Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
the Forums & Piano World

This custom search works much better than the built in one and allows searching older posts.
(ad 125) Sweetwater - Digital Keyboards & Other Gear
Digital Pianos at Sweetwater
(ad) Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad) Pianoteq
Latest Pianoteq add-on instrument: U4 upright piano
(ad) P B Guide
Acoustic & Digital Piano Guide
PianoSupplies.com (150)
Piano Accessories Music Related Gifts Piano Tuning Equipment Piano Moving Equipment
We now offer Gift Certificates in our online store!
(ad) Estonia Piano
Estonia Piano
Quick Links to Useful Stuff
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano Accessories
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Topic Options
#1496835 - 08/15/10 11:54 PM Question regarding Chopin Black key etude
Mochomu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Hello Experts,

I started reading Chopin Op10-5, and I run into this. In Measure 31, the top note in the last chord on the left hand, is that an F or F flat? F has a flat earlier in the measure, and has a natural in the last chord according to the Salabert editon by Cortot. This change it to a major chord. But I have another edition from Schirmer's Sibrary, which doesn't have a natural on that note, which makes it a minor. Both sounds fine when you play it at the suggested tempo, but it changes the mood slightly.

When I checked editions available online, I see both versions.
Could anyone tell me which version is considered correct?

Thank you.
_________________________
Current project:
Chopin Scherzo No.1
Chopin Etude OP.25 No.12



Top
Ad 800 (Pearl River)
Pearl River World's Best Selling Piano
#1496838 - 08/16/10 12:06 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: Mochomu]
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6144
Loc: St. Louis area
laugh I can tell you what I consider correct and no consensus will change my mind. F!

(in other words, that's what I've been playing for years)
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

Top
#1496851 - 08/16/10 12:58 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: Mochomu]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Checking Chopin's First Editions Online, this is the passage in question:



This is from a previous passage on the same page:


You can see he repeats accidentals on the same note in the same measure in other instances, probably because of the chord (so both notes have the same accidental), like the double B flat or the C sharp.

I consulted Bailie, but didn't find any remarks concerning measure #31... Theoretically it should be a flat if he doesn't put the natural, but I haven't played this etude yet. Are there no editorial notes next to the natural (in the editions that consider the natural correct)?
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1496858 - 08/16/10 01:11 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]
beet31425 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 3787
Loc: Bay Area, CA
I've learned here that it can be hard to get a definitive answer for this sort of thing, especially with Chopin.

My Paderewski edition has an F natural for that second chord. In the commentary, he writes (paraphrasing here):

In the manuscript, original French edition and original German edition there is no natural sign before the F of the second chord of the measure. Bulow and Klindworth have accepted this version (with the Fb). However, it is very probable that the natural was omitted inadvertently. The key of this passage (Db) and the chromatic progression Fb - F - Gb both support the F natural. This is why we have followed Mikuli's version.
_________________________
Beethoven: op.109, 110, 111

Top
#1496860 - 08/16/10 01:19 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]
wr Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 7840
Badura-Skoda's urtext gives it as F flat, although there's a footnote saying that Mikuli and many later editions have an F natural.

The Paderewski edition gives it as F natural (taking it from Mikuli), in spite of the fact that neither the manuscript nor the first editions show a natural sign there. Their reasoning is that "it was very probable that the natural was omitted inadvertently" and they think it makes sense harmonically.

Top
#1496901 - 08/16/10 04:29 AM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: wr]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Thank you for the information, beet31425 and wr.
_________________________



Music is my best friend.


Top
#1497109 - 08/16/10 01:18 PM Re: Question regarding Chopin Black key etude [Re: ChopinAddict]
Mochomu Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 76
Loc: SF Bay Area, CA
Thank you everyone for informations and suggestions.

I feel the argument given in the Paderwski edition is convincing. I will use the F natural version.

Thank you.
_________________________
Current project:
Chopin Scherzo No.1
Chopin Etude OP.25 No.12



Top

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
What's Hot!!
HOW TO POST PICTURES on the Piano Forums
-------------------
Sharing is Caring!
About the Buttons
-------------------
Forums Rules & Help
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

The world's most popular piano web site.
-------------------
PIANO BOOKS
Interesting books about the piano, pianists, piano history, biographies, memoirs and more!
(ad) HAILUN Pianos
Hailun Pianos - Click for More
ad (Casio)
Celviano by Casio Rebate
Ad (Seiler/Knabe)
Seiler Pianos
Sheet Music
(PW is an affiliate)
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(125ad) Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad) Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restoration
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Teacher wants me to play a "loud" piece too. (suggestions?)
by Tides
09/17/14 11:47 AM
Playing for ~9 months.. Where to go next?
by alexbergauer
09/17/14 11:39 AM
Aluminum plating on Steinways?
by chasingrainbows
09/17/14 11:32 AM
Associate Diploma repertoire
by lacrymosa85
09/17/14 07:55 AM
Questions for those that use dremel for hammer shaping.
by UnrightTooner
09/17/14 07:29 AM
Who's Online
136 registered (ando, alexbergauer, ajames, aesop, 255, 43 invisible), 1428 Guests and 16 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
76230 Members
42 Forums
157578 Topics
2314630 Posts

Max Online: 15252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM
(ads by Google)

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World | Donate | Link to Us | Classifieds |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter | Press Room |


copyright 1997 - 2014 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission