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#1508089 - 09/02/10 10:31 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: 7even]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: 7even
... I'll also provide a DPBSD file once I get it.

Sounds like a plan!


Edited by dewster (09/02/10 11:38 PM)
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#1508181 - 09/03/10 01:43 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 143
Loc: New York
Has there been any word on the RPU-3 pedal unit that is compatible for both RD series and new FP-7F? I'm curious as to when that might be shipping. I suppose I'll be holding on to my RD700GX/F even if, say a company like Kawai comes out with something soon and "influences" me to pick up something wink
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP4, Roland RD-64, Yamaha MOXF-61

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#1508562 - 09/03/10 04:21 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Hi Guys,

This is my first post. I'm on the look out for a good DP for my 13yr old daughter who's aready done few exams in keyboards and maxed them. She's moving to Pianos.

Am on the lookout for a DP with PHA3, GH3 type of action with good piano sound. Also Auto accompaniment was needed as she wants to continue enjoying the keyboard roots.

I was researching the FP-7 when I came across the FP-7F which was announced a couple of days back. Halleluah!!!

The PHA3-S vs PHA3 seems to be like the PHA2 alpha (stage version) vs PHA2 key action. What is the difference between the two. Please throw some light on this.

How are the speakers on the FP-7 (to have an idea of the ones on the FP-7F). Are they bass reflex. The FP-4 speaker sound is too thin.

Is the Session Partner feature similar to auto accompaniment / styles in a Yamaha?

Is the PHA3 better than GH3 of Yamaha?

Will move her to a Kawai K6 upright in the future if she continues to do well with Pianos.





Edited by bsl100 (09/03/10 04:31 PM)

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#1508626 - 09/03/10 06:21 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2406
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
Some thoughts for you:

PHA-III is better than Yamaha GH3 (although the Yamaha action is fine)

FP-7 always had significantly better speakers than FP-4...I think the speakers are ported on the FP-7

I am absolutely confident that the PHA-III S (FP-7F) is mechanically identical to the deluxe PHA-III as fitted to V-Piano, RD-700NX and others. The only difference is that the S does not have the two layer construction giving the appearance of a wooden under-structure to the white keys...I mean, who needs this? Ridiculous idea anyway.

Cheers,

Steve
_________________________
Yamaha CP1

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#1508660 - 09/03/10 07:37 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: EssBrace]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: EssBrace


I am absolutely confident that the PHA-III S (FP-7F) is mechanically identical to the deluxe PHA-III as fitted to V-Piano, RD-700NX and others.


I wouldn't be.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1508712 - 09/03/10 09:29 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Melodialworks Music,

Quote:
I wouldn't be.


May I ask why not?

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1508724 - 09/03/10 10:03 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2221
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I'm pretty confident that they are the same, but I'd sack their marketing department and let an engineer re-write their product info. ;^)

Greg.

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#1508733 - 09/03/10 10:26 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
I think the -S stands for "solid" as in solid white plastic and no fake wood on the sides. I'd be fairly surprised (alas, not the first time with DP manufacturers) if PHAIII wasn't PHAIII.

IMO, the only reason management exists is to mismanage reality. We were all better off when engineers were closer to how the products were represented in the marketplace. They don't fool around.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1508754 - 09/03/10 10:54 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: bsl100]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bsl100
Hi Guys,



Is the Session Partner feature similar to auto accompaniment / styles in a Yamaha?





Yes and no ... Yamaha is significantly more advanced in its Style based accompaniment technology. But do you want AUTO accompaniment?
If she's 13 its time she thought about what her left hand's doing and making it control the keyboard rather then the other way around.
With a "Style" she actually is playing along to what the keyboard wants rather then the keyboard following what she wants to do.
I'd be looking at a good stage piano /workstation that has a good arpeggios function.
The Roland RD700 has this but also the Yamaha S90XS and CP5.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1508796 - 09/04/10 12:50 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Dr Popper]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Thnx Dr Popper,

The ultimate goal for her would be a proper upright like the Kawai K6 or similar.

The RD700NX / CP5 look interesting and I was researching these as well. The only issue would be that its early days for an arranger/composer type of keyboard.



Edited by bsl100 (09/04/10 12:51 AM)

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#1508813 - 09/04/10 01:43 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: dewster
I think the -S stands for "solid" as in solid white plastic and no fake wood on the sides. I'd be fairly surprised (alas, not the first time with DP manufacturers) if PHAIII wasn't PHAIII.

IMO, the only reason management exists is to mismanage reality. We were all better off when engineers were closer to how the products were represented in the marketplace. They don't fool around.


I went to three different stores yesterday and got three different stories invented on the spot:

1. -S stands for Speed, the keyboard will be faster
2. -S stands for Silent, the keyboard will be quieter
3. -S stands for eScapement, the keyboard will have a more realistic escapement simulation that will later be put into the other keyboards (!)

All three stores were unaware that the key would be -Solid white, however, until I informed them.

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#1508822 - 09/04/10 02:44 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Suryaman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Italy&Orange County, CA
Guys it's praiseworthy how much efforts are you putting to try to imagine and explain the differences between the two versions of the PHAIII. This is the reason why I really like this forum.

As for me, besides marketing definitions, it's quite obvious that Roland will not put his flagship action in a dital piano, the FP-7F, which will cost about half the price of the NX.

I think that the distance between the two actions will remain nearly the same as FP7/RD700GX(I like considerably more the action of the GX over the FP7).

Obviously I'll be more than happy to be wrong at the test drive on november, hoping that my local GC will have have them together.

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#1508825 - 09/04/10 03:35 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Not sure about the pricing you mention. Here the RD700NX is listed at 2399 and the FP7F at 1899. The power of the FP7 is less but it has its own speakers. Each has unique features that the other does not, aiming them at different markets.


Edited by theJourney (09/04/10 03:36 AM)

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#1508831 - 09/04/10 04:12 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
1. EssBrace mentions PHAIII being superior to GH3. Any comments on this? Also where do they stand against the Kawai RM3? It would give me a fair idea as I'd checked out the Kawai CA63 recently. Its action was about 80% of the K5 and K6 acoustic uprights.

2. FP-7 has regular PHAII whereas FP-4 has PHAII Alpha. What is the diff between these two actions. It could hold the answer to the PHAIII vs PHAIII-S action.

3. Probably the RD-700NX costs more than the FP-7F as its an arranger workstation for Pros with more features. Would these features be required for a beginer?

4. Is the SuperNatural sound engine superior to 4 or 5 layer Pure CFIIIS Dynamic Stereo Sampling of Yamaha?

My decision is going to lean towards the BEST Piano action as this would be the most crucial aspect of learning on an acoustic. Second would be the Sound as this would translate into a better understanding of each note and its expressivity. Last would be the AUTO-accompaniment feature for the fun part. The onboard speakers on the FP-7F would be an added bonus.


Edited by bsl100 (09/04/10 04:34 AM)

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#1508865 - 09/04/10 08:15 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: bsl100]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: bsl100
3. Probably the RD-700NX costs more than the FP-7F as its an arranger workstation for Pros with more features. Would these features be required for a beginer?

I don't know if I'd call the NX and "arranger workstation". It's more of a full featured, flagship stage piano. I has SuperNATURAL EPs for instance, and only acquired rudimentary recording ability in this incarnation. If you watch the FP video it seems to have some kind of accompaniment going (rhythm patterns & a looper, says the FP info).

Originally Posted By: bsl100
4. Is the SuperNatural sound engine superior to 4 or 5 layer Pure CFIIIS Dynamic Stereo Sampling of Yamaha?

Technically, absolutely. There is no looping or stretching going on in SN. I don't think I would be able to tell it's not a real piano, even in a solo recording scenario.

Originally Posted By: bsl100
My decision is going to lean towards the BEST Piano action as this would be the most crucial aspect of learning on an acoustic. Second would be the Sound as this would translate into a better understanding of each note and its expressivity. Last would be the AUTO-accompaniment feature for the fun part. The onboard speakers on the FP-7F would be an added bonus.

I believe the NX and FP are the same for your first two criteria. The FP may actually be better for the third. And those speakers in the FP make it quite attractive as an all-rounder. The user interface on the NX is superior to the FP though. And they weigh about the same though the NX is longer and may not fit across the back seat of a car. I wish all of my wife's students had something as nice as either to practice on.


Edited by dewster (09/04/10 08:26 AM)
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1508872 - 09/04/10 08:37 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: theJourney]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: theJourney
I went to three different stores yesterday and got three different stories invented on the spot:

1. -S stands for Speed, the keyboard will be faster
2. -S stands for Silent, the keyboard will be quieter
3. -S stands for eScapement, the keyboard will have a more realistic escapement simulation that will later be put into the other keyboards (!)

That's hilarious!

Apparently -S stands for Sucker if you ask any kind of questions at all. This is why I do my own research and would rather the sales people just left me alone. Even the Sweetwater rep that rings up too often in order to badger the life out of me is often clueless when it comes to equipment that has just been announced.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

Top
#1508874 - 09/04/10 08:49 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
My dream Roland stage piano would be the NX with (in order of decreasing importance):

1. The joystick removed or relocated to the upper deck.
2. Some kind of music rest.
3a. The built-in speakers of the FP.
3b. Lighter weight.

Heck, if they had just done the first one I'd have one preordered yesterday. As it is I'm having a hard time deciding between the two. It mainly comes down to the much nicer UI of the NX (I really like the rotary encoder wheel) vs the shorter length, built-in speakers, and music rest of the FP.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1508875 - 09/04/10 08:51 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1309
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: dewster


Apparently -S stands for Sucker if you ask any kind of questions at all.


It's actually quite obvious that the -S stands for silly.
_________________________
Melodialworks Music
Yamaha C3X
Yamaha CP300 + Omnisphere
Yamaha NU1 + Production Grand

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#1508877 - 09/04/10 09:00 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9368
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
dewster, this will be for your wife's teaching, correct?

If so, the FP-7F is perhaps the more suitable choice (music rest, speakers, greater portability, etc.)

James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1508878 - 09/04/10 09:04 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4354
Loc: Northern NJ
Yes, but it would be nice to be able to take it on vacation as well. For the studio the NX makes the most sense, as we already have a sound system and stand with music rest there. For portability the FP makes the most sense.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1508898 - 09/04/10 10:37 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Jackie Apple Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/10/10
Posts: 12
First post, so please be kind! Replying to last post for speed. Apologies if this has been posted before.

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/fp-7f_brochure.pdf

On the top of the front page, features are listed on an orange bar. Those features include:

PHA III

Ivory Feel S

Escapement

… which would seem to suggest that the S relates to the ‘feel’ (in terms of surface material) rather than the action.

That brochure also contains the following description that has already been quoted on this thread:

“New PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard
The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action. The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all-white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.”

Side note: I placed an order for a Yamaha CP300 a month or so ago but the retailer is waiting for stock and now I’m wondering whether these new Rolands will turn out to be more interesting. I am particularly interested in the action.

edit: RD-700NX brochure link here: http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-700NX_brochure.pdf


Edited by Jackie Apple (09/04/10 03:37 PM)
Edit Reason: Added RD-700NX brochure link

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#1508942 - 09/04/10 12:58 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: bsl100]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1718
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
Originally Posted By: bsl100
Thnx Dr Popper,

The ultimate goal for her would be a proper upright like the Kawai K6 or similar.

The RD700NX / CP5 look interesting and I was researching these as well. The only issue would be that its early days for an arranger/composer type of keyboard.



They aren't arranger/composer keyboards (that's the "Style" type I was referring too) but rather proper stage pianos that have bass/drum accompaniment and can easily do layers, splits etc which most modern pianists need to do.
They can do pretty much everything a Kawai K6 can do plus a lot more that it can't.
My daughter has my old RD700GX as her main learning piano and she's doing quite well on it as it allows her to play around with sounds and types of music in a way that she can't when she plays my C7. Getting her to practice on the C7 was a chore, but she loves playing the RD.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1508952 - 09/04/10 01:10 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Jackie Apple]
Suryaman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Italy&Orange County, CA
Jackie Apple I strongly suggest you to wait for FP-7F and RD700NX before buying anything.

The RD700NX is gonna be the best stage piano for $2300-2500 on the market.

Anyway the CP300 is a great digital piano too.

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#1508976 - 09/04/10 02:09 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Jackie Apple]
MarcoM Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 246
Originally Posted By: Jackie Apple
The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency


I wonder if this means that the -S keys are not coated but have the 'ivory touch' as a function of the material itself? Still I can't understand if that was the case why they would have two different pha-iii... don't we all love marketing!

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#1509070 - 09/04/10 05:36 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2221
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Here's another ambiguity:

Quote from http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=fp-7f :

"an all-new PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement".

If the only difference is the one-piece construction of the keys, then it's absurd to say that it's "all new".

Sigh. I still feel very optimistic that it's a tri-sensor action, however I hope Roland make me feel even better soon, by providing clear information. And I can't be too hard on their marketing people because they've been kind enough to allow a PHAIII(-ish) action to be provided in the FP-7F (and the PHAIII in the 700NX) in the first place. ;^)

I suppose that it's possible that the FP-7F does not SENSE the action as precisely as the RD-700NX or V-Piano.......

Greg.


Edited by sullivang (09/04/10 05:47 PM)

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#1509132 - 09/04/10 07:59 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2221
Loc: Sydney, Australia
WAY Off Topic:

Here's a fun little break from digital pianos, however it's an EXCELLENT example of the frustration of marketing departments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riGejPAqNVw
(Top Gear's review of the Porsche Cayman S)

Go to time 4:50.

Greg.

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#1509253 - 09/04/10 11:35 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
Dr Popper, Dewster,

I stand corrected about the C5/RD-700 being Stage Pianos and not arranger/workstations.

If you are to do only Bass/Drums, the FP-7 manual (page 69) suggests that the Session Partner button can be worked in a way where you can do any of the following: Only Drums / Bass+Drums / Full Auto-accompaniment.

Would this be something similar to what the RD-700 series does. Of course, the RD-700 would also do built in Arpegios but would not have full blown Auto-accompaniment.

Brian



Edited by bsl100 (09/04/10 11:43 PM)

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#1509260 - 09/05/10 12:11 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
R0B Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 1439
Loc: Australia
Ivory Feel-S = Simulated??
(to avoid complaints from C.I.T.E.S. ?)
_________________________
Rob

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#1509261 - 09/05/10 12:17 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
bsl100 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 131
1. There's no mention of a third sensor in PHAIII, except that it can deliver better Repetition & Expressivity than the PHAII. Those who have tried out both the actions could tell us the difference.

2. Both the earlier RD-700's and FP-7's had PHAII keys. But they gave the new RD-700NX PHAIII and the FP-7F PHAIII-S.

3. The difference between the two actions could be the same (difference) as in PHAII and PHAII alpha.

Brian

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#1509264 - 09/05/10 12:27 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: bsl100]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2221
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I am sure that PHAIII has three sensors, because I've tested it. It is capable of sounding a new note for a partial key release, without having to release the key to the extent that the original note is terminated first.

I have not tested to make sure PHAII only has 2 sensors.

The third sensor is there to simulate the repetition lever in a real grand piano action, which allows repetitions for smaller key returns, and without the damper coming into contact with the strings.

Greg.


Edited by sullivang (09/05/10 01:05 AM)

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