I'm looking for one of these. I want great acoustic piano sounding keyboard. Possibly with plenty of voices and sounds (possibly some synth, organ) also some effects...Something I can hook up to a computer and record with ableton. But at the same time, something that could help me learn.

I was looking at the Yamaha-YPG 535
http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail.html?CNTID=5015142

But im open to any suggestions, im also looking for it to be $400-500

I might be asking a lot, hopefully someone with a greater knowledge can help me out

thanks a lot!
Ryan

For a 400-500 DP I'd recommend the Casio PX-130. The question I ask myself though, do you want a piano or a keyboard/synth?
The YPG 535 has "Graded soft touch" with translate into keys weighing absolutely nothing.
Also note that anything that has a MIDI OUT can be used as a midi controller for your PC supported mixing & voice swapping needs.

The only concern major concern most people have with the PX-130 (other than the plastic finish on the keys) is it's piano voice. Be sure to test play it before you buy.

I have heard nothing but bad things about casio's sound.

as for as piano or synth? well, i want it to sound very close to an actual piano. But contain sounds, possible synth sounds. Does the yamaha contain a midi out?

Oh yeah, the PX-130 is pushing 600, over my budget. Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your time!

Save for a little while longer.

Seriously, you're not going to find a better instrument than the PX-130 for the price.

Cheers,
James
x

Casio could quite possibly have bad sound. When I compared it to the other keyboards in the range I listened to the dynamics of the sound (px-130 doesn't just have 4 flat levels), not the recording itself. It was enough for me and it's apparently enough for a handful of bar pianists on this board, but it probably has some flaws.

The YPG has a USB port that works just as good as a MIDI OUT.

The thing I wanted to know though, is do you want something that plays like a synth, or something that plays like a piano?
The reason I'm asking is 'cus the PX-130 is a low-priced emulation of a piano, whilst the YPG is a keyboard.

YPG535 doesn't even have hammer action. is that what you want? for your price range, you'd be better off with a Casio PX130 which does have weighted action.

Assuming you're in the USA, Google Products lists a bunch of online stores selling it for $500. If you don't mind "open box" (refurbished?) it seems to go as low as $400.


If you do consider buying it, make sure you try one out in real life first. A while back I was considering the PX-120, and even got an online store to price match it for $400, but when I tested one I wasn't convinced by the feel of the keys. The sound seemed fine to me though. Besides, if you have a computer nearby you can always run it through a software synthesizer (and there are tons of good ones, much cheaper than hardware synths; some are even free.)

If piano is your main concern you need a weighted hammer action so there are really only two DPs in your price range, the Casio PX130 and the Korg Sp170. Both are excellent instruments.

Oh if you're lucky you might find a Yamaha P85 discounted - that's a pretty good DP too.

Yes.I want the keyboard to sound like a piano, but also i wanted it to contain other voices as well, the PX130 doesnt seem to have much.


My friend who is a musician who plays piano and guitar. Advised me not too get a casio, so im really weary of them. He said they sound bad.

Is there any other DP that has a little more voices with the similar hammered action, and a midi out?

ALso, I saw the Korg SP170 for 499 on amazon...

Your friend is a sample of one. Some people like the Casio sounds, some don't, and some base their judgments on something they heard 10 years ago or something someone else told them. You have to check them out for yourself.

I'm sure a $2000 Yamaha sounds much better than a $500 Casio. I would not be so convinced that a $500 Yamaha necessarily sounds better than a $500 Casio. But they will sound different, and I imagine there are people who will prefer each over the other. (And there are no $2000 Casios.)

As an aside, that particular Yamaha appears to be very similar to the NP-V80, which typically sells for about $100 less, but only has 76 keys instead of 88 (they appear to be the same kind of keys, though).

EDIT: The NP-V80 doesn't include a stand though. (Neither does the Casio, for that matter.)

Someone on another thread said that Casio's like the Hyundai of cars. 10 years ago, they had a pretty poor reputation. But apparently they've made commitments to making quality cars, and now they are apparently pretty darned good.

I think that's a good comparison. I think Casio's got a reputation for making toy pianos (which they do), but they are making strides in producing competitive stage pianos as well. However, anyone that takes it out in public might still be embarrassed about having a big "Casio" glaring out into the audience...

Sprout

It has 16 voices afaik, which should be enough.
Like I said before, you could just plug it into your PC and have how many billion voices you want - you just can't play in a band with 'em.

Casio has a really, really, reaaaaaaally bad reputation.
Nonetheless, the PX-130 is far better than the SP-170 and P85 (same price from Yamaha and Korg [at least imho]) which says quite a lot.

Not unless you pay up.

Also, the korg sp170 has less bells and whistles than the px-130.

I wouldn't recommend NP-v80. It has "graded soft touch" which is absurdly light. It really translates into "scaled synth action" which feels very keyboard'ish.

The problem with the numbers of voices is also their quality - you just don't get digital pianos with a three-digit number of voices with all of them sounding good, regardless of what you're ready to pay. Most of the pianos below 1k$ might have okay-ish electric pianos, mediocre string patches and mostly crap organ sounds (both tonewheel and classic).

It's probably the best strategy to concentrate on the main voice (grand piano) and find an instrument that sounds good to you (which could be any of the brands: Casio, Korg, Yamaha, Kawai, Kurzweil, Roland). So trying these things out yourself is really crucial, because noone here can tell you what sounds and feels best, only what sounds and feels best to them.

500$ is the utter minimum investment for a hammer-action DP, you'll find no quality instrument below that line (unless it's second hand). And if you're buying new, the Casio Privia and Korg's SP-170 are pretty much all there is to choose from (additionally maybe a Yamaha P85 as a remainder of stock somewhere).

No all it says is that you prefer the Casio, I'd choose the Korg first, the Yamaha second and maybe the Casio third. But it's all personal opinion, different people have different requirements from their DPs. If what matters most to you is features then the Casio wins hands down but there are other aspects that may be more important to some.

For completeness' sake, there's also M-Audio and Nord.

But if someone wants something new with a current street price of under $500 and wants weighted keys, the only choices are Casio and Korg.

No, there's no DP with lots of voices and a weighted action for under $500. Or to put it differently, you want lots of voices? weighted action? under $500? Pick any two. But you can't get all three.

However, since you intend to hook it up to a computer anyway, you can get tons of other sounds that way. So if you don't need all the other sounds when you're not hooked up to a computer, that would be the easiest way to compromise. And then your choice is made, because the only thing that meets your requirements is the Casio-PX130. (The Korg SP-170 comes close, but while it has MIDI out, it has no MIDI in, so you would not be able to use any of its sounds with your computer. If that's acceptable, then that would be another alternative.)

If you do want the other sounds even when you're not hooked up to a computer, you'll either need to pay more or get a non-weighted action.

Well I actually wouldn't want to include M-Audio as a quality digital piano manufacturer.

As for Clavia (Nord), you are right. However, they are quite a specialist company, with their "most affordable" hammer-action model being the Nord Piano - which has a 2.000€ price tag (dunno in USD) attached to its nice and shiny red case.

Neither would I, some of their semi weighted actions are quite nice but their hammer action is truly terrible.

I would say that Casio has made some strides and has improved the quality of their products. They still have a ways to go on quality control which seems to be hit and miss. On the other hand, Casio does know a thing or two about delivering value for your dollar, and it's no accident that the PX-330 was given a key buy by Keyboard Magazine. However, few of us buy something based on a review, and if you like something built by some other manufacturer, you should definately buy it. But do your homework first, and don't just rely on what someone else says. Make your decision based on your research of what meets your needs and budget.

which has 16 voices the korg or the casio?

Get the PX-130 or save more money. You wont find better product for this price.

From http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=565 the Korg has 10 voices: Piano x 2; E. Piano x 2; Harpsichord; Clav; Vibraphone; Pipe Organ; Electric Organ; Strings

From the downloadable Casio manual, the PX-130 has 16 voices: 3 piano, 3 elec piano, harpsichord, vibraphone, pipe organ, 3 elec organs, 2 strings, 2 bass. It does layers and splits, and the splits are what make the bass sounds relevant.

Of course, you can't just compare numbers. Korg's two pianos could be better than Casio's three, if they happen to include one you like better than any of Casio's. Plus you should compare how they feel.

If you can't get to a store, you can at least hear some demos on their web sites.

Ryan
Am I understanding you want something with more voices? Casio does make a PX-575R(although I think it is being discontinued). It has around 900 voices. It's based on the Casio WK series workstations and is identical to the WK-3800. The major difference is it has weighted keys like the PX-130. It looks like Guitar Center still has these for $499. This model has been around a while and is being phased out, but if you want voices it has pianos, electric pianos, drawbar organs, strings, brass, guitars, and synths. There are 160 accompaniment rhythms, drum loops and kits so you can create your own beats. It has a 6 track recorder built in. You can layer, split, and edit many of the patches. It has a big digital display. There are some drawbacks to this board: 32 note polyphony, and USB MIDI. If you have XP, Vista, or Windows 7 32 bit O.S. you can connect it to a computer. If not you would need an audio interface as Casio isn't supporting 64 bit operating systems on their older boards. Truth be told, your're better off going with the current line and plugging into a computer, but if you want more sounds, the PX-575 is loaded with them. This would be similar to the YPG 535 in your original post and in your price range.

Can I layer 2 different sounds with the px130? meaning playing the same keys with both sounds?

seems in interesting, but with some research, I have seen a bunch of people complaining that the usb driver doesnt really work for vista or 7

what about this one?

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProKeysSono88.html

is this weighted? it says semi weighted, not to be a pain,but i dont know what that is.

The m-audio in the link is unweighted like the YPG-535. Casio did release a Vista/Windows7 driver that works with the 32 bit versions of Vista/Win7 for the older boards. It does not work with the 64 bit versions of Vista/Windows7. There is no driver for MAC O.S. The newer Casios (PX-130 on up) needs no driver. The keyboard will be recognized by the computer automatically. You do need MIDI recording software to use the piano. However, you select your own sounds from piano to organ to strings to synth using VST plug ins. There are a lot of free ones on the internet or you can buy your own. Yes, you can layer and split on the PX-130

Damn, I have the 64 bit...thats not good.

@ryanpb:
My advice is to get your priorities straight. If you want to have an acceptable piano sound and feel, you'll have to get an instrument with hammer-action. Otherwise you won't be able to control the piano dynamics all too well - weighted or semi-weighted actions just won't do for piano (or are at least a large compromise, too large if you ask me).

On the other hand drawbar organs for instance can't in fact be played right with hammer-action but need a waterfall keyboard. Otherwise you won't be able to play the B3- or Vox-typical styles.

So what should it be?

As I think your priority is piano play, the only options for you are the PX-130 and the SP-170. The SP-170 has the advantage of having a genuine MIDI-Out which enables you to get an external or internal Audio-Interface that works best with your computer and OS. However, the decision should be made dependent upon which sound and feel you like better. And well, better to try and stretch your budget a bit than waste your money on something you will regret only a short time later.

Forget the M-Audio, it's leagues behind the two above. And I said it above and I'll say it again: the number of voices says absolutely nothing.

semi-weighted = unweighted, more or less.
You'd get a synth action keyboard into playing like one by having rings on your fingers, they'd add the weight of the semi-weighted.

Honestly, I think the importance of a "waterfall" keyboard for organ is vastly over-rated. It should have little-to-no weighting, and no sharp edges, but the exact shape of the front of the key I think is of relatively little consequence.


Unfortunately, the SP-170 has the disadvantage of having no MIDI *In* which means there would be no way to use any of its internal sounds with a computer-based sequencer for recording.

My point was rather, that hammer-action is definitely not suited for organ play. I agree that a light-weighted keyboard action might do as well. However, then again a lightweighted keyboard is not suited for piano play. So there is no real "in-between". Whatever you choose, the other will become more like a toy-like feature than a musical opportunity.


In my opinion this feature is completely expendable for a digital piano in that price range. A MIDI-In is handy if you have a multi-keyboard setup on stage and want to access certain sounds on a slave from your main keyboard. The use case of recording MIDI on a computer, then playing it back to the piano to record Audio on the computer doesn't make sense to me. Why wouldn't I record the audio signal when playing right away?

You might not have the piano skill to play the part perfectly. By recording MIDI, you can correct timing issues or bum notes, then by sending that MIDI back out to the keyboard, you can recreate the part without errors.

Okay, agreed. You wouldn't be able to do that without a MIDI-in - in that case you might have to use a software piano. I still think it's not really a deal breaker and would definitely advise to try the Korg along with the Casio.

I agree, I've never used the midi in on my DP, quite possibly never will. I'd miss layering and keyboard splitting long before midi in. Nevertheless the SP170 is a great sounding, great playing DP well worth considering IMO.

I am not so sure LaRate, my personal experience is that on Casio keyboards you will have to check, double check and triple check the keyboard before buying it, I have seen Casios with some keys stocked, speakers not working, etc.... But I have never seen anything like that on M-Audio. My personal opinion, M-Audio has more Quality Control than Casio due to the experience I've had.

Well... I can't quite comment on the build quality of Casio since I haven't owned one. I only tried PX-330 and found it surprisingly good, also I haven't heard much negative comments about the Privia line at least.

M-Audio is a nice manufacturer of affordable little helpers for your home studio. However, they have only one product that might fall under the category digital piano (ProKeys 88) and that has a horrible (hammer) action and not a nice piano sound.

So I am not able to really contradict your opinion of M-Audio having a better quality management (neither can I affirm it). But they are definitely no player in the digital piano market.

I'm leaning towards the px130, as of right now. It seems like it fits my needs and budget the most.

Are you guys sure I can use ableton with this?

Also, do i need to have the stand to use the pedal board?

What would you guys recommend closer to a $1,000 budget? I'm basically looking for a piano substitute for apt living

Create another thread so they can directly focus on your issue.

anyone know about this?

Also, do you guys know, if there is ANY way this could be hooked up to an amp?

Sure, out the headphone output into an amp.

As for the other questions, you can plug in a regular sustain pedal directly. You might need the stand if you want the 3-pedal unit, though, I'm not sure. And for Ableton, I've never used it, but wouldn't expect there's any reason it can't work with any MIDI keyboard.

You probably should go to Casio's web site and download the manual for the PX-130 if you want to get more into the nuts and bolts of it.

Yeah I did, no info on if the stand is required for the pedal. It probably makes it easier to use though.

I hope this thing works for windows 7.

according to this site..
http://www.casio-intl.com/emi/piano/privia/px130bk_130we.html

it does, but i dont know if that is any different then what I would potentially might get.

Ryan,
The driver on the current line of Casio is class compliant. It will work with Windows 7 32 or 64 bit operating systems and Mac O.S. also.This is not the case with Casio's older DP's. Many will only work with XP, Vista 32 and Windows 7 32 bit O.S., and forget about Mac O.S. This a bad decision on Casio's part, but I guess it is a way of forcing you to buy the new stuff.

So, I would have to purchase a new Px130? or that model is an out?

Also, what about the korgsp250...is it worth the extra hundred dollars for it?

Thanks..and sorry for all the questions

Ryan,
The Casio PX-130 is a current model. The Korg SP-250 is an older model that's been around 3 or 4 years. The SP-250 is another strong contender in the under $1000 DP. I guess you need to play both and decide which one suits you. I considered the SP-250 when I was looking and it sold for $899. The turn off for me was it's looks, but it played and sounded very good.

I found it for pretty cheap online.

So, PX-130 would probably work for window 7. Im guessing korg sp250 wouldn't?

The SP-250 has no USB but a standard-compliant MIDI (DIN5) connector, so you'll have to use a MIDI-Interface for your computer.

This can be a simple MIDI-to-USB-Adapter or a full-blown Audio-Interface (external via USB or Firewire, or internal via PCI or PCIe).
So whether it works with Win7 or not depends on the drivers of the audio interface.

LaRate makes a good point. Any keyboard with traditional MIDI In and Out jacks will work with any computer, any OS. All you need is a MIDI interface that works on your computer. But keyboards that only have USB require drivers that may only supports certain operating systems. Which means, not only might they not work on a Mac or an older PC, I'd also worry about them working farther into the future.

I mean, today, I can hook up a 1983 Yamaha DX-7 (standard MIDI) to a brand new computer. There is so much MIDI equipment in the field (none of it requiring custom drivers), that there will probably be ways to hook up any piece of standard MIDI equipment to any computer for the rest of our lifetimes. OTOH, at some point, USB may go the way of parallel, RS-232, and SCSI ports. Or there may be some glitch in USB 3.0 or USB 4.0 that prevents some USB 2.0-based drivers from working, and the keyboard manufacturers may not update the drivers for their older (out of production) keyboards. IOW, if USB is the only interface on a keyboard, it may work fine on a computer today, I would not feel certain it will work on the computer I'll own years from now.

Can you guys recommend a Midi Interface?

If it's just a MIDI-Interface you need, the ESI MIDIMATE II will probably do.

Depending on the soundcard you have, a proper audio-interface could be the better choice, since VSTi playback may be heavy on latency with some sound chips.

They are like 30 bucks too, good deal..

I actually have no idea what my sound card is...I check DXDiag. Didnt really say.

Well... since you're on a budget here, I would try my luck with the simple MIDI-interface and the ASIO4All driver. Maybe you are able to get a good compromise between latency and sound glitches with your sound chip.

If it doesn't work, you can go the audio interface route any time later. These things start at $120 (PCI), $180 (USB) or $300 (Firewire) respectively.

This means the SP-250 will work with not only Windows-7 but is 100% guaranteed to also work with Windows-8, 9 and so on. Those round MIDI plugs are a decades old industry standard.

If the PX130 has USB only, then someday the PX130 will be discontinued and replaced buy a PX140. You can bet that Microsoft will release a Windows-8. Will Casio ever release a Win-8 driver for their discontinued PX130? Likely not.

I'm not picking on Casio. Just using it as an example. I'm saying that it is a bad idea to build a computer interface into a DP. Because then when you need to change the interface you are forced to replace the whole piano. far better to have a MIDI plug in the piano and a standalone $35 computer interface cable.

Some pianos have both, this is the best but if you can choose only one get "real MIDI". Unless you don't plan on keeping the piano more then 3 or 4 years. (If you consider a piano as "disposable" then none of this matters.)

I'm guessing that USB will disappear from computers just like floppy disk drives, serial ports and VGA cables have. Users hate "cable clutter". Very soon the chips that enable short wireless links will cost less than a short lenght of cable. Computer technology changes very fast.

The YPG535 has what Yamaha calls "graded soft touch" key action. This is not even close to and does not even try to be a weighted type piano action. I think that the mechanics of the key action is the number one thing to look for in a digital piano. If the keys are not any good then noting else matters.

That said you must ask "Good for what?". Those non-piano type keys are good for playing non-piano voices. So maybe hip-hop or euro-pop or some other electronic genre is your style. If so you may not even want piano action type keys. But if you are into classical solo piano works you want to piano style keys.

With your $500 budget the only weighted action digital pianos are the Casio PX130 and the Korg SP250. Both are good values for the money.

If you do need all those other sounds, recording and accompaniment than it sounds like you have a computer. Software is good at those things

Bottom line: Look at the mechanical key action first, that is the most basic feature of any keyboard. Only then, once you find keys you like look at the other features.

The problem is not USB per se, but the reluctance of manufacturers to comply to a standard USB-MIDI specification. If they did (some actually do), we could use standard windows drivers (that MIDIMATE thingy has no dedicated driver btw).

Every digital piano has a built-in computer interface (since every digital piano is basically a computer). However, MIDI is an established digital interface and USB-MIDI is - unfortunately - not.

Just in case anyone takes that seriously... no. :-)

You meant Korg SP170.

Yes, the newer one that just came out. It's the only one you are likely to find in store anyway.

The frequent question "What $500 DP should I buy?" is the easiest to answer. The Casio or the Korg are the only options. It is much harder to answer when they say "I have a $2,500 budget."

I don't consider keyboards with spring driven keys "pianos" at all. They are electronic keyboard and can make piano-like sounds. Pianos by definition have hammers.

So, you think with that interface, and that driver, everything should work fine?

Chances are not too bad that it will. However, some configurations can make problems - it depends on a variety of factors such as soundchip, other hardware (CPU/RAM/HDD), the used virtual instrument and your system configuration (i.e. how good your OS is tweaked toward audio jobs, disabled programs and services and the like). This whole MIDI-PC stuff needs considerable tweaking before it works properly (unless you're on a Mac - there it's pretty much plug and play, however they do that).

So no guarantee there, but it's definitely worth a try before investing a three-digit sum in audio equipment that might be overkill for what you'll want to do.

Hello!

This is my first time writing here but i really need help.

I'm about to buy a digital piano that is as close to an acoustic piano as possible. I have played classical piano for 11 years and now i have to move to a smaller apartment and I need to get a DP. My budget is about 1500-2500€. I dont' need any fancy sounds or effects, just a good piano sound!

My problem is that I live in Finland and here there are like no Kawai DPs here. I mean i can't try the new models CA63/93. I tried Roland's HP305 and HP307. They felt pretty nice for a DP but the sound on the lower notes was simply horrible. There were a lot of unnatural "humming" and the sound was just unnatural. It felt like you'd need like an equalizer that would give less bass. I tried to put off the weight-thing-thingy and then i got some decent piano sounds from the lower notes but you can't really play with that thing off.

So my questions are:
Is it possible to adjust the amount of bass on HP305?
How is the sound and touch on those Kawais?
Could anyone recommend any other DP on that price range?

My english isnt very good..

Do you guys think the Korg SP250 sounds better then the PX130?

In your opinion..

Both companies have posted product pages that include sound samples.

What do you guys think about the pX330 in relation to my concerns?

It is A LOT more with the whole set up then the SP250..

Wow, this has been a tough choice..

It will do what the px-130 does, plus it adds a lot more sounds, more features, "real" MIDI connectors instead of USB

SO it has both?

Yes, sorry for my poor phrasing, it has both.

You probably figured out i posted on that other board.

I played the YPG-635, the keys felt quite light. But it had many voices. Its a little bit more that I wanted to spend. But what about the px330 compared to that? Does it feel the same?

Also, would I be able to use the px330 for midi use? for example, can i change a sound with my computer? or play a midi sound thats on the computer through the keyboard?

Please let me know..

prob my last question.

ryanpb;

From Casio Web Site (http://www.casio.com/products/Musical_Instruments/Privia_Digital_Pianos/PX-330/)said that you can use it as midi:

"Performance, Studio or Stage:
The superior keyboard action, piano sound and built-in USB MIDI interface make the PX-330 the perfect instrument to integrate into your studio. When you’re ready to take the PX-330 to a gig, the built-in registration memory allows you to instantly recall splits, layers and combinations of sounds. The PX-330 also has 1/4” outputs for great live sound from your amp or the house’s PA system."

I don't know if they feel the same because I've never played that Yamaha. However that Yamaha does have a graded touch which means, by design it will feel pretty light at the top, and then heavier as you get closer to the bottom.



The PX330 has USB MIDI and it also had traditional MIDI In and Out ports. So yes, you can hook it up to your computer, using either method.

Ok, Thanks a lot man. I think im going with the PX330. I really cant afford the yamaha...Im stretching it with the px as it is..

So thanks for all your assistance.