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#1518295 - 09/19/10 06:00 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1148
Loc: Whale Beach, Australia (home a...
Originally Posted By: Kawai James


Are you referring to the pictures on this page?

http://www.kawai.co.jp/ep/products/mp10/gallery.html

If so, I agree that the images are a little small. However, I very much doubt that this is because anyone within Kawai Japan's domestic division wishes to hide the interface. More likely the web chap just wanted to show a shot of the whole instrument, rather than a close-up.


Its not a question of what you do ... its a question of what your competitors ARE doing.

Well James if you look at Yamaha's website pic of the CP5 when expanded
http://www.yamahasynth.com/common/contents/photo/en/000427/cp5_o_0001_f_v.jpg

Or Roland's of the RD700NX .....

http://cms.rolandus.com/assets/images/products/gallery/rd-700nx_top_gal.jpg

You might see what I'm getting at..... compared to your competitors Kawai's web presence isn't up to par.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James

I'm sorry, I'm afraid I don't quite follow what you mean. Kawai instruments are sold by Kawai dealers - is this an uncommon practise?


No but Kawai reply on distributors (not retailers) that they do not own to distribute their products in various parts of the world. The European and American operations appears to operate with little joint cooperation with the Japanese parent. Roland and Yamaha integrate their marketing operations as a worldwide effort.

Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Yes, I accept that. As I posted a few days ago, Kawai's approach to marketing is a little old fashioned. However, the exceptional quality of our acoustic and digital instruments cannot be questioned. I expect most individuals would suggest that this is far more important than hires pictures and cutting-edge web marketing.


There is no point having the best products in the world if the majority of your market is unaware of their benefits and features.
You can have the best DP in history but If you don't show it nobody will know it .....
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1518748 - 09/19/10 10:52 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Kawai James Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 5090
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Dr Popper,

Thank you for your post. Again, you make some valid points, however I'm not terribly happy with the direction that this thread is taking. It appears to be descending into a general criticism of Kawai's marketing techniques, rather than a focussed discussion on the new MP models as the original poster intended.

There are a number of points specifically related to marketing and distribution that I don't believe should be discussed outside of this public forum as they do not really help to develop this particular thread. I have therefore sent you a private message - I hope this is okay.

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1518756 - 09/19/10 11:05 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
I'm not terribly happy with the direction that this thread is taking. It appears to be descending into a general criticism of Kawai's marketing techniques, rather than a focussed discussion on the new MP models as the original poster intended.

The trouble is that when there's a dearth of new information to discuss, most threads either die or degenerate into something off-topic. This one's in a holding pattern...

On the subject of marketing, maybe we should start a MMBSD thread grin
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1518807 - 09/20/10 12:52 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1148
Loc: Whale Beach, Australia (home a...
Originally Posted By: Kawai James

Thank you for your post. Again, you make some valid points, however I'm not terribly happy with the direction that this thread is taking. It appears to be descending into a general criticism of Kawai's marketing techniques, rather than a focussed discussion on the new MP models as the original poster intended.
x


Believe me James I agree with you ! I'd love to be discussing the benefits and specifics of the new MP6/10's but my main point about Kawai's marketing really was that without detailed information,demonstrations and samples its quite difficult to get a handle these boards and what they offer.

Please don't feel I am attacking the MP6/10 in any way. They in fact appear to be at first glance excellent boards and I am confident that when the boards surface and more details emerge and people have the chance to play them that they will be highly competitive and well received.
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1518843 - 09/20/10 03:30 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 749
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
What kind of trolley would be suitable for comfortably transporting an MP10?
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#1518864 - 09/20/10 05:04 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: TADutchman]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
What kind of trolley would be suitable for comfortably transporting an MP10?

Something like one of the latest ambulance gurneys! They are basically X-frames with wheels and hydraulics. The piano is transported on the frame and then raised automatically to the desired playing height. It would need a top cover built-in. Maybe a little spendy, but hey, if the MP10 sounds as good as it looks, it might be worth it!

Actually, if you go to the B&H website and look up "carts and handtrucks", there are many potential solutions there:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Carts-Handtrucks/ci/224/N/4291634327


Edited by voxpops (09/20/10 05:21 AM)
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1518902 - 09/20/10 07:31 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 749
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Okay, thanks. Based on that, I found a cost-efficient solution that at least works for the MP8 II (also MP10?):
http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/Tastenins...-150--8662.html
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1519205 - 09/20/10 04:17 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
JFP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 292
Loc: The Netherlands
Is there any new info out apart from what we know already since the "introduction" of the MP10/MP6 ? We have the single initial JP / UK folder material and some words from Kawai Germany (no info yet) and Kawai James (info is coming...when the time is right ;-)

I would like to know roughly how long it's going to take before the 'real' introduction takes place, so I don't have to check this forum-thread and Google for 'Kawai MP10' everyday. Got other things to do as well..; will it be a month , a few weeks or at least november before the rest of the details become available ? Any info on that will be appreciated and will make sure I can put it to rest for the moment.

Thanks, J

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#1519222 - 09/20/10 04:45 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: TADutchman]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
Okay, thanks. Based on that, I found a cost-efficient solution that at least works for the MP8 II (also MP10?):
http://www.musicworldbrilon.de/Tastenins...-150--8662.html

Sorry, I misunderstood due to confusion of terminology. If you're looking for a roller case, I can recommend the large, soft-sided Gator cases. Not too expensive or heavy, and offering reasonably good protection.
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1519224 - 09/20/10 04:47 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: JFP]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: JFP
Is there any new info out apart from what we know already since the "introduction" of the MP10/MP6 ? We have the single initial JP / UK folder material and some words from Kawai Germany (no info yet) and Kawai James (info is coming...when the time is right ;-)

I would like to know roughly how long it's going to take before the 'real' introduction takes place, so I don't have to check this forum-thread and Google for 'Kawai MP10' everyday. Got other things to do as well..; will it be a month , a few weeks or at least november before the rest of the details become available ? Any info on that will be appreciated and will make sure I can put it to rest for the moment.

Thanks, J



But I bet this non-introduction has stopped you going out and buying a Yamaha or Roland. wink

Actually, I'm hoping they use this time to rush out an MP10-lite. Size and weight of the MP6 but with the 10's UPHI engine married to the 6's action. James, are you lighting fires? wink wink
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1519262 - 09/20/10 05:32 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
JFP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 292
Loc: The Netherlands
No I have not; I like the Rm3 action and the no-nonsense design approach of Kawai too much. Also I do not want to get into negative discussion about Kawai . Just want to head more details , because what little that we know has already been discussed and no new info seems to have arrived since the 'introduction' from beginning of september. We were told to be patient and wait for more info and I just want to know how long we should wait in terms of days, weeks, months...

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#1519281 - 09/20/10 05:58 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Kawai James Online   content
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 5090
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
JFP, may I ask what kind of information you would be satisfied with?

Additional (higher resolution) images, owner's manual PDFs, sound clips...all three perhaps?

Cheers,
James
x
_________________________
Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.

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#1519311 - 09/20/10 06:37 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James]
Rhodie73 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 56
Loc: New York
Actually an introductory video similar to what Roland did or sound clips like what Yamaha did when they introduced the new CP series, wouldn't be too shabby wink

I have an idea of what the acoustic pianos are going to sound like but, I'm really interested in hearing the improved Rhodes electric pianos. smile
_________________________
Rhodes Stage 73 (MKII), Yamaha CP50, Roland Fantom X8, M-Audio Axiom 61

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#1519353 - 09/20/10 07:37 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: voxpops]
ChrisA Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 3768
Loc: Redondo Beach, California
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
What kind of trolley would be suitable for comfortably transporting an MP10?

Something like one of the latest ambulance gurneys! They are basically X-frames with wheels and hydraulics. The piano is transported on the frame and then raised automatically to the desired playing height. It would need a top cover built-in. Maybe a little spendy,


A few years back I worked for a company and we had some cases custom made for a client. Some were a lot like what you describe above.

It was a scissors-lift case on wheels. Not for a piano but exactly the same concept. You don't need a strong hydraulic system because much of the weight is taken with a spring that is sized for the load weight.

Our only mistake was to listen to the client who told us "It MUST be no wider then 36 inches." We simply passed this to the case builder. The builder told us he'd prefer to use more foam padding inside but 36" could work. So he made it a hair under 36.

What I always do now is ask "Why?" if a customer wants something very specific. It turns out he wanted the case to fit through a door. Had he said that we'd have gone with 34.5". Standard doors are 36" but the stop moulding around the door jams takes away space.

Turns out our client came up wit a work around: Wheel the case up to a door, remove the content, take the lid off the case and turn in sideways. Push all three through the door and then reassemble it all, put in back on wheel and keep going. Fortunately (1) They blamed themselves for getting exactly what they asked for and (2) most venues have double doors with removable center post.

Anyway we had several of these made and they were fun to use at the office, they worked just like car jacks. We used Maryland Sound to build well over 100 custom cases for that job. Sense then I've heard a few cases full of heavy gear have tumbled off loading docks and survived just fine.

.


Edited by ChrisA (09/20/10 07:39 PM)

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#1519355 - 09/20/10 07:42 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Rhodie73]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Rhodie73
Actually an introductory video similar to what Roland did or sound clips like what Yamaha did when they introduced the new CP series, wouldn't be too shabby wink

I have an idea of what the acoustic pianos are going to sound like but, I'm really interested in hearing the improved Rhodes electric pianos. smile

+1
I, too, am eager to hear the APs and EPs from both models, as well as tonewheels from the MP6. And please, no Minute Waltz or other overly staccato pieces!
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1519357 - 09/20/10 07:48 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: ChrisA]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: ChrisA
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
What kind of trolley would be suitable for comfortably transporting an MP10?

Something like one of the latest ambulance gurneys! They are basically X-frames with wheels and hydraulics. The piano is transported on the frame and then raised automatically to the desired playing height. It would need a top cover built-in. Maybe a little spendy,


A few years back I worked for a company and we had some cases custom made for a client. Some were a lot like what you describe above.

It was a scissors-lift case on wheels. Not for a piano but exactly the same concept. You don't need a strong hydraulic system because much of the weight is taken with a spring that is sized for the load weight.

Our only mistake was to listen to the client who told us "It MUST be no wider then 36 inches." We simply passed this to the case builder. The builder told us he'd prefer to use more foam padding inside but 36" could work. So he made it a hair under 36.

What I always do now is ask "Why?" if a customer wants something very specific. It turns out he wanted the case to fit through a door. Had he said that we'd have gone with 34.5". Standard doors are 36" but the stop moulding around the door jams takes away space.

Turns out our client came up wit a work around: Wheel the case up to a door, remove the content, take the lid off the case and turn in sideways. Push all three through the door and then reassemble it all, put in back on wheel and keep going. Fortunately (1) They blamed themselves for getting exactly what they asked for and (2) most venues have double doors with removable center post.

Anyway we had several of these made and they were fun to use at the office, they worked just like car jacks. We used Maryland Sound to build well over 100 custom cases for that job. Sense then I've heard a few cases full of heavy gear have tumbled off loading docks and survived just fine.

.

Well, if manufacturers continue to come up with 70lbs plus pianos, you might be back in business!!!
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1519449 - 09/20/10 10:43 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: voxpops]
dewster Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 3410
Loc: Northern NJ
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Something like one of the latest ambulance gurneys!

Most DPs should be on a gurney to the morgue, to find out why they are so lifeless.
_________________________
The DPBSD Project!
THE RD-700NX Thread!
DPs Exposed! (nekid pichures)

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#1519457 - 09/20/10 11:02 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: dewster]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: dewster
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Something like one of the latest ambulance gurneys!

Most DPs should be on a gurney to the morgue, to find out why they are so lifeless.

Someone once suggested we call our band Autopsy Turvy - kinda wish we had now!
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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#1519467 - 09/20/10 11:25 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Jake Jackson Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 450
Loc: Atlanta, GA
Some bad news: I stopped by the local Sam Ash store and was told that they no longer sell Kawai instruments. I may have a hard time testing out these new instruments here in Atlanta once they're released.


Edited by Jake Jackson (09/20/10 11:27 PM)

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#1519476 - 09/20/10 11:48 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Kawai James]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1148
Loc: Whale Beach, Australia (home a...
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
JFP, may I ask what kind of information you would be satisfied with?

...all three perhaps?

Cheers,
James
x


smile
_________________________
"I'm still an idiot and I'm still in love" - Blue Sofa - The Plugz 1981 (Tito Larriva)
Disclosure : I am professionally supported by but not beholden to various musical instrument manufactures including Yamaha

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#1519538 - 09/21/10 03:10 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Dr Popper]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 749
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Dr Popper
Originally Posted By: Kawai James
JFP, may I ask what kind of information you would be satisfied with?

...all three perhaps?

Cheers,
James
x


smile

+1 thumb
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1519539 - 09/21/10 03:12 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Jake Jackson]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3574
Loc: Amsterdam
Originally Posted By: Jake Jackson
Some bad news: I stopped by the local Sam Ash store and was told that they no longer sell Kawai instruments. I may have a hard time testing out these new instruments here in Atlanta once they're released.


Welcome to the club.

(Ex)Retailers find Kawai even more exasperating and difficult to do business with as their prospective (ex) customers.

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#1519563 - 09/21/10 05:03 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 749
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
@TheJourney: would you mind sharing your opinion on the new Kawai MP10/MP6, which are the topic of this thread?
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1519569 - 09/21/10 05:21 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
JFP Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/19/10
Posts: 292
Loc: The Netherlands
@Kawai James: yes, yes and yes . Especially the user manual will be very helpful to answer most questions people may have about the MP10/Mp6.

And, if at all possible, a rough estimate of when we can expect more details about pricing /ordering in terms of weeks , months , days (hours, whatever ;-)

Many thanks,
J

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#1519571 - 09/21/10 05:27 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: TADutchman]
theJourney Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 3574
Loc: Amsterdam
Originally Posted By: TADutchman
@TheJourney: would you mind sharing your opinion on the new Kawai MP10/MP6, which are the topic of this thread?


TADutchman, would you mind sticking to objective topics rather than playing amateur moderator and making other posters the topic?

Based on the (lack of) facts now available, I am of the opinion that the MP6 and MP10 are either wishful thinking or pre-emptive vaporware -- until Kawai gives us credible evidence to the contrary. Kawai is fully responsible for this, not you or me.

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#1519586 - 09/21/10 05:55 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: theJourney]
TADutchman Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/26/10
Posts: 749
Loc: Apeldoorn, The Netherlands
Thanks for sharing your opinion! shocked wink

My (not so) wild guess is that especially the MP10 will be a winner. cool
_________________________
K A W A I ..... R O L A N D ......... E - M U
C A - 9 3 ......... A X - 7 ...... X B O A R D - 4 9

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#1519697 - 09/21/10 10:46 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Jeff Clef Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/05/08
Posts: 3458
Loc: San Jose, CA
"Welcome to the club. (Ex)Retailers find Kawai even more exasperating and difficult to do business with as their prospective (ex) customers."

Interesting perspective, though I can't say I understand it.

When I asked my piano seller why they carried Kawai, the answer came back right away, "Because they're so great to do business with!" followed up by several examples--- warranty service, for one thing.

We were talking about their APs, though they carry DPs also (and I eventually bought one from them).

Well, James, the PDF of the manual for the new DPs would probably edify your anxious and hungry pack. It's where I start, when I'm trying to figure out what equipment to buy, and it would probably be easier to field than getting an announced product from the fab to the point of sale. Those big container ships only move so fast,and they have half a world to go around...
_________________________
Clef


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#1519720 - 09/21/10 11:24 AM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Deffie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 105
Agreed on the manual. While all would be appreciated, that's what I'm most interested in right now (and knowing that they're done and we just can't see it yet makes it worse smile )

Aaron
_________________________
Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10

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#1519830 - 09/21/10 01:57 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
Deffie Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/02/10
Posts: 105
High-res image of the MP10 controls: http://www.kawai.de/grafik/mp10_panel.jpg

Aaron
_________________________
Playing since April 2010.
Kawai MP10

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#1519836 - 09/21/10 02:04 PM Re: New Kawai MP6 and MP10 Stage Pianos [Re: Deffie]
voxpops Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 1745
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Deffie
High-res image of the MP10 controls: http://www.kawai.de/grafik/mp10_panel.jpg

Aaron

Thanks for finding that, Aaron.

So refreshing to see what looks like a really well thought-out and logical interface. Can't wait to hear it!
_________________________
Roland FP-7F & FP-4, Kawai MP6, Numa Piano & Organ,
Roland JP-8000 & JV-1010, Plugiator, VB3, Pianoteq

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