Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Grey market Kawai vs Brodmann grand

First, I'd like to thank you for all the great information you have all posted in previous forums. It has already been a great help to me in my search for a piano. I'd also like to thank you in advance for any input you can give me as well as your patience with a newbie and a relative piano novice.
I am looking for a grand in the $10k range, though I could go a little higher for a great value. I have two options which I am strongly considering:

1. A grey market '93 Kawai NX-40 (6'1")for $10,600. I have had difficulty finding much info on this model, but was told it is comparable to the RX line. It appears to be in great condition and has a very nice sound and feel to my relatively untrained ears. It has a 4-year warranty which will be extended to 8 years if I have a dehumidifying device installed. I know there is controversy about whether these grey market pianos will have problems due to humidity issues, but am I right in believing that this may not be such an problem for me as I live in Florida? Fine seems to indicate that he doesn't think it's such a problem. If this piano really is comparable to an RX-3, it seems like it would be an amazing value at this price. And if there was an issue, would it be revealed in the 8 years covered by the warranty?

2. The second piano is a new Brodmann 187. The asking price is $12,900, but I believe I could get it closer to $10,000. I have to say that I liked the sound and feel of the Brodmann a little better than the Kawai, although the Brodman was in a smaller recital room while the Kawai was in a warehouse, so this may have effected my perception. The Brodmann had a wonderful sustain, which I've seen in previous forums has been a point of criticism by others. Also, the Brodmann's plate has been signed by two of Brodmann's pianists who apparantly had a recital at the store. I'd be interested to know what you think of that - would that increase or decrease the value of the piano? Would any of you be caught dead with a signed piano? Thank you for forgiving my complete ignorance in this area.

I would greatly appreciate any input you can give on either of these pianos. I understand that though the Brodmanns appear to be quality pianos, especially for the price, they have not yet been proven and I would be assuming some risk in buying one. I also know I may be assuming some risk in buying a grey market Kawai, especially a model that is not common in the States. But I am willing to take some risks in order to find what may be a great deal and will at least be a good piano for myself and my children to enjoy for years to come. Thanks again! -Trevor

While "unproven", I would purchase the Brodmann in a heartbeat before forking out anything approaching your price on the older Kawai. It would be no contest in my mind whatsoever. Just my opinion.

NX 40 is not a US market piano and does not compare to a new RX 3 except for size. No Millennium III Action in an NX 40.

The warranty is not a Kawai factory authorized warranty.
Kawai America will not supply replacement parts for grey market pianos.
The warranty of 4 - 8 years from the dealer, is only as good as the dealer's word and if he goes out of business your warranty is zilch.

Future resale and or trade in value would most likely be terrible.
The NX 40 is about 15 + years old ..
The asking price is ridiculous ...
Some other NX 40 prices I've seen on the internet are ridiculous too. Way way overpriced in my opinion.

New Kawai piano info here: www.kawaius.com

Don't be in a big hurry.

Check out some new Kawai RX and GE 30 grand pianos and other brands first, then buy the Brodmann if you like it better than all the others you've tried.

All the best,

Bear

pt 4kdz,

If you want more information (even have a look at or listen to) a Kawai NX-40, follow the link below (scroll down to item nr #G22):

http://rickjonespianos.com/grands.htm

As to the quality of the Brodmann BG 187 you will find many positive critics on this forum if you do a search on it.
It is less easy to comment on the price you've been quoted for it from Europe.
The only thing I can say is that I do not understand Brodmann's pricing policy.

During the last quarter of 2007 Brodmann increased the prices in Europe for the BG 187 by about 30%; the MRSP overhere is now $23,000. To get it down to even $12,900 it would need to be discounted by 44%.
The lowest price I could find here (Ireland) was $16,920 (probably an old price from before the increase); this is still 31% above the price you've been quoted.

So if I was in for a BG 187 I could better have it shipped from the U.S.?!

schwammerl.

pt4kdz:

Since you're new to this Forum, this being your very first post - would you have the kindness to tell us where exactly you saw the said Brodmann grands for the price you quoted above?

Being Brodmann dealers ourseelves, we are presently backordered of these pianos and can hardly buy them for anything near those prices.

Are things so bad in some areas that some dealers are starting to close their doors perhaps?

We could be interested to purchase any surplus stock should this be the case here!

Thank you very much for your help - much appreciated!

Norbert

That would probably make it grey market!

I can't answer for him, but the only place I know of that sells Broadmann pianos near where pt4kdz and I live - Central Florida - is "Bob and Elliot's Piano Shoppe". They have three locations: Altimonte Springs, Orlando, and Sanford. All three locations are a short distance from where pt4kdz lives: Winter Springs.

Thank you so much for your fast and very helpful replies. It looks like the Kawai isn't the deal we thought it was and the Brodmann may be a much better deal than we thought. The Brodmann was at Bob and Elliott's as Frank K deducted. They had a Kawai RX2 right next to the Brodmann. The RX2 was the first piano he brought us to. I understand why Kawai's are so highly regarded, but I honestly was more impressed with the sound of the Brodmann, and at almost half the price it's quite tempting. Norbert, please don't run down here and grab it out from under me! Not until I make my decision, at least.

Anyone have any opinions on the autographs on it? I'm curious what you think about that and whether it would effect the value of the piano.

Many many thanks again!

The plate autographs will add nothing unless they are the autographs of top-drawer performers with very high name recognition.

On the other hand, if I were you I would definitely pin down the use history of that piano for in-store recitals, demos, etc. and ask how long the piano has been on the floor and whether it has been out on the road for promotional use and/or recitals.

I was offered the 6'4" Brodmann for $12,000 - delivered - from Roger's in Hanover Mass...

pt4kdz,

The Broadmann offered at that price falls in line with Larry Fines suggested list, even though we in the industry consider his prices often on the low side.

I know of a dealer that puts on sale/discounted the BG161 @ 16500.00 in stock and with no import duties to Canada (unlike the U.S.)and a $ on par seems a bit excessive.

Brodmann are very nice pianos and at the price you are quoted (or less) a very good deal.

Give it consideration.

A few comments pertaining to the Kawai NX40. I've had many over the years and have 1 at present.
Personally it is a great performance piano for the $ if in newer low milage cond. I thought it was quite comparable to the earlier RX3 with same harp,duplex scaling,neotex keytops,slow fall fallboard.The action utilized the abs flanges with wood shanks. Seemed to perform and play great up to that Kawai japanese precision level. They are of gray market but their wholesale price from the japanese wholesalers is considerably less than an equivelent year RX3 due to mdl. recognition not as for the quality of the piano. In some respects it is more upgraded in it's cosmetics (ornate brass nose bolts etc.) If obtainable in new cond. I'll buy every one I can get. This is a thumbs up for the underdog.
Unfortunately due to my busy Namm scheduele I didn't really play the Broadman 187 but from everyones review, it must be nice.
Not to confuse the issue the new prototype 6'5" Hailun designed by Frank(scale designer) formerly from Baldwin and most recent M&H is killer. A colleague made mention that "this is what a Baldwin should sound like" The 7' prototype from reknown French custom scale designer ? was also exceptional for value plus performance. Needless to say the 5'10" Hailun got a thumbs up from all my piano professional dealers
whom I conversed with at or after the show.

pianobroker,

As to compliment the "?" in:
:

The French designer is Paulello: http://www.stephenpaulello.com/index.html

Buy the way in Europe it is no longer a prototype. I can be had as a Wendl & Lung 218 Concert Pro I Paulello for about $31,100.

schwammmerl.

This is true, Steigerman pre-sold one of these pianos to Europe as well.
[special deal for church...]

Which would also compare to this grand readily available on the market over here already:
http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/grand_piano_2120.html

With some people having actually reported about this particular piano here on the Forum before.

Norbert

Thanks all once again for your input. We actually just agreed to buy a 4-year old Boston GP-178 from a private seller. It looks to be in perfect condition, though we will of course have it checked by a technician. It has a beautiful mellow voice that will be great for classical music, though I did note a little muddiness in the low bass. I can live with that though. I think we got a steal at only $9000. I can't wait to get it in my house and start playing!

Congratulations - good buy!

Norbert

Congrats Sounds like a great deal. Your tech can juice the bass or ? if need be, No big deal