Honestly chaps, I wouldn't get so hung-up on the Harmonic Imaging naming (although I'd be lying if I said that EssBrace's post didn't raise a smile...) - it's just a means to differentiate between the entry-level, mid-range, and premium piano sound technologies.

Cheers,
James
x

It looks like the MP-6 does not have XLR outputs like the CP-5 and RX-700G do. I'm not using the ones on my SV-1 73 but it seems like a standard feature on pianos in this price range? I have to admit I'm not up on the advantages/disadvantages of XLR vs 1/4" outputs. I see the MP-10 appears to have the XLR fittings.

The MP10 features XLRs, the MP6 does not.

This specification difference has existed since the MP8/MP4, and was the same with MP8II/MP5.

The MP6 will compete with the Yamaha CP50 and RD300 - neither of which feature XLR connectors.

Kind regards,
James
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My apologies James, I thought the MP-6 was a CP-5/RX-700 challanger. I see I need to study up on the Kawai line up a bit more. I will say I love the location of the pitch wheels and the overall look of both units.

If the MP5 and MP8II are any indicators then MP6 will probably be around $1200 and MP10 around $2000. So while the MP10 is in a similar-ish price range to the CP-5 and RD-700, the MP6 isn't really (I still find it pretty amazing how well-spec'd the MP5 and now MP6 are for the price).

Aaron

James, I think you are blaming the victim just a little. Is it our fault for wanting specific, meaningful, and relevant info on the very technical and rather expensive musical products that we might be purchasing?

It's nice they let us know about it a bit early.

I'll have to wait to see it, play it, and listen to it (and read the manual)--- and all that could take awhile.

BTW, MP8ii didn't list at two grand US when it was new; it was closer to $3500.

I wonder if MP10 (and the 6) may have add-on modules eventually to boost up the internal sound capability...?

While I'd certainly believe that the MP8II started off higher than it is now, the only info that I can find is an MSRP of $2500 (and my perhaps misguided understanding is that MSRP usually stays the same and if anything retailers drop their prices over time).

Either way, the MSRP in yen is about $120 more for the MP6 and MP10 compared to their previous models, so for the time being I'll keep hoping the MP10 will be about $2000

Aaron

dewster, I don't believe there are any victims here - the customer is ultimately free to choose whether or not they decided to purchase an instrument.

Of course, I can fully appreciate that technically-oriented individuals - such as yourselves - wish to know as much as possible about the instruments they're considering. It's only natural - I was the same when shopping for my new bike.

That's why I am an active member of this forum. I like to think I do a pretty good job of providing meaningful, relevant information, while answering specific questions to a reasonably technical level. Of course, there will often be times when company policy dictates that I cannot or should not answer questions related to proprietary technologies such as Harmonic Imaging. However, for the most part I will endeavour to provide as much information as possible - that's pretty much the best I can do.

Cheers,
James
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Hi James, then a non-technical question; I did email Kawai Europe for details about price and release (delivery-) dates, but as usual no response, so perhaps you have a clue ? On the Japan site there are the Yen factory prices and I assume release dates (somewhere near the end of 2010). But I don't know if that's reliable information for the distribution in Europe.

Thanks, J

Relieved but also very disappointed to see I am not the only one who never gets answers to questions or even the courtesy of acknowledging receipt of questions posed to Kawai Europe (i.e. the German distributor).

My frustration as well; have tried sometime before. Wasn't surprised to get no answer at all, or only after many weeks; they must be on holiday a lot...

Not important I guess; I only want to spend some money on their products ;-)

I cannot relate to that, because so far, after having forwarded many inquiries, I have always received a timely and to-the-point answer from Michael Kunz and others at Kawai Europe.

By the way, James still is my only stronghold at Kawai Japan...

Perhaps you have another email address , instead of the standard website form ?

I too got very helpful answers from Kawai Sales in the UK when contacting them directly.

I must make a point to have a look at the MP10 it seems very interesting.

Just like I do for discussing some things in private with Kawai James, I send them a PM in either English or German at the Kawai Forum:

http://www.razyboard.com/system/user_kawai.html

A bit of new information on the Kawai forums:

In German or Google Translated

Aaron

James, can you possibly quickly summarize the changes from the MP5 to the MP6?

It really looks like the MP10 is the way to go if you're serious about the quality of both your acoustic and EP sounds. I shall have to wait for MP10-lite!

James, hopefully you can confirm what Google has translated. It seems to be saying that only the MP10 has the better Rhodes/Wurli/Clav sounds. Is that a correct reading of it?

I think most of the details are out in the open now; delivery of MP10 earliest in december, price a bit above current MP prices.

For me personally I'm very undecided on the whole thing. I really, really like the design , keys, build-quality and probably the sound of the MP10, but for a 'portable' piano it's simply just way too heavy for me (the MP8 was that too - that's why I never bought one). It will kill me. I think it's only meant for studio work and/or artists with a army of private Roadies.

The MP6 on the other hand lacks a few features that I really want and that the MP10 does have (better sound quality, audio-input, greater control over internal and external zones to name a few). If the keybed of the MP6 is OK I can live without the wood, if that saves me some Kg's, but I don't want to lose the other features.

If (if...if ....if) there only was a lightweight version of the MP10 (same features, less weight because of the use of lighter material and the MP6 keybed). I know you can never satisfy everyone and every individual will have his own ultimate dream-keyboard in mind, but after waiting so long I'm only more in the dark about what to decide as before the release. Even competition (e.g. RD700NX, FP7F ) becomes an option again. How strange things can go...

I'm in total agreement. I think the pressure will build for Kawai to do exactly that. I believe (although I stand to be corrected) that between the MP5 and MP8II there was no difference in the sound engine. This differentiation between the MP6 and MP10 seems to be more about competing on Yamaha's CP turf than fulfilling the real-world demand for a lightweight, top-quality board. The Korg SV-1 comes close, but is lacking in the refinement department (audible velocity layers etc.)

"...but for a 'portable' piano it's simply just way too heavy for me (the MP8 was that too - that's why I never bought one). It will kill me. I think it's only meant for studio work and/or artists with a army of private Roadies..."

MP8 is quite easy to move, if you have a second person to help. I have spine troubles, and I was still able to move it by myself (just from the shipping box to the stand), no death involved (not so far). Protected in a beer-cooler style case and using a wheeled cart, it would not be so hard.

Anyway, you don't need an army of roadies--- one, part-time, is enough.

I guard my back carefully, so I understand what you're saying--- it's a lot easier to get trouble than it is to get rid of it. The lighter instrument is enough to injure the spine if it's lifted the wrong way.

Which reminds me: how's the bike injury coming along, James? I hope you're healing up rapidly. Thanks for the sneak peaks at the new keyboards... and for being present on the forum to answer questions and such. It's great for us end-users and also really good for Kawai. Tell your boss I said so.

I hate to further muddy the waters, but:

1. Do these new pianos have 88 note sampling?

2. I wonder how an ES6 would sound, compared to these upcoming pianos? Are the new stage pianos going to sound better than the most recent state of the art from Kawai? (I do love the sound of the ES3 and ES6.) But of course we can't know until we hear these upcoming pianos. So we're still left wanting more.

I am not James, but looking at the brochure and comparing to my MP5, this is my guess:

- Improved action: MP5 has Advanced Hammer Action-IV E. MP6 has Responsive Hammer Action with Ivory touch and let-off.

- Improved sounds: MP5 has Harmonic Imaging. MP6 has Progressive Harmonic Imaging. I guess this just means that MP6 has more memory for sounds and includes more layers.

- MP6 adds a tonewheel organ simulator (how the 9 drawbars are moved? I guess faders is the best choice) and an amp simulator.

- MP6 adds USB connectivity and MP3 record and playback.

- Almost forgot that MP6 adds drum patterns.

I don't care for the fourth addition as I have an small mixer table and can record easily to the computer. Better sound is always welcomed, but you can always use external instruments.... but the new action and the organ simulator seem very, very sweet.

MP6 is clearly an evolution of MP5. Is the keyboard I had bought instead of the MP5 if it had been launched six months ago.

But MP10 seems to be a very different beast compared to MP8-II. It is not just an evolution. I am looking forward to see the reviews.

Chaps,

Quite a handful of questions there, thank you. I'll try to respond to them all shortly, however for the time being I'm rather busy preparing brochure translations.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that kurtie has pretty much nailed most of the MP6 improvements, but I'll post again with an extended list later.

Cheers,
James
x

Obviously I can't officially answer for Kawai, but from my understanding:

1. All of Kawai's new pianos have full (or very close to at least) 88 note sampling. I can't think of any reason why these would be any different.

2. From the terminology the MP6 should sound the same as the ES6 for APs at least. The MP10 will probably be at least as good as the CA63/93.

Aaron

Okay, Saturday morning, cup of tea... here we go:

@JFP, I understand that Kawai Europe changed the way customer queries are handled a few months ago. I don't know quite know why you did not receive a response from to your query, however I encourage you to contact Kawai Europe once again.

@anotherscott, kurtie has already posted a pretty comprehensive list of changes. I'm not at my office PC today, so am unable to post the usual comparison table, however here is a brief overview of the new MP6 features:

- New RH action with let-off and Ivory Touch
- New PHA acoustic piano and electric piano sounds
- New tonewheel organ simulator
- New amp simulator
- Improved EFX
- USB audio (MP3/WAV/SMF record and playback)
- USB load/save sound/setup data
- Song recorder
- Metronome + 100 drum rhythms (new stereo drum samples)
- Assignable MMC buttons

@Jeff Cleff, thank you for your kind words.
My ankle is slowly healing thank you. I'm able to ride my bike a little by pedalling mostly with my left ('good') foot and using just the heel of my right (injured) foot to push the pedal around. It's not terribly elegant, but it means I can get out and about, and still exercise a little on my left side. I've lost around 6 kg of muscle in my arms and legs (and I was already very lean before...), and haven't practised yoga properly for a couple of months. I will continue to wear the ankle support for another month or so until the doctor signs me off. Then I'll start using my right foot properly to cycle, gradually return to yoga, and attempt to regain my health and fitness.

I spent New Year's Day this year cycling around lake Hama - a really beautiful part of the world. It's an 80 km ride from the door of my apartment, to the lake, then around, back through Hamamatsu (passing Roland and Yamaha on the way...), and back to my door. If I can do the same ride next year, in a reasonable time and without too much pain or reaction, I'll be very happy.

Anyway back to the thread...

@Jakes Jackson, all Kawai instruments released since the ES6 (mid-2008) have featured 88-key sampling.

The ES6 uses 'Harmonic Imaging' (88-key piano sampling) sound technology, while the MP6 and MP10 use the 'Progressive' and 'Ultra Progressive' standards respectively. The default 'Concert Grand' sound should be directly comparable to the respective PHI and UPHI 'Concert Grand' sounds on the CN23/CN33 and CA93/CA63. However, both the MP10 and MP6 also include additional piano sounds that have yet to be featured on any Kawai instrument, with new key-off/hammer and fall-back sounds, and obviously far greater parameter controls. So in this respect, the MP6/MP10 pianos sounds are almost like extended versions of the existing PHI/UPHI standards.

@kurtie, as I mentioned before, you're pretty much spot-on on all the MP6 improvements/new features - good job.

Regarding the setting of drawbar positions on the MP6 tonewheel sim, an early prototype I saw did indeed use the zone faders to adjust the drawbars. However, I can only assume that this operation caused too many usability problems with the main zone level control and was later rejected. Instead, the drawbars are now controller individually using the value up/down buttons. It's obviously not quite as 'hands on' as the faders method, but it does the job.

@Deffie, yes, as mentioned above, all Kawai instruments since the ES6 have featured 88-key sampling. However, again as noted above, the MP6 should sound much better than the ES6. The MP10 and CA93/CA63 is a closer comparison as they share a number of acoustic piano sounds. However, as the flagship stage piano, the MP10 offers greater variation and considerably more control over the sound produced.

Okay, well I think that answer's everyone's questions.
It's a beautiful day outside - time to jump on the bike and go for a gentle ride.

Cheers,
James
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Yeah, I got my terminology mixed up, I was thinking that the ES6 was PHI as well.

Aaron

For James,
Thanks for all the news you tell us.

And a special thanks for my problem ... for details, I sent a private message 8 and 9 September ...but i had not you confirm

I believe that the new MP series certainly will get new customers for Kawai.