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Well thank you Mark. But it's hard not to be modest about these things when at this moment itunes is presenting me with Horowitz positively flying through the coda to Chopin's Ballade 1...and with such inspiring energy as well. There is just so far to go yet...

Yes, I am highly performing in several academic areas, but the problem is, expectations are also very high. It is extremely intimidating that the top colleges not only demand a 4.5 GPA, but you must also be captain of the football team, in leadership, drama, art, AP classes, music, as well as heavily invested in one or two extracurriculars like clubs...and on top of that, you have to have something special that stands out. You have to be a jack of all trades, and a specialist as well. Maybe I'm being unrealistic in that view, but I feel like I need everything I can get...because all I really have going for me is academics, and piano...

I probably would be competitive in a regular scholarship, but frankly, with costs of good colleges as they are, I need to be on top of my game or I'll end up with well over $100,000 in debt when I'm 23 or 24...so I will be shooting for both, to redirect this rant or ramble...whatever you may call this stress derived speech.

Judging where I'm at in terms of my level of playing, do you think I have a shot with any of this? Do you think my being able to play at this level might earn a scholarship, or be worth sending to a college?

Absolutely, as does just about everyone else.
All I'm saying is that it looks like you'd have a good chance for a "regular" scholarship, and that the music would help you for that, and that I didn't see why you seemed to be focusing earlier on the possibility of a "music scholarship" per se.


I think I've pretty well covered that. Of course I could be wrong, but from what you've indicated, I think "music scholarship" per se would be an extreme long shot and probably a distraction from the good possibilities, like a "regular" scholarship. Even sending a CD could be a big distraction -- not the fact of sending it, but the focus on it and the time and effort that I imagine you'd be spending on preparing it. (I know how those things can be -- "sending a CD" usually involves a lot more than just "sending a CD." It can take over your life for a while.) I think that for your purposes, just mentioning about your music on your applications and talking about it in your interviews are likely to be sufficient and even best. But, regarding all of these things, please rely more on what people like your piano teacher and (maybe even) the college advisor might tell you.

Where did you get this info??

The last time I checked, community service still counts a lot.

I was in a similar boat in 11th grade. My counselor gave me zero info. My high school career was completely misguided. I wasted a billion hours with the pointless AP classes.

But now you have the Internet. My best advice to you would be to conduct a thorough research. Look up all the colleges you want to apply to and see what scholarships they offer. The more you research, the better you'd be informed.

I assumed it was hyperbole.
i.e. an exaggeration
......and that he just meant the basic point, which I think is valid.

Absolutely he needs to do what you said about checking on the internet, and for most people that would probably tell them most of what they're looking for, but I think it's doubtful that what he's wondering about would be covered there. I think most likely if he's going to be getting info directly from the colleges, it'll probably need to be from his asking.

The concept of a 4.0 'A' being replaced with a 4.+ 'Super A,' frightening though it is, has been with us for some time now.

You're right about community service projects, though. It may not be enough to root out the totally selfish, me-first yuppie mentality rightly deplored by admissions officers (and alumni associations), but it does show some heart, and that counts for something.

One of my favorite projects over the years was helping community groups plant street trees in San Francisco. I still see some of them when I go there.

For the most competitive colleges, he's not far off. It's not hyperbole that some of the most selective colleges could have filled their entire freshmen classes with valedictorians and had plenty left over.

Of course a lot of students they end up admitting *aren't* valedictorians, but they have made themselves distinctive in some other way. This means more than just belonging to a lot of clubs but rather showing leadership in some setting. In other words, "volunteered 5 hours a week at a soup kitchen" is nice, but it won't help nearly as much as something like "started a community organization that collected day-old bread from supermarkets and redistributed it to homeless shelters" or the like.

Here are my views on this. If you're not going to be a music major,
then I don't believe a video or audio clip is necessary. On your
application, they want to see how you write, so impress them
with a vivid written description of your piano experience.

However, your post seems to suggest that you're applying
to expensive, selective schools that you can't afford without
financial aid. This, in my experience, is a very bad idea.
The scholarship fund at such schools is limited, and so
you're likely to get only partial funding at best, which means
that someone is going to have to take out a loan for the
difference. This makes no sense in my opinion, because the
course content at any jr. college or state univ. is the same
as at the most selective schools. So the smart thing to
do is to go to the nearest state school. If you don't believe
this, then try pulling down a 4.0 at a state school. That's no
snap to do, because the course content is the same as
at the most selective schools. With a 4.0 at a state school,
you'd have your pick of grad schools.

Another option is to enter the military. You'd get free training
and then they'll pay for college when you get out. This is
such a good deal, that it is a wonder that high school
counselors don't have this at the top of their list of options
for students.

Still another option is to forget about college and go right
to work after high school. Heck, you've learned all you
need for life by about the eighth grade anyway. As for what
to go into, in my opinion, carpentry can't be beat (you
can build your own house). The Bible is supposed to
have many words of wisdom for people, and I think it's no
coincidence that Jesus was a carpenter. You think maybe
they were trying to tell you something there?

... and the result of this is that so many high school teachers, their departments and even some entire schools are blatantly involved in "grade inflation."

There's something to be said for some European countries which have "national standard" examinations for college/university entrance rather than individual high school transcripts.

Regards,

Gyro, I actually agree with a lot of what you just said. An excellent education can be obtained at many institutions other than the most highly selective ones, and there is much to be said for finishing one's degree with a light or nonexistent debt load. I would in any case urge Brian to apply widely to schools with a wide range of selectivity, just so that he will have plenty of options when the time comes to choose a college.

That being said, there are at least two benefits to selective schools that you don't get with a lesser-name, state school:

1.) A group of higher-achieving and more academically motivated peers at the more selective institutions. I like to say that the brightest students I see at UK are just as bright as the ones I have known from Ivy League universities. But they are the exception, not the norm, and I know from personal experience that a lot of my honors students have been disappointed in the quality of class discussions and their peers here. A couple have even transferred in search of a more intellectual environment. College is so much more than just the content of classes; it's also what you learn from your peers. It's hard to foster an intellectual atmosphere at a party school.

2.) Prestige still matters in the real world--more than it should, undoubtedly--but it matters. This is less of an issue if you intend to go onto graduate or professional school, but if the B.A. is the terminal degree, you'll have more options coming from a selective institution, all other things being equal, than a generic State U.

That might be the first thing we've ever agreed on.

Very well said. I hadn't thought of that, even though I talked about his fine writing.....but that's right on. Seeing how beautifully he writes, I think he would be better advised to focus on writing a nice little bit about his music (which shouldn't be too hard) than on doing a CD. Of course this assumes he'd be going for a "regular" scholarship rather than a music one.

Yeah -- how about that, folks??

(Me2, but not necessarily most of the stuff about higher education.)

I guess the piano faculty member at Duke who specifically suggested to us that we send in a music CD or DVD was just kidding around. She said that those materials are sent from the admissions office to the music department for evaluation. If the relevant professors like what they see, they send their opinion back to the admissions office and that applicant's chances of being accepted go up. This has nothing to do with whether or not that applicant is interested in a music concentration.

Oh lovely. I'd forgotten about community service.

Gyro, the problem is, any school I go to, be it state or UC or ivy league, I will need financial aid to afford. Expensive, selective schools actually have decent need-based aid, so the difference in cost won't be as bad as you might think. And as Monica said, the quality of your peers is crucial, and having a B.A. at an ivy league school, or a top performing public school, matters a lot. You might have a B.A. in liberal arts, but if you got it from Harvard, you have more opportunities just because of the prestige. You pay for the name, but after, people pay you for the name on your resume. And just thinking about only going to school with the top 10% of students brings a smile to my face...

I've genuinely considered the military option, but after several years of planning on joining the military, I finally decided it wouldn't be for me. I also don't want to get a leg blown off in Afghanistan.

Lastly, after seeing how my parents live, I've decided college is necessary. Having a good job that allows some free time, as well as free money to spend on your passions is crucial in life.

Actually, it's likely cheaper for someone from a poorer background to go to Harvard than it is to go to Virginia Tech, provided you can get in.

I had thought it was quite possible you were sort of 'projecting' from your son's situation in your input on this thread (which would be understandable), and I think that sort of confirms it.

Nothing I've said here pertains to anyone like your son, who is a totally different story. I've made it clear again and again (or at least tried to) that I'm targeting my input to what the OP is indicating about his situation.

Why? That piano faculty member knew nothing in particular about him. Just that he was another kid interested in Duke who happened to want to study piano on the side. She had not heard him play. Her advice was applicable to anyone.

I imagine the standards at a place like Yale, which has an embedded music school, may be different than the standards at universities like Duke that have no performance majors at all. Yes, there are some very fine universities that have music departments, but NO performance major. Heck, I teach at one. A student who is a decent instrumental player has a leg up on admission. And I don't think they have to be God's Gift to Juilliard to qualify. Well, that's because most of God's Gifts to Juilliard are AT Juilliard (or Curtis).

Yes, I will agree that your CD needs to stand out. A hacked out Chopin Etude is unlikely to advance one's cause. The OP will make that judgment for himself. But my advice is not really tailored to the OP. It's general advice for anyone reading this thread. There is mileage in sending in a CD if you can do a more than creditable job.

Piano*Dad: Maybe we should stop tussling on this. In general we are quite like-minded on most things but for whatever reason, we're butting heads here. I have a different take on the interchange you're referring to from Duke, but I don't think we'd get any further trying to reason that out than we have on the rest of this. Suffice to say, I think what was advised for your son (and which quite obviously is good advice for him) would not be good advice for our OP.

Our guy can clearly see what our differing views are. I'm confident he can sort them out as he sees fit.

Yeah, I just edited my post above in a way that narrows the differences.

....and I edited mine a little too.

Your son truly is "extraordinary" (no buttering-up intended) and I think that even if some admissions officer (or whomever) hasn't heard any of his playing, the way the question is presented to him/her will usually convey a lot of the picture. I think the person who gave you the advice most likely did have some impression.

That's all really interesting from my point of view.
I didn't major in piano performance first, and came back to it when I was finished with my first cursus. Sadly in France, the Conservatoire national has an age limit (21 y o), as do most schools, so I had to go to a private school - meaning much more expensive. Also, most of my friends are a few years younger and play better (it does count when some 19 years old play better than you. I still handle my liquor better though.) I definitly recommand starting with the non-professional cursus if your parents can support it (I guess I mean majoring in piano for you ?)