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Welcome thomsurf!


I agree, in many ways the UI reminds me of the Kawai MP8.

I'm looking through the FP-7 manual and the UI seems fairly cryptic for certain functions. For example, velocity scaling is selected by holding down the "reverb" button and then pressing the "sound control" button. The GX in comparison has tons of options regarding velocity and they are in fairly straightforward seeming menus. I want the FP-7F internal speakers and form factor but I don't know if I can tolerate a lamer UI.


A common complaint with the RD. Some have had some success by heavily tweaking the parameters, I assume you've gone this route?

Oh, I know I mention it too much, it's just one of my bugbears. If the third sensor is essentially free, I definitely want it. Like adequately large sample sets should be almost free at this point but for some reason aren't - I want those too.

Dewster,
Yes, I want triple sensors too.

Changing the subject - in one of the Roland videos (I think), they mention that the "sound focus" is related to "phase optimisation". Do you understand what this means? Phase adjustments, if they are performed dynamically, MUST involve a temporary pitch shift, yes?
(I have no idea what components of the sound undergo this "phase optimisation" though)

Greg.

(sorry - it's "phase-correction", and it's mentioned here in the text: http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx )

Greg.

From the video:
Players will also appreciate the new Sound Focus technology, allowing them to adjust the piano sound to cut through an ensemble performance without changing the essential tonal character or EQ of the piano.

From the text:
The innovative Sound Focus feature ensures that every note will be heard, even subtle pianissimo passages. Based on SuperNATURAL phase-correction technology, this essential feature ensures the RD-700NX won’t get lost in the mix, penetrating through walls of sound without compressing or coloring the tone. Players can relax and play naturally, achieving presence onstage without sacrificing dynamics and sound quality.

I have no freaking idea what they're talking about when they use the term "phase". They claim it isn't compression but it sounds like it to me in the video. It kind of smacks of the phase manipulation BS (IMO) promulgated by BBE to describe their special process of enhancing highs.

I don't see too much to grieve about here, to be honest. The action may be a slight upgrade but mostly I see this as probably cheaper overall for Roland to manufacture while charging more. You have a second MFX circuit and an expansion slot free. OK, the SRX boards are not spectacular but they are useful for substantially increasing the RD's sonic palette.

Blargh. I think I'm gonna return my GXF (though it sounds great) and wait a bit for the NX. I'm planning on keeping the keyboard for at least the next 2 years, so I figure I'd rather get the latest board (action & all), especially since the price difference will be negligible if this is anywhere near accurate: http://www.andysmusiconline.com/products/roland-rd700nx.html

I hate not having a piano at home, but maybe using acoustics on a regular basis for a month or 2 would be helpful to my technique..

Thanks, and yes, some of the info on the BBE site does seem similar! The speaker correction that they talk about makes sense to me.

Side note: I once tore my hair out trying to figure out why some sounds sounded so different when played back from my soundcard. Turned out that my system was inverting the phase, and some low frequency tones sounded very different. Apparently some people are sensitive to absolute phase and others aren't.

Greg.

It sort of makes sense, but I don't believe they are actually doing group delay. When BBE first hit the scene technical people tried to interpret their literature and came up empty. It really seemed like a snow job, with various terms being bandied about with only partial regard to their very specific meanings.

I own the BBE MAXIE Sonic Maximizer Model 402 (really old unit) - it seems to me their process is simply a level sensitive treble boost, which will of course boost highs without noticeably increasing hiss. The process knob just changes the compression threshold - the downside here is that hotter signals may produce more highs than you want, so I see it as more of a mastering tool, something to apply after the levels are well established. Not sexy enough in the light of day to sell like hotcakes, I suppose. People seem to have a need for a secret weapon in their audio arsenal with serious mystical gravitas, a slot BBE was only too happy to fill with a flimsy unit and boatload of empty jargon.

One final thing about the BBE: one of the channels in mine crapped out so I opened it up to see if I could fix it. Turns out they route the audio in there via a CD4000 series analog switch, which is kind of not the thing to do if you are super serious about fidelity. I pulled off the old part, installed a socket, and put in a new one (I believe it was one of the improved later families) and it started working like new. Currently my unit is performing spectacularly as a dust catcher, it only has consumer RCA I/O so it adds too much noise to any pro audio signal chain I've tried to put it in.

The NX blurb mentions "3 pianos with 30 variations." As I understand it, the GXF/SNKit has 4 fundamental sample sets that form the "base" pianos (but with fewer built-in variations):

Grand Piano 1 - the Expressive Grand sample set (RD700GX)
Grand Piano 2 - Superior (RD700SX)
Grand Piano 3 - Ultimate (Ultimate Pianos)
Grand Piano 4 - Grand RD (RD700?)

It will be interesting to find out a) if the NX is working from any brand-new sample sets and b) if not, which (if any) of the four above was dropped. The Grand RD, being the oldest, seems likely, but that would be unfortunate as it seems to be many users' favorite.

Very interesting info about the BBE Dewster. I had always wondered about their "special algorithm" and whether I should buy one. When they described it's like putting glasses on to see better, the Sonic Maximizer lets you hear everything much better, I always thought they were using something like dynamic narrow band filters around all the freq ranges that have the most content to remove nearby frequencies that had lower energy.

My unit is so old (in the technical sense) that I can't imagine them doing anything very sophisticated in there. IIRC they use a custom IC to keep prying reverse engineers from seeing what they really do at a glance.

And when a manufacturer mentions "phase alignment" as a way to perform some audible magic they are almost always intellectually out in the weeds.

The Roland site (http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1128) lists the SN APs in the NX as Concert, Studio, and Brilliant, with 30 variations.

This Roland pamphlet (http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/k-rd700gx1.pdf) lists the RD-700GX SRX SN AP expansion voices as the folowing:

SN01 Grand Piano
SN02 Clear Grand
SN03 MellowGrand
SN04 BrightGrand
SN05 Grand Piano2
SN06 UprightPiano
SN07 RagtimeGrand
SN08 Comp Piano
SN09 Grand Piano3
SN10 Grand Piano4
SN11 BrightGrand2
SN12 MellowGrand2
SN13 Honky-Tonk
SN14 Comp Piano2
SN15 Grand Mono
SN16 Mellow Mono
SN17 Bright Mono

Not sure how many fundamentally different sample sets there are in there.

For what it's worth, Sweetwater says the 700NX is shipping this month for $2599: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD700NX
I put in a return for my GXF, hopefully the NX doesn't take too long to ship

7even, how difficult was it to return the GXF? I mean, did you not have to provide a reason or anything?

Cheers,
James
x

I was up front about wanting to upgrade to the NX, but in general I think that Sweetwater (who I'm working with) has a no questions asked policy. It isn't much of a hassle overall (other than having to pack it up and ship it)

Nice one - sounds like they've got a great policy.
What's the limit on this kind of thing over there, by the way?
Is it usually within 30 days of purchase?

Cheers,
James
x

Yup, the return window is 30 days. It helps that I received the board just the other day :P

Congrats 7even! Please keep us posted on your impressions of how the two compare.

Gladly I'll also provide a DPBSD file once I get it.