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Thanks. There IS more than meets the eye.
I think what you said before was misleading, and might give inappropriate hope to the OP.
It's not "for" people who aren't going to major in music; as per what you just said, it merely doesn't exclude them. I think you made it sound like you were talking about programs specifically for people who won't major in it. And it looks to me like they're still talking about people who are thinking of a much more serious focus on music than the OP is indicating. I think they include mention of "minoring" mainly so top-notch candidates who aren't sure if they'll be majoring in music won't feel they can't apply for it.

Also.....continuing about there being "more than meets the eye": They say it's for people ".....with extraordinary talent...." Of course it's possible that the OP meets that, but, as per what I said (and no knock on him, because very few people would), it doesn't seem from 'reading between the lines' that he would. I wouldn't have either, so maybe I'm projecting.

So.....I'm left still doubting that there are music scholarship programs designated for people who don't intend to concentrate on it more than what the OP is indicating.

Well, you may think it's misleading, but I think it's something that good musicians who want to major in something else can at least try for.

P.S. It looks like the Stanford program allows more wiggle room on how "extraordinary" the person has to be, but I'd guess strongly that even for that program you have to be way up there.
Plus of course you need to meet the general requirements for Stanford, which are at the highest level.

I guess what it comes down to is, do we want to be giving advice that has only a small chance of being relevant to the OP?
I would be wary of suggesting things like this unless the person has shown or told us something that tells us he has a good chance of being in that ballpark. We don't know for sure that the OP isn't, but we haven't seen anything that remotely suggests he is -- which, as I said, is no knock on him, because most people wouldn't. When we go ahead anyway and point people in directions like this, I think we are much more likely to mislead them than to serve them well. It seems that the OP's best shot might be to view music as something that enhances his overall application and his chances for a 'regular' scholarship.

Look, I have no idea how talented or well trained the OP is. The point is that there is money out there for students who are good musicians, but who would prefer to study engineering or economics as their primary concentration. That's a fact. Who knows whether or not it's relevant to the OP. He asked whether or not money was available. It is. It's up to him to follow that golden road if he is able.

I suspect Brian is also concerned with how music as an extracurricular activity can be presented in a way that enhances his chances of acceptance. That's simple too. Use the application process to highlight your musical training, and send along a demo CD as evidence. Having talked with music faculty, I have a sense of how that process works. The admissions office sends promising CDs or DVDs over to the music department. If they are judged worthwhile, that information is conveyed back to the admissions office. The applicant can get a bit of a positive bump from that.

Why not. Feed the person as much information as possible and it's up to them to figure out which things might be relevant to their own situation. He can visit a website as quickly as you or I can to make a quick determination of whether the scholarship is appropriate for them. It's not like he's going to start booking plane trips based on some general recommendations from this forum.

Plus PD's post that you're responding to wasn't a direct response to the OP but a reply to someone else asking for specific information on a general statement (there are scholarship opportunities that factor in musical performance abilities but are not necessarily for music majors). Therefore I took PD's post not to be meant necessarily for the OP, but to address the question. I think his main point is that such beasts exist and so it's worth fishing around for some more.

I personally found the information interesting and useful and even if those specific examples don't meet the OP's needs, I don't think they were OT and should at the very least get the OP to start googling other potential opportunities.

You'll probably just put it down in any sort of supplementary applications where you can list what you do other than schoolwork, that's how it worked for me. If you've participated in competitions, going though some kind of grading system (like RCM in Canada), that all helps to show that you've been a musician all of this time.

I think what I said is a good general rule for giving someone guidance: Emphasize what seems likely to be relevant. Even if doing otherwise doesn't mislead the person (which with this particular example I think it probably would), it usually fails to help point the person in a good direction.

And isn't that what we should most try to do?

How is mentioning the existence of music scholarships for students who do not plan to major in performance a misleading approach. NOT to do so would be more misleading. Why pass a priori judgment upon what this person is capable of achieving. Why pass judgment (by self censoring) upon what other readers of this thread might be capable of accomplishing? Every reader is aware of their own situation and can use the information accordingly. If Brian's best hope is to get into a completely non-selective school, he will chuckle at my mention of 16K scholarships at Case Western Reserve. If some other reader happens upon this thread who is good enough for the Cleveland Institute, but who would prefer an engineering degree from Case while they hone their art, then I have just provided some potentially very useful information.

Because when you brought it up, you made it sound like a program geared specifically toward non-majors.

Let me emphasize (if I need to) .....this is all "IMO."
And I do feel strongly about it. I think too much guidance (especially maybe on internet boards) refers to the unlikely rather than the likely, and I think that misleads the person. But obviously there can be different views -- and we're seeing them here.

I'm probably going to be majoring in engineering, and minoring in music (if those two fields are vague enough for you. I'm young, how should I know what I'm doing with my life?) so I will definitely continue studying piano in college seriously. It's the closest thing I have to a passion (and cars, but that's a whole other discussion!)

Monica, that is part of my fear, that a CD would be discarded or something along those lines. I'll have to talk to the college about that. And like Avguste mentioned, someone in the music department as well.

Jeff, I'll try to avoid insulting faculty in my essays. It will be difficult though...
Anyway, I did take plenty of advanced courses, and regret every lost hour of my free time haha. I suppose it will eventually pay off though. My test scores keep me optomistic.

As to speculations on my skill level, I'd say I'm somewhere in the broad range of intermediate to advanced. But more importantly, I have a...'knack' shall we say, for piano, and am very serious about continuing my study and would like every opportunity to do so. I wouldn't call myself extraordinary (yet, at least) but I have some potential.

Piano*Dad, you're spot on about this helping my chances of acceptance. This could help me stand out against other applicants, at least a bit. Is that standard practice for them to take all recordings sent in with applications and shift them to the music department? Because that is very reassuring...

Great reply, Brian!
And it sounds like you have a good handle on where you are.

Mark,

What is so difficult about this:

From the Case website:



I do not understand why you are fighting so hard about the parsing of my sentence. Indeed, the scholarships of the sort I am discussing are not ONLY for engineers and sociologists. Music majors can indeed apply. But the language seems pretty clear. They are attempting to encourage non-majors to continue their study of music at a high level. Why else would they use the 'designed for ... but who' language?

BTW.......P.S. .....

If that's anywhere near typical, obviously it's very unfortunate, and maybe part of why Brian has been sort of at a loss.

I don't think it necessarily depends on the sheer 'numbers.' In my high school class there were over 900 students (yes, per "class," not the whole school), we had just one "college advisor," and anyone who wanted this kind of attention and advice from him was able to get it. Maybe it's different now, for a lot of reasons including that more kids are going to college.

I think most of us would agree -- even without any illusions that we're going to change the world -- that if it's like that, it means the school needs another college advisor or two.

I'm not. I'm certainly not parsing your sentence; I'm talking about what your emphasis seemed to be, and besides, after my initial reply, I've been just answering what people are addressing to me about it, including when you asked what I thought had been misleading.

BTW.....we do have different takes on what that Richmond program is saying, including (as I said) that I don't agree they mean to particularly encourage non-music majors about it. In any event, what is absolutely clear is that they're emphasizing that the candidates have to be "extraordinary," and I thought that was the main issue about it. To the extent that in some of my posts I've talked more about the "non-major" part of it, that was because I was trying not to talk so much about things that are personal about the OP, and anyway I do think both aspects are significant.

Brian,

I really can't say for sure what constitutes standard practice. At several of the schools my son is considering, that's what he was told. I imagine that this is the general approach. How could the admissions staff, with their amateur eyes and ears, effectively judge piano performance, dance routines, violin sonatas and the like. Well, they could try, but then they would be, well, amateurish!

To put some aspects of this discussion into a more focused perspective, why not tell us some of the more recent repertoire you have studied. Have you participated in any performances? If so, with what repertoire?

Regards,

I agree with you AZNpiano and do the same thing with my students starting in middle school.

As far as sending a recording, all of my students do when it comes time to apply to college. Over the past 5 none of my graduating seniors have gone on to be music majors, but they are attending or have graduated from great universities and colleges-Harvard, St. Andrews, U Chicago, MIT, Stanford, Yale to name just some. In that group we have future physicians, engineers, scientist...all of whom still play the piano and all sent a recording of themselves and their music bio, history etc.

Some counselors say, don't bother, but I've found that many colleges and universities like to see and hear stick-to-it-ive-ness

TakeCare, Lou

It can't hurt to send the CD, even if (as I fear) many admissions officers won't bother to play it. Simply having it as a physical addendum to the application tells the admissions office that the applicant is serious about piano and not bluffing about being able to play.

P*D, good point about the need for experienced eyes and ears. It's only logical that that is how they might handle it (not that the world runs on logic).

BruceD, I haven't done any performances...at least in quite some time. I started playing when I was 5 and stopped at age 11 or so, probably because I had no feel for the emotion in the music as a child. I only picked piano back up a year ago (shortly before my 17th birthday), and resumed with a teacher this summer. I've just finished a few Nocturnes (Chopin, of course) and while I am wrapping up #19, I am working on Elegie Op. 3 No. 1 by Rachmaninoff. That piece would be a good measure of my skill set...I'm not breezing through it, but it is definitely within reach. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKpUjssa3v8 if you haven't heard it. Though, I think that piano roll is a bit faster than what is humanly possible for the climax starting at 2:36!)

Brian: I can't help noticing how well and how maturely you WRITE. You talk quite modestly about your piano level, but it looks like you're very high on some things -- I would guess you're pretty high in some other academic areas also besides writing -- and I would guess you'll be a very appealing college candidate in an overall way. Do you not think you'd be highly competitive for a "regular" scholarship? (For which, as I said, the music would enhance your chances.) And if so, why such a focus on music scholarships, which would seem to be a longer shot?

One might ask, why not try in both directions. But sometimes when you do that, it takes away from how well you can focus on the better path.