Hello all, my first post here

I'm in my late 40s and decided to start playing the piano. I am ignorant, so please bear with me.

We have a digital piano, Yamaha YDP-131. However, I am not satisfied with it. The sound is irritating. It is honky, mid-rangy and harsh. Synthetic at best. Ears get tired relatively quickly even at moderate volume. There are some reverbs available in the unit, but I find them cold and dull.

Overall, there is some toyish quality in this thing. I do not trust it. I've been playing guitar for over 30 years so I kind of know how an instrument responses. But this thing is dumb.

I want something else. I got 2000EUR + YDP-131 to spend.

What would you recommend? I am not interested in sound libraries or drum grooves. Basic metronome and record function would do just fine (that's the only thing I like about YDP-131: simple operation). I am interested in a good digital piano with good touch and good sound. Are there DPs that focus on playability and sound without the unnecessary bellsandwhistelsitis? Are the price differences in product lines justified if you are not looking for features that increase operational complexity and unnecessary options?

I know that you can not tell me what to choose. But I would value your opinion on whether it is worth to pay more or not. The basic question is: do I get more piano with more money?

Thank you!

Given your budget, a Kawai CA-63 could be great for you, as the sound and feeling is 'wood/ivory' (not toy plastic) and it also includes very easy USB recording to WAV/MP3 of your performances!

Nevertheless, I recommend to play it first and compare with other brands also...

Thank you for your suggestion, TADutchman.

Kawai CA-63/93 is, in my opinion, the most beautiful digital piano ever made. I will be able to play one next week.

Excellent, Arnoh! If, next to the standard factory presets, you'd like to hear the sound shaping potential, you could use a few of these custom settings too:
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthrea...tml#Post1448603

I new Yamaha YDP will be a lot better than your old YDP. So you might try the YDP161.

Also much of the sound quality is in the speakers. Adding bigger and better speakers will improve the sound of any DP greatly. If yo play electric guitar then you know just how much the speaker and amp shapes the sound. The speakers in even a $2K paino are not great.

Roland has just released a great upgrade to their FP7. It now has their "good sound" and "good keys" and is really worth looking at. I say FP7 because it is very much different in feel and sound from your YDP and very recently released so the technology inside is new.

For your budgt you might be able to buy a Kawai CN series piao. Kawai is more like Yamaha then is Roland

Actually the other voices, drum loops and "bellsandwhistelsitis" may have the effect of reducing the cost of the DP. They can widen the aeal of the instrument and cause most units to be sold. High unit sales volumes are what keep the prices low.

Yes, I agree. Fortunately my study is spacious so it is possible for me to try different placements. I got a pair of Genelec active monitors and decent cans (Sennheiser 650). As for the current YDP-131, the samples go like 'plonk'; there are no dynamics whatsoever and no sound reproduction system can turn that poo into music. So speakers are not that important since I can easily overcome the shortcomings. But the sound source must be good, of course.


Good point!

That is what I meant when I said the new YDP is better. The "131" uses Yamahas cheaper "GHS" key action and I think only has one sample layer. Moving to a new Yamaha that has "GH" keys and multi-layer samples will be a dramatic improvement over what you have. I have the Yamaha P155. I think the internal samples in the P155 are a step up from the YDP series. Price is $1,200. You might also look at the brand new version of the Roalnd FP7 if it is as good as what the specs say, it's worth trying. Should be just under $2K but it's not in stores yet

I agree with what others say about thte Kawai too. Any of the newly released DPs are so much better then what you have. The Roland will be the "most different" from your YDP.

Just for your own education. it's likely out of your budget, but you shouod try a Roland v-piano just because you said you want something that fels "alive" and interactive. the v-piano is current the most "alive" DP out there but it's expensive and some thing the sound is not 100% "real" but you play it and decide. At this levelit's all opinion. Cost is almost $6K USD.

Arnoh, you might want to look at the new YDP-181. It has 3-layer sampling, 128 polyphony, half pedaling, a two-track recorder, and also appears to have a GH3 action. The "3" tells you that there's a third sensor whose purpose is to permit fast repetition. (This function will only become useful if you advance to a high level of play.) I was suprprised to see this feature on a low-cost DP. Thomann.de has it listed at 1244 EUR. I'm guessing that shipping is extra. You can probably buy it locally for that same price or something very close. In any case, it'd be a good idea to try to see one, just so you know that its appearance is satisfactory.

Here's a link to the info on Yamaha's site. The site does not say that this model has a GH3 action, but if there's a third sensor, that's what it is.

Yamaha's actions have a good reputation for durability and quality control.

The 181 also has MIDI In/Out. If, down the road, you want to explore software pianos, those MIDI connections will become a very good thing. (IMO Yamaha's weak point is that the company samples their own pianos;-))

It seems that any new DP would be an upgrade to what I currently have. Lucky Me!

Next week I'll start visiting stores. I'll take along my cans and H4n and record every piano I try.

Yamaha says it's a GH keyboard. The 3 (as in 3-layer sampling) refers to the sampling levels, not the keyboard action/sensors.

Today I had the opportunity to rehearse Yamahas: YDP-141, CLP-320, CLP-330 and CLP-380.
Difference between my current DP and YDP-141 is huge. But the difference between 141 and the other models mentioned above, hmm...Long story short: the cheapest of the punch, YDP-141, was the best. Maybe I just do not understand how good the more expensive models are. But it is very difficult to justify the price of CLP-320 (1200eur) or CLP-330 (1600), not to mention CLP-380 (4500eur). YDP-141 was 800eur. I mean, 141 was as good as 320. 330 and 380 were a bit different but not significantly better than 141.
I have to visit another Yammy store to try YDP-181.

What next? Kawai wholesale is some 60km away from where I live. I contacted them and they are going make it so that I can try the new models. Very kind of them.

Perhaps you're not accustomed to the feel of the other pianos?The YDP141 has the GHS keyboard action. Very light, hard to control, very thumpy. The CLP320 has the much better GH action, which gives better control. The CLP330 and CLP380 have the GH3 action, which gives better repetition (but that might not be important to you.)

The GH and GH3 feel much more like a real piano than the GHS found on the YDP141. I'm guessing that you didn't notice this because you're currently using an unweighted keyboard?

That is true.



I use a real Yamaha piano during lessons. I'd better give up trying to compare real and digital pianos. I am a beginner and these two kinds are just different. It is easier for me to think that way.

Regarding 131 vs 141/320. What really confused me was the sound. It was easy to compare 131 and 141; the keyboard on 141 felt familiar (it was like 131), but there was more control, more dynamics. But 141 vs 330 was strange: the touch was different, it was easy to feel the difference, but the sound was the same. Very weird and confusing.

P.S.
I thought GH3 would be as easy as Guitar Hero 3, but I was wrong. Damn, I need to practice!

Yes, the YDP141 and CLP330 will sound much alike. Both have 3-level sampling.

If you look at a wide range of Yamaha pianos (without getting TOO expensive) ...
YDP141 ... GHS ... 3-level
YDP160 ... GH ... 3-level
YDP161 ... GH .... 3-level
YDP181 ... GH .... 3-level
CLP320 ... GH .... 3-level
CLP330 ... GH3.... 3-level
... you see that all of these have 3-level sampling. The main difference is in the keyboard action (shown) and in the styles, features, sound systems, etc (not shown).

I have done my testing for now.

Yamaha is a public library. Kawai is like people around campfire. Roland is surfer riding.

I'm gonna stick with my YDP-131. It is like ronald mcdonald eating sundae in a zoo. It is as good as the "new" and "better" and "improved" models. Fecking toys. The only thing improved is the way how manufacturers cheat on consumers. Pathetic. Disposable junk with no real value.

I know, I have to calm down.

Thanks for help!

You owe it to yourself to jazz the glass with both the RD-700NX and the FP-7F from Roland when they hit the surf shops.


Dude, just relax. You're going to blow out your squeaker. Not everything out there is weak sauce.

Hi,

The FP-7F (<2000$) would be a great product to wait for (its on my short-list). Its existing avatar, the FP-7 retails for 1700$.

The Kawai ES6 (1700$) has a lot of features. Hopefully it will be upgraded with their latest action and sound samples just like what's happening with the FP-7F.

The Korg Pa588 (2500$) is piano with a large screen. Its got their RH3 action.

All the above have onboard speakers (I believe all have speaker boxes of their own). The amps are between 26w to 30w.

Brian