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#1507174 - 09/01/10 12:02 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Melodialworks Music]
box Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 29
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.


If you are referring to the key wear thing, it should also be noted that Roland has stated the cause was most likely alcohol coming into contact with the keys. No alcohol -- it says that in the manual.

Design oversight, communication issue, or maybe a product needing a certain amount of awareness by the user...but I'm not sure I would call it a quality control problem.

So far my keys are doing fine.

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#1507177 - 09/01/10 12:08 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: box]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3946
Loc: Banned
Originally Posted By: box
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music

4) I wonder if they have FINALLY fixed the problematic fake ivory coating? I actually think that it feels good. However, there seems to be some sort of quality control issue - with some, not all units utilizing this technology.


If you are referring to the key wear thing, it should also be noted that Roland has stated the cause was most likely alcohol coming into contact with the keys. No alcohol -- it says that in the manual.

Design oversight, communication issue, or maybe a product needing a certain amount of awareness by the user...but I'm not sure I would call it a quality control problem.

So far my keys are doing fine.



And now this key covering is going into the stage pianos.
I can't imagine that a stage piano or a stage pianist might come into contact with alcohol.

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#1507201 - 09/01/10 12:51 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Suryaman Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 131
Loc: Italy&Orange County, CA
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: Suryaman
I'm sorry for Nord (Piano). Maybe it could have the best sounds in the market...

Maybe if they upped their Flash capacity 10x - but otherwise, no. And the whole Fatar thing is just too risky for my blood, they need to find themselves a keyboard manufacturer with a better track record.


For me their 512mb are enough, you can load a lot of beautiful and detailed ac pianos and el pianos.

The real problem is the action. Altough Fatar makes good actions the one chosen by Nord is not at the same level of Yamaha and Roland competitors. Nord should put the action of the Numa Nero into his Nord Piano to be on par with Roland and Yamaha but I guess the weight would increase a lot...

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#1507207 - 09/01/10 01:03 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: box]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: box
As a recent buyer of a 700GXF, the only words that come to mind at the moment are: bloody heck.

I can only imagine the trauma recent FP-7 buyers must be experiencing.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507211 - 09/01/10 01:15 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 142
Loc: New York


Absolutely!!! The NX is not that big of a deal if you have the GX/F, but the FP-7F is lightyears ahead of the FP-7!


Edited by Rhodie73 (09/01/10 01:17 PM)
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Roland RD-800, Roland RD-64, Yamaha P-255

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#1507224 - 09/01/10 01:44 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
blueston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 273
Loc: MA, USA
This is exciting. I can't wait to try one, or to buy a used GX at a lower price wink

For me, I think the GX is already very good so I would just want to see

1) Reduced weight. I did not see any published weight yet which is interesting. They need to bring it down at least 10 lbs.

2) Much better EP's. I can't believe all the touting and highlighting they did of the SN EP's which don't sound that impressive to me. Interesting marketing strategy - Why highlight it's worst feature? From what I recall I believe the CP50 has much better EP's.

3) Lastly of course the AP's sound and the action. If it's roughly the same then it would be pretty good. But these 2 features should be noticeably better for it to be considered something new and better. If it turns out to be hard to tell the difference between the GX and NX pianos then to me it will be a failure. What's the point.

Also, I am one of those really worried about the Ivory issue. I wanted a GX for a while now but have been holding off because I hate to spend such big bucks and have such a noticeable and potentially unbearable issue.

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#1507247 - 09/01/10 02:55 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
kiedysktos. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Europe, Poland
In my opinion Roland shouldn't introduce 700GXF, it's not fair to the customers. 700GX with SN update is the same! And when they launched 700GXF, customers thought it will be top model for at least 2 years.
They weren't ready to launch this model at summer NAMM.

FP-7F is good move. Specially because they replaced loud action.

And for me the biggest step on this boards: 700NX, FP-7F and new Juno-Gi all have AUDIO RECORDING, which is big step ahead and should be standard in every board that has USB.
_________________________
Roland FP-4

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#1507332 - 09/01/10 05:45 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
thomsurf Offline
Full Member

Registered: 09/01/10
Posts: 153
Loc: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi guys... Great forum!

I had one of the first RD700GX's over here. Never had a problem with keys wearing off. In my experience this board is the ultimate in terms of ease of use. Absolutely loved the 4 sliders controlling 4 patches at the same time! But I had to let it go due to the fact that I never could get any descent sound on the different amps and pa systems I've used, plus all the EP factory settings pretty much sucked.
Don't get why they filled it with 20 different piano sounds where only 2 or 3 of them sounded good...
If this new NX version has a more 'userfriendly' output and overall better patches I want one smile
_________________________
Roland RD800, JBL PRX612M.

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#1507400 - 09/01/10 08:10 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: kiedysktos.]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: kiedysktos.
In my opinion Roland shouldn't introduce 700GXF, it's not fair to the customers. 700GX with SN update is the same! And when they launched 700GXF, customers thought it will be top model for at least 2 years.

I think it's pretty terrific that they hacked the GX software to the point where a lowly SRX card could give it SN APs - they really didn't have to do that at all, a tremendous gift to everyone who already owned a GX. Afterward they phased out the base model and so had to call the new one something. It makes a fair amount of sense to me from that angle, though I'm sure I'd have a few sour grapes if I just bought a GX/F.

GX is getting kind of old now, I didn't think it would go another two years without an update of some sort. Very glad to see PHAIII in the NX, I wonder if that's pressure from Casio putting triple sensor in everything?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507404 - 09/01/10 08:23 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
Very glad to see PHAIII in the NX, I wonder if that's pressure from Casio putting triple sensor in everything?


Yes, that is the obvious thought that I think many of us have. smile

Btw, when I tested forte repetition of the PHAIII, I still didn't think it was all that fantastic. Didn't test pianissimo. If it weren't for the fact that I simply don't have any problems doing forte repetition on a real piano (in the same playing/testing fashion), I would have started to doubt my own technique.

Greg.

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#1507405 - 09/01/10 08:25 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: thomsurf]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: thomsurf
Hi guys... Great forum!

Welcome thomsurf!

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
I had one of the first RD700GX's over here. Never had a problem with keys wearing off. In my experience this board is the ultimate in terms of ease of use. Absolutely loved the 4 sliders controlling 4 patches at the same time!

I agree, in many ways the UI reminds me of the Kawai MP8.

I'm looking through the FP-7 manual and the UI seems fairly cryptic for certain functions. For example, velocity scaling is selected by holding down the "reverb" button and then pressing the "sound control" button. The GX in comparison has tons of options regarding velocity and they are in fairly straightforward seeming menus. I want the FP-7F internal speakers and form factor but I don't know if I can tolerate a lamer UI.

Originally Posted By: thomsurf
But I had to let it go due to the fact that I never could get any descent sound on the different amps and pa systems I've used, plus all the EP factory settings pretty much sucked.

A common complaint with the RD. Some have had some success by heavily tweaking the parameters, I assume you've gone this route?
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507408 - 09/01/10 08:29 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: sullivang]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: sullivang
Btw, when I tested forte repetition of the PHAIII, I still didn't think it was all that fantastic.

Oh, I know I mention it too much, it's just one of my bugbears. If the third sensor is essentially free, I definitely want it. Like adequately large sample sets should be almost free at this point but for some reason aren't - I want those too.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507412 - 09/01/10 08:36 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Dewster,
Yes, I want triple sensors too.

Changing the subject - in one of the Roland videos (I think), they mention that the "sound focus" is related to "phase optimisation". Do you understand what this means? Phase adjustments, if they are performed dynamically, MUST involve a temporary pitch shift, yes?
(I have no idea what components of the sound undergo this "phase optimisation" though)

Greg.

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#1507415 - 09/01/10 08:44 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Sydney, Australia
(sorry - it's "phase-correction", and it's mentioned here in the text: http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx )

Greg.

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#1507422 - 09/01/10 09:02 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: sullivang]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: sullivang
Changing the subject - in one of the Roland videos (I think), they mention that the "sound focus" is related to "phase optimisation". Do you understand what this means? Phase adjustments, if they are performed dynamically, MUST involve a temporary pitch shift, yes?
(I have no idea what components of the sound undergo this "phase optimisation" though)

From the video:
Players will also appreciate the new Sound Focus technology, allowing them to adjust the piano sound to cut through an ensemble performance without changing the essential tonal character or EQ of the piano.

From the text:
The innovative Sound Focus feature ensures that every note will be heard, even subtle pianissimo passages. Based on SuperNATURAL phase-correction technology, this essential feature ensures the RD-700NX won’t get lost in the mix, penetrating through walls of sound without compressing or coloring the tone. Players can relax and play naturally, achieving presence onstage without sacrificing dynamics and sound quality.

I have no freaking idea what they're talking about when they use the term "phase". They claim it isn't compression but it sounds like it to me in the video. It kind of smacks of the phase manipulation BS (IMO) promulgated by BBE to describe their special process of enhancing highs.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507531 - 09/02/10 03:41 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: box]
Aidan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/23/08
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: box
As a recent buyer of a 700GXF, the only words that come to mind at the moment are: bloody heck.


I don't see too much to grieve about here, to be honest. The action may be a slight upgrade but mostly I see this as probably cheaper overall for Roland to manufacture while charging more. You have a second MFX circuit and an expansion slot free. OK, the SRX boards are not spectacular but they are useful for substantially increasing the RD's sonic palette.
_________________________
Yamaha CP40 | Hammond SK1-61 | Kurzweil PC361

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#1507533 - 09/02/10 03:50 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
Blargh. I think I'm gonna return my GXF (though it sounds great) and wait a bit for the NX. I'm planning on keeping the keyboard for at least the next 2 years, so I figure I'd rather get the latest board (action & all), especially since the price difference will be negligible if this is anywhere near accurate: http://www.andysmusiconline.com/products/roland-rd700nx.html

I hate not having a piano at home, but maybe using acoustics on a regular basis for a month or 2 would be helpful to my technique..
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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#1507544 - 09/02/10 04:27 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
sullivang Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 2204
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: dewster
It kind of smacks of the phase manipulation BS (IMO) promulgated by BBE to describe their special process of enhancing highs.


Thanks, and yes, some of the info on the BBE site does seem similar! The speaker correction that they talk about makes sense to me.

Side note: I once tore my hair out trying to figure out why some sounds sounded so different when played back from my soundcard. Turned out that my system was inverting the phase, and some low frequency tones sounded very different. Apparently some people are sensitive to absolute phase and others aren't. smile

Greg.

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#1507674 - 09/02/10 10:13 AM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: sullivang]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: sullivang
Thanks, and yes, some of the info on the BBE site does seem similar! The speaker correction that they talk about makes sense to me.

It sort of makes sense, but I don't believe they are actually doing group delay. When BBE first hit the scene technical people tried to interpret their literature and came up empty. It really seemed like a snow job, with various terms being bandied about with only partial regard to their very specific meanings.

I own the BBE MAXIE Sonic Maximizer Model 402 (really old unit) - it seems to me their process is simply a level sensitive treble boost, which will of course boost highs without noticeably increasing hiss. The process knob just changes the compression threshold - the downside here is that hotter signals may produce more highs than you want, so I see it as more of a mastering tool, something to apply after the levels are well established. Not sexy enough in the light of day to sell like hotcakes, I suppose. People seem to have a need for a secret weapon in their audio arsenal with serious mystical gravitas, a slot BBE was only too happy to fill with a flimsy unit and boatload of empty jargon.

One final thing about the BBE: one of the channels in mine crapped out so I opened it up to see if I could fix it. Turns out they route the audio in there via a CD4000 series analog switch, which is kind of not the thing to do if you are super serious about fidelity. I pulled off the old part, installed a socket, and put in a new one (I believe it was one of the improved later families) and it started working like new. Currently my unit is performing spectacularly as a dust catcher, it only has consumer RCA I/O so it adds too much noise to any pro audio signal chain I've tried to put it in.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507767 - 09/02/10 12:33 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
McDonuts Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/25/09
Posts: 8
The NX blurb mentions "3 pianos with 30 variations." As I understand it, the GXF/SNKit has 4 fundamental sample sets that form the "base" pianos (but with fewer built-in variations):

Grand Piano 1 - the Expressive Grand sample set (RD700GX)
Grand Piano 2 - Superior (RD700SX)
Grand Piano 3 - Ultimate (Ultimate Pianos)
Grand Piano 4 - Grand RD (RD700?)

It will be interesting to find out a) if the NX is working from any brand-new sample sets and b) if not, which (if any) of the four above was dropped. The Grand RD, being the oldest, seems likely, but that would be unfortunate as it seems to be many users' favorite.

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#1507794 - 09/02/10 01:12 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
blueston Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 273
Loc: MA, USA
Very interesting info about the BBE Dewster. I had always wondered about their "special algorithm" and whether I should buy one. When they described it's like putting glasses on to see better, the Sonic Maximizer lets you hear everything much better, I always thought they were using something like dynamic narrow band filters around all the freq ranges that have the most content to remove nearby frequencies that had lower energy.


Edited by blueston (09/02/10 01:13 PM)

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#1507829 - 09/02/10 01:56 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: blueston]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: blueston
... I always thought they were using something like dynamic narrow band filters around all the freq ranges that have the most content to remove nearby frequencies that had lower energy.

My unit is so old (in the technical sense) that I can't imagine them doing anything very sophisticated in there. IIRC they use a custom IC to keep prying reverse engineers from seeing what they really do at a glance.

And when a manufacturer mentions "phase alignment" as a way to perform some audible magic they are almost always intellectually out in the weeds.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1507872 - 09/02/10 02:46 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: McDonuts]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: McDonuts
The NX blurb mentions "3 pianos with 30 variations."

The Roland site (http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1128) lists the SN APs in the NX as Concert, Studio, and Brilliant, with 30 variations.

This Roland pamphlet (http://www.roland.co.uk/assets/media/pdf/k-rd700gx1.pdf) lists the RD-700GX SRX SN AP expansion voices as the folowing:

SN01 Grand Piano
SN02 Clear Grand
SN03 MellowGrand
SN04 BrightGrand
SN05 Grand Piano2
SN06 UprightPiano
SN07 RagtimeGrand
SN08 Comp Piano
SN09 Grand Piano3
SN10 Grand Piano4
SN11 BrightGrand2
SN12 MellowGrand2
SN13 Honky-Tonk
SN14 Comp Piano2
SN15 Grand Mono
SN16 Mellow Mono
SN17 Bright Mono

Not sure how many fundamentally different sample sets there are in there.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1508010 - 09/02/10 07:59 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
For what it's worth, Sweetwater says the 700NX is shipping this month for $2599: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RD700NX
I put in a return for my GXF, hopefully the NX doesn't take too long to ship laugh


Edited by 7even (09/02/10 07:59 PM)
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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#1508015 - 09/02/10 08:08 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
7even, how difficult was it to return the GXF? I mean, did you not have to provide a reason or anything?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1508026 - 09/02/10 08:32 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
I was up front about wanting to upgrade to the NX, but in general I think that Sweetwater (who I'm working with) has a no questions asked policy. It isn't much of a hassle overall (other than having to pack it up and ship it) smile
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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#1508033 - 09/02/10 08:41 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
Kawai James Online   content
9000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 9088
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Nice one - sounds like they've got a great policy.
What's the limit on this kind of thing over there, by the way?
Is it usually within 30 days of purchase?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

"Richard, none of us could forget you have a CLP-990." - EssBrace, 2014

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#1508036 - 09/02/10 08:48 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: Kawai James]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
Nice one - sounds like they've got a great policy.
What's the limit on this kind of thing over there, by the way?
Is it usually within 30 days of purchase?

Cheers,
James
x


Yup, the return window is 30 days. It helps that I received the board just the other day :P
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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#1508037 - 09/02/10 08:49 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
dewster Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 4340
Loc: Northern NJ
Congrats 7even! Please keep us posted on your impressions of how the two compare.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures!)

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#1508050 - 09/02/10 09:31 PM Re: THE RD-700NX Thread! [Re: dewster]
7even Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/28/09
Posts: 151
Originally Posted By: dewster
Congrats 7even! Please keep us posted on your impressions of how the two compare.


Gladly smile I'll also provide a DPBSD file once I get it.
_________________________
Now: RD-700NX
Someday: Steinway concert grand :|

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