. One can also approach the traditional classical things in different ways, and then it becomes alive and probably not that far removed from what you are pushing. There is no one way.

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#1495115 - 08/13/10 10:43 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Wizard of Oz]
Ken Knapp Offline



Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2207
Loc: Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: Wizard of Oz
currawong, I told you not to reply to any of my posts. Why aren't you listening to me, oh wait, you're just reading!!


Wiz, I don't have enough time to get into an in-depth research project to determine where this all evolved between you and currawong, but I have a distinct impression it began with you.

How about we stop it?

Ken
_________________________
Ken

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#1495121 - 08/13/10 11:02 AM Re: Do Most Piano Teachers Have it Backwards? [Re: Ken Knapp]
MiM Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 543
Loc: Pennsylvania
Why do people over here love to gang up like this? I'm reading the posts and I can clearly see some very good points being made by both sides, yet most of the replies seem to want to shut up Wiz and debunk anything he says. This is immature participation, especially by people with very high post count. I didn't see anything Wiz said that was insulting or demeaning to anyone, so why the childish acts? Really this terrible, and I did comment on it somewhere else in response to someone who decided to leave PW because of acts like on this thread.
_________________________
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