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#1507776 - 09/02/10 12:43 PM
Which piano in the $700 range?
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Full Member
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 85
Loc: New Westminster, Canada
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We are looking for an appropriate piano for a beginning music student. My neighbour's daughter is 7 years old and she is taking her first music lessons in the "Music for Young Children" course which is a popular introductory course to music and piano in Canada.
My neighbour found a Casio PX-130 at Costco in the range of about $650. Is this a good piano for a beginning piano student in this budget range or are there other pianos we should be looking at? Does anyone have any recommendations?
I will go to Costco to try it out to sense the keyboard and sound but before I venture out I thought I would ask this question on piano world for some alternatives to be sure we are on the right track.
Our family also plays the piano (we have an acoustic as well as an older digital piano for late night evening practice) but generally we do not have much experience with digital pianos - especially the latest models. I've read that if a budget is under $2000 it is more suitable to look for a digital piano. However, I have seen some reasonable used acoustic uprights in this price range too which personally would be my recommendations but I would first need to explore the digital alternatives too and check with the music teacher of the course as well. I've read most of Larry Fine's piano books in terms of acoustic pianos and I have the latest Piano Buyer book but can't seem to find anything in the book about digital piano ratings in this price range. It seems to be mostly objective specifications. (There is however a section comparing various digital pianos but it is in the $2000 range). Many would write it would be risky to purchase a $700 acoustic but if given the choice between a digital and a low-end acoustic, the authentic piano experience of an acoustic may likely be more beneficial for the developing technique of the young player. Thats my personal opinion but it may be beneficial to consider the digital alternative as well to be sure to compare all the pros and cons.
My questions are:
Should we even consider an acoustic? (I think its viable but would not have the advantage of volume control as digital pianos do.)
If we look at digital pianos in this price range which have the most authentic keyboard feel? I personally have a 17 year old Roland HP-1500 which has a reasonably close feel to a real piano. Lately I've played several digital pianos at our local music supplier but never fine them quite close enough to a real piano. They usually have plastic feeling keys that don't bounce naturally. Usually the ones I feel are adequate pianos are about $1000 or more but I haven't tried any of the new models this year yet such as the Casio XP-130. Personally for me when I look for a piano the feel of the keyboard and the sound are the most important rather than all the digital features which I would consider secondary. Midi is important however but aren't they all midi now?
I've heard Yamaha digitals are good but they are much pricier and if I was to spent $1500 or more, personally I would look for a used acoustic upright.
Should we look for a used digital? (I would guess not because the digital models become obsolete very quickly as is mentioned in the Piano Buyer book).
Casio XP-130: pros and cons pros: price cons: I've also read on several reviews of the Casio XP-130 that the keys are somewhat noisy. Considering the price of this keyboard this may not be an issue if the volume it turned up a little. Also The wattage is low. (this may or may not be a problem).
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
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#1507787 - 09/02/10 01:00 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3768
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
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The Casio PX130 sells for $450 if you look around. That is a US price and befor VAT. But with the current exchange running one to one you can find one for less than $650 I'm sure.
With a budget of $700 there are only a couple options, the Casio or a new Korg SP170. Neither is better and they are a bit alike.
Yes an acoustic piano is good if (1) the goal is to learn to play an acoustic piano. But I doubt a child that age knows what her goals are. and (2) $700 is not much of a budget. It will cost you $100 just to have it moved to the house and another $150 for a first tuning (which is 100% required after a move and every year there after.) This leaves you about $450 for the piano itself, you will not find a quality piano at that price. Likely a $450 digital will outperform a $450 acoustic piano. You should at least double your budget if you want an used acoustic piano and plan on a couple hundred per year for a piano technician's services. and (3) A small child will only practice in daylight hours but later you have to think about the noise from an acoustic piano. They are quite loud.
The thing about beginners is that they need a good piano with good key action. An expert pianist can make good music on an old "clunker" of a piano but new students need a fine and easy to control key action. If you buy an acoustic piano spend $100 and have piano tech evaluate it for you, if you buy from a dealer get your own tech for an independent assesment. It will cost $100 but it beats spending $1,000 on something you can't use. A digital piano does not need to be inspected
At the earliest, buy the acoustic piano next year or whenever she begines to play "early intermediate" pieces. For most kids, if they stay with it it wil take more than a year for that to happen. Start with an good but not expensive digital piano. One like the PX130 that has 88 weighted hammer action keys and a good stand an pedal. Then figure years later you will upgrade it. Figure you can sell it for 50% of what you paid if sold within the next three years.
Edited by ChrisA (09/02/10 01:09 PM)
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#1507979 - 09/02/10 06:24 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: ChrisA]
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Full Member
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 85
Loc: New Westminster, Canada
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Thanks ChrisA,
Really appreciate your advice. An hour ago I went to Costco and tried out the Casio PX-130. Overall, I wasn't too happy with the feel of this piano. (Regardless it does have many interesting features if you are interested in inputing digital music into a computer for editing.) The keys seem to feel too light and loose and wobble just a little - the keys don't seem to have the stability I've felt on other digitals and with acoustic pianos. I am surprised that one must pay $600 just to enter the digital piano market. It might be a sufficient choice for a beginner, however, I've played acoustic pianos with much more substance (i.e. proper weight) in the keys for about the same cost (around $700).
Is there a digital piano with more of a real piano feel in this price range?
In terms of looking for a used digital piano (which is often not recommended because they become obsolete so fast as opposed to an acoustic piano) I might suggest that it could still likely be a viable option if we could find a used professional model digital keyboard from the recent past. Our own 17 year old Roland HP-1500 and another digital piano my wife bought (can't recall the brand) for her school a few years ago that cost about $1000 which I am sure one could now find used for under $600 now both still have an excellent feeling weighted keyboard. I checked out craigslist last night and didn't see anything in our area (Vancouver, Canada) so far.
Thank you Chris for your helpful perspective,
Mike
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#1508003 - 09/02/10 07:35 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3768
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
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If you don't like the keys in the Casio then you'd have to move up to a "GH" based Yamaha like the P155 or to any Kawai or in Roland's lineup at least the FP7. Of those they are all good but the least expensive would be the P155 at $1,200 USD.
I've noticed a trend with the price of digital pianos. The price doubles with each increment of quality. Moving from the Casio PX130 to the Yamaha P155 about doubles the price. If you like the Roland RD700 then the price doubles again.
It is very hard to buy a used digital piano. What happens is that the new pianos are getting better each year and the prices are slowly falling too. So when you find a used piano you compare it to what is currently in the stores and see why it is being sold.
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#1508023 - 09/02/10 08:25 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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2000 Post Club Member
Registered: 09/24/09
Posts: 2343
Loc: Florida
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It seems that Casio gets a very bad rap here.
In this thread, a member didn't like the Casio. Lucky for him he found that BEFORE buying. But in many other cases the complaints about quality come AFTER the sale.
I haven't seen many complaints about the Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai. This leads me to think ... buy Y or R or K, but stay the heck away from Casio.
Or am I dreaming?
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#1508040 - 09/02/10 09:03 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: MacMacMac]
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3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 3410
Loc: Northern NJ
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The FP-7F is currently on pre-order Sweetwater for $1900. Almost certainly a great DP & a great value. I personally don't think I'd throw money at anything less as it would be quite a step down.
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#1508115 - 09/02/10 11:16 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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Full Member
Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 39
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We are looking for an appropriate piano for a beginning music student. My neighbour's daughter is 7 years old and she is taking her first music lessons in the "Music for Young Children" course which is a popular introductory course to music and piano in Canada.
My neighbour found a Casio PX-130 at Costco in the range of about $650. Is this a good piano for a beginning piano student in this budget range or are there other pianos we should be looking at? Does anyone have any recommendations?
I will go to Costco to try it out to sense the keyboard and sound but before I venture out I thought I would ask this question on piano world for some alternatives to be sure we are on the right track.
Our family also plays the piano (we have an acoustic as well as an older digital piano for late night evening practice) but generally we do not have much experience with digital pianos - especially the latest models. I've read that if a budget is under $2000 it is more suitable to look for a digital piano. However, I have seen some reasonable used acoustic uprights in this price range too which personally would be my recommendations but I would first need to explore the digital alternatives too and check with the music teacher of the course as well. I've read most of Larry Fine's piano books in terms of acoustic pianos and I have the latest Piano Buyer book but can't seem to find anything in the book about digital piano ratings in this price range. It seems to be mostly objective specifications. (There is however a section comparing various digital pianos but it is in the $2000 range). Many would write it would be risky to purchase a $700 acoustic but if given the choice between a digital and a low-end acoustic, the authentic piano experience of an acoustic may likely be more beneficial for the developing technique of the young player. Thats my personal opinion but it may be beneficial to consider the digital alternative as well to be sure to compare all the pros and cons.
My questions are:
Should we even consider an acoustic? (I think its viable but would not have the advantage of volume control as digital pianos do.)
If we look at digital pianos in this price range which have the most authentic keyboard feel? I personally have a 17 year old Roland HP-1500 which has a reasonably close feel to a real piano. Lately I've played several digital pianos at our local music supplier but never fine them quite close enough to a real piano. They usually have plastic feeling keys that don't bounce naturally. Usually the ones I feel are adequate pianos are about $1000 or more but I haven't tried any of the new models this year yet such as the Casio XP-130. Personally for me when I look for a piano the feel of the keyboard and the sound are the most important rather than all the digital features which I would consider secondary. Midi is important however but aren't they all midi now?
I've heard Yamaha digitals are good but they are much pricier and if I was to spent $1500 or more, personally I would look for a used acoustic upright.
Should we look for a used digital? (I would guess not because the digital models become obsolete very quickly as is mentioned in the Piano Buyer book).
Casio XP-130: pros and cons pros: price cons: I've also read on several reviews of the Casio XP-130 that the keys are somewhat noisy. Considering the price of this keyboard this may not be an issue if the volume it turned up a little. Also The wattage is low. (this may or may not be a problem).
Any suggestions?
Thank you! Really? You actually thought PX-130 was too light? The keys are weighted and I thought they were actually heavy for a DP. Anyway, I own a PX-130 and I suggest that DP for those who are low in budget, needs a portable lightweight DP to carry around, or wants to record midi files to PC via USB and post videos. I thought it was a great DP overall though.
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#1508435 - 09/03/10 12:26 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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Full Member
Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 61
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take a look at the yamaha p95
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#1508458 - 09/03/10 01:09 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: MacMacMac]
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1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1160
Loc: UK
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It seems that Casio gets a very bad rap here.
In this thread, a member didn't like the Casio. Lucky for him he found that BEFORE buying. But in many other cases the complaints about quality come AFTER the sale.
I haven't seen many complaints about the Yamaha, Roland, or Kawai. This leads me to think ... buy Y or R or K, but stay the heck away from Casio.
Or am I dreaming? Well, I have a Casio PX330, and am one of the ones who have posted about problems with the keys. I also have a Kawai CN33. I maintain that the PX330 is fun to play, reasonable sound and touch (actually quite good), for the price - and so represents excellent value. It, and the PX130 are really hard to beat at their respective price points, and the question about feel of the keyboard and tone of the sounds tends to be a personal view (although Dewster's DPBSD looks under the hood a bit). Some people prefer Yamaha sound over Roland and vice-versa, some people prefer Yamaha GHS over Roland PHAII, and so it goes on with all the other manufacturers. Just to repeat myself the Casio's mentioned are great value, but may not be to everyone's taste.
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#1508575 - 09/03/10 04:34 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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Full Member
Registered: 09/03/10
Posts: 90
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Hi Guys,
I'm on the look out for a good DP for my 13yr old daughter who's aready done few exams in keyboards and maxed them. She's moving to Pianos.
Am on the lookout for a DP with PHA3, GH3 type of action with good piano sound. Also Auto accompaniment was needed as she wants to continue enjoying the keyboard roots.
I was researching the FP-7 when I came across the FP-7F which was announced a couple of days back. Halleluah!!!
The PHA3-S vs PHA3 seems to be like the PHA2 alpha (stage version) vs PHA2 key action. What is the difference between the two. Please throw some light on this.
How are the speakers on the FP-7 (to have an idea of the ones on the FP-7F). Are they bass reflex. The FP-4 speaker sound is too thin.
Is the Session Partner feature similar to auto accompaniment / styles in a Yamaha?
Is the PHA3 better than GH3 of Yamaha?
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#1508804 - 09/04/10 01:27 AM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Nikalette]
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Full Member
Registered: 02/23/09
Posts: 85
Loc: New Westminster, Canada
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Thank you all for this guidance. I think we now have enough info to go by to make an informed choice. My friend might use this digital piano (not sure which one as of yet) as a stepping stone to an acoustic in the near future which is likely a common strategy for beginning students for the first few months or first year to see how it goes. Out of interest, the next time I visit a music store I will be sure to try the following as was suggested in this post:
Yamaha P-85 / P-95 Yamaha P155 any "GH" based Yamaha Roland FP7 (at least) Roland FP-7F Korg SP170 any Kawai Roland RD700
This should be a good sampling of the various brands based on all these helpful model suggestions in this post. Thanks!
Thank you dewster for your helpful advice,
My brother is now renting a Yamaha P-85 for his daughter for her first piano lessons. I remember feeling good about this keyboard when I played it a few weeks ago. Its not bad. For the cost it might be my favourite economical keyboard. Thanks for recommending this one.
I'll watch for the Roland FP-7F too just out of curiosity.
Thank you ChrisA for your suggestions again. Out of curiosity I would like to try the Roland RD700 because I see in the specifications it features escapement which I would guess is a closer simulation of an acoustic piano's action. I was never aware of this feature before on digital pianos. These pianos are beyond what I was originally looking for but would be useful to try as a comparison with an acoustic action. Larry Fine's Piano Buyer has a useful chart (page 285-301) showing which digital pianos have this feature - as well as other useful feature comparisons.
Thanks mxh91. Good point. Yes it is a useful piano for the purposes you mention. I'm just surprised how much one has to spend on a digital piano and yet not come close to an acoustic. The ideal situation seems to be to have both an acoustic and a digital. An acoustic for practicing and then a digital for quiet late evening practicing so as not to disturb others in the house, quick digital recordings for entering into a computer or editing, midi connectivity or situations where portability is required. Good points.
Thanks Benjamin86 and spanishbuddha. Much appreciated.
__
Mike
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#1509105 - 09/04/10 07:00 PM
Re: Which piano in the $700 range?
[Re: Mike088]
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Full Member
Registered: 08/30/10
Posts: 61
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i tried p85 today again. i must say, forget it, the keys feel so plastic, just like a toy. if ur going yamaha, avoid the p85/95 and get the p155/cp300 as GH feels a lot superior to GHS. but u will feel on your own. fp7 is shit btw, i tried it, too. you dont get a good dp for 700$. take a step up and get a good one for 1000-1300$. the roland rd700gx is told to be very good as well, and the mp8 II is told to have the best key action. well, i wasnt really impressed by it, the keys were wooden and felt heavy, but it was somewhat wobby, so only take it if you like "soft" key action.
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