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#1492413 - 08/10/10 06:33 AM Chopin Etude Op25 no11
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
Has anyone mastered this one? What fingering do you use when the right hand chromatics shift to the left hand? My edition leaves me scratching my head and I know it's critical to get the right fingering to get the speed on this one.

Please feel free to discuss anything about this piece here.

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#1492416 - 08/10/10 06:35 AM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
It seems she got the hang of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_dPyBR_eY

Expressive piece btw. But it still got that Chopin vibe, that I never really got.
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1492511 - 08/10/10 10:00 AM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
Derek Hartwell Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 219
Loc: United Kingdom
Originally Posted By: jagster
Has anyone mastered this one? What fingering do you use when the right hand chromatics shift to the left hand? My edition leaves me scratching my head and I know it's critical to get the right fingering to get the speed on this one.

Please feel free to discuss anything about this piece here.


You do not say which edition you are using.
Mine is the one revised and fingered by Arthur Friedheim and he indicates clear fingering in the passages you refer to. The publisher is G.Schirmer,Inc.,New York.
_________________________
Music Teacher (Piano/Theory/Musicianship)

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#1495233 - 08/13/10 01:45 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: Derek Hartwell]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
Thanks, I've ordered the Friedheim one now. My edition is the Peter's one. I've got the first 3 pages sorted. I think it's easier than OP10 no.1 in C which is hard to get the right notes smoothly at speed 176. I follow Peters edition with speed 104 :-)

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#1495252 - 08/13/10 02:24 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
jeffreyjones Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 2290
Loc: San Jose, CA
The thing which took me a while to understand is, the groupings are really in 4 when it comes to the fingering, not 6 as it looks in the score. Once you realize that, then it's easier for the fingers to nail the pattern down. Very difficult piece, nonetheless.

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#1495255 - 08/13/10 02:27 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jeffreyjones]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jeffreyjones
The thing which took me a while to understand is, the groupings are really in 4 when it comes to the fingering, not 6 as it looks in the score....

YES -- lots of stuff is like that and it's hard to get it securely until we appreciate that.

I mean, it hasn't helped me that much yet with this piece ha but without it, I wouldn't have a chance.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1495299 - 08/13/10 03:54 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: Victor25]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17835
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: Victor25
It seems she got the hang of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_dPyBR_eY
[...]


Very nice performance, very nice, indeed! I also like the sound of the Kawai; it sounds very good for what appears might be less than a 7 foot grand, and it's well-recorded.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1495323 - 08/13/10 04:27 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: BruceD]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: BruceD
....I also like the sound of the Kwai; it sounds very good for what appears might be less than a 7 foot grand, and it's well-recorded.....

I think the smaller Kawai grands are much underrated, although of course it depends on someone's taste in pianos and whether they like 'that kind' of piano. I do, and we have a couple of those Kawai grands in the family.

P.S. I agree about the performance.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1495442 - 08/13/10 07:16 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: Mark_C]
al-mahed Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/09/09
Posts: 769
Loc: Rio de Janeiro
_________________________
Yamaha P155 Digital Piano
Learning since ~ JUN/JUL-2009

Working on: music

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#1495889 - 08/14/10 02:25 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: al-mahed]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
HELP!!!

I got to bar 33 and checked the Dover edition for fingering and find THE NOTES ARE DIFFERENT.
In Peters I have - c,f,b,d,a#,f,a,d,a-flat,f,g,d
In Dover I have - c,g,b,f,a#,g,a,d,a-flat,f,g,b

Which is correct?

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#1495895 - 08/14/10 02:39 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
My copy has it the second way.

With stuff like this, generally it means there are different versions based on different manuscripts -- and IMO that means 'take your pick.' (Many people would try to figure out which edition they feel is more authoritative, and I would sort of, but mostly not.) Sometimes one of the versions is just some misprint or misunderstanding, but usually not.

Pick whichever you like better.
If it's a tie, pick the one that seems "easier" for you.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1495933 - 08/14/10 04:07 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: Mark_C]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
Thanks, which edition do you have?

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#1495937 - 08/14/10 04:15 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17835
Loc: Victoria, BC
Jagster :

All three of my editions (Novello, Cortot, and Henle) have the second version you cite. Interestingly, Novello replaces the fifth note A-sharp with the enharmonic B-flat.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1495951 - 08/14/10 04:36 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
SlatterFan Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 783
Loc: Brighton, UK
Originally Posted By: jagster
HELP!!!

I got to bar 33 and checked the Dover edition for fingering and find THE NOTES ARE DIFFERENT.
In Peters I have - c,f,b,d,a#,f,a,d,a-flat,f,g,d
In Dover I have - c,g,b,f,a#,g,a,d,a-flat,f,g,b

Which is correct?

All of the first editions (Schlesinger/Paris, Breitkopf & Härtel/Leipzig, and Wessel/London) agree with what you have in the Dover. I have no idea where the Peters got their version.

I have the Henle edition, which agrees with the German first edition here -- there are differences in the second half of bar 33. The German first edition has the 5th last note as F sharp, with a canceling natural on the last note. The English first edition has a natural on the last note but no sharp on the 5th last note, while the French first edition does not have an accidental on either note, i.e. F natural both times.

(We only have a Gutmann copy MS for this piece, not a Chopin original. Unlike the Op.10 studies we don't have any proofs corrected by the composer either.)
_________________________
Julian

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#1495955 - 08/14/10 04:46 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: SlatterFan]
Catenaires Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 160
or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNudc0FtQE0 So controlled, violent, and thick... I wonder, is the wind more violent and chilling when played by the Russians? laugh laugh laugh


Edited by Catenaires (08/14/10 04:49 PM)

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#1495963 - 08/14/10 04:52 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
The edition I looked at was the Schirmer-Friedheim.
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1495973 - 08/14/10 05:07 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: SlatterFan]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
Thank you so much for your help on this. I will throw the Peters one out.

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#1496015 - 08/14/10 06:39 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
Mark_C Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 19654
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: jagster
Thank you so much for your help on this. I will throw the Peters one out.

Keep it. You never know. smile
_________________________
"Everything I say is my opinion, including the facts." :-)

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#1496053 - 08/14/10 07:51 PM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 17835
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: jagster
Thank you so much for your help on this. I will throw the Peters one out.


Goodness! You may be joking, but I certainly wouldn't do that! Peters is a good edition; they may have used a different source than the other editors did, but that's no reason to discard their scholarship.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1496957 - 08/16/10 09:04 AM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: BruceD]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
I thought Peters was a respectable classic edition and the fingering they have is quite good, with some alternative choices. There's obviously a different source. I listened to the Master Chopin Pianist (IMO) Vladimir Ashkenazy to hear which version he plays and it's not this version, it's Dover/Friedheim version.


Edited by jagster (08/16/10 09:56 AM)

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#1497017 - 08/16/10 10:49 AM Re: Chopin Etude Op25 no11 [Re: jagster]
jagster Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Wokingham, UK
Here's my favourite Ashkenazy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3L3FMcjFfc

Ashkenazy pulls off an interesting variation in which he begins FF - PP - FF. I didn't hear anyone else do this before. He has excellent technique, clarity and captures the emotion. He is a good balance of technique (like Pollini) and the feeling (like Horowitz)

How about Valentina Lisitsa - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx6-Z0nsWnw

She's very good and different but the tempo goes a little off sometimes IMO.

If I manage to play this, I'll post myself wink


Edited by jagster (08/16/10 10:50 AM)

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