Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Composer's Lounge Keen to compose a piano concerto

Hello composers!

I'm keen to compose a piano concerto, but I'm a complete amatuer and would like some help.

It's going to be in A minor, and I've found a primary theme which I've used as an introduction (piano introduction, and repeated by the orchestra), but I'd like to repeat that theme (well, variations on it) in the exposition and the development, but is that incorrect?

Also, how long should each section be for the opening movement (allegro moderato)? How should key changes work?

Apologies for the number of questions!

OH Wow...Piano concerto?!...let us know when you're done with this.....

I don't work with structures so I won't be able to help you.......but it sounds like an interesting project !

Thanks man, it could be a LONG time ha ha.

When I say I'm an amatuer, I'd like to think that I'm a competent pianist, and a good woodwind player (oboe and clarinet), but a complete amatuer when it comes to composition. I don't find it difficult at all to discover themes and I have a good knowledge of harmony, but it's just the structural aspects that throw me since I have never been taught them.

Why not start by composing a small ABA form first?

I agree with eweiss. It'd be helpful to start with smaller forms to learn the ins and outs of modulations and developing themes on a smaller scale.

I'll also chime in to start small. A concerto is a huge work, both in terms of form and orchestration and everything... If you're starting out (assuming that), do you know anything about orchestration (for example)?

This won't be the first thing that I have composed (albeit the other pieces have been in ternary form), but I agree that it is a huge task... I appreciate the input though.

Nikolas, I do know a little of orchestration yes. Playing other instruments (oboe and clarinet) helps with understanding the limitations of certain instruments in terms of their range, passages that might present fingering difficulties etc. I know a little about how different instruments should add to the harmony and rhythmic structure of the piece. What else should I endeavour to learn?

Many composers wrote works based on models. Mozart started out copying the forms of J.C. Bach. Even Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto is based on Beethoven's 3rd. (Seriously - compare them - same key scheme, some melodic similarities, same forms, even the rondos work the same, each having a fugal orchestral section and a major statement of the theme.)

I'd pick a concerto you like and see if you can "recompose" it using your own themes and textures. It's a great exercise in improving one's compositional technique!

Sounds like a good starting place Kreisler. There's much knowledge to be gain using this process. And your work can still be original.

John

Thanks for the input! I shall definitely give that a go I've always loved Beethoven's 2nd, and Beethoven's 5th... and most of Mozart's, Chopin's, Schumann's, Grieg's...

Okay, lots to choose from! XD

Well, it sounds to me like you are already somewhat up to speed with traditional western art music forms. I'm not much of a fan of these forms, but I am also beginning to attempt a "concerto" in the sense that it is an orchestral piece with prominent and very difficult piano. However, it is in a modern form with only one movement, so... I don't think I'll be able to help you much Sorry! I would agree to start small however. If you're shooting for a real, full concerto, it should be a long composition.

Wow Kreisler...u so smart!....I never knew about this.....so interesting...

Hmm but if I were to compose a piano concerto I'd make my own structure he he ^^

As someone with a degree in composition, I'd agree with others to start small, in instrumentation as well as scope. Even before that, what's your desire to write a concerto based on, the richness, complexity, duration/scope, volume....? There are various ways to achieve these, not necessarily requiring a full concerto.

Seeing as you're familiar with winds, how about a mid-length work with flute and/or clarinet, and several string players including a double bass? The biggest challenge I found wasn't writing the piece, but getting it rehearsed and performed, so small definitely helps with this aspect.
Good luck!

Structure is what makes music go. I would say start small, but also start big. When it comes to large, complex forms, the sooner you start, the sooner you'll gain experience and insight.

An invaluable tool comes from Igor Stravinsky in his Poetics of Music. In it, he stated that music arises, not from freedom, but from the limitations we impose. For example, we first have to decide on a key. A key is a limitation. We have to decide on a tempo. That too is a limitation. We have to decide on the length of the piece, the changes, the instrumentation, the mood we wish to convey. In the end, once you've laid down all your limitations, out of it pops a template, and all that remains is to fill in the blanks.

That is one of the methods he and many other composers use(d), and I used it early on to get my feet wet.

elecmuse3 has made an excellent suggestion- how about a mid-length work using the suggested instrumentation?