Hey Dr. Popper, was this keyboard amp a yet to be released amp or one that is already out. BTW, thanks for the brief run through of the NX. What you mentioned about it was what I thought it would be.

Brian - thanks so much for contacting Roland - much appreciated.

Greg.

Dr Popper, James,

Did you'll get a chance to try out the FP-7F?

Brian

Ummm not me I was there for another reason as I said. I looked at the NX the new Juno and the other thingy I was there to see and that was it. I had both Roland and Yamaha to do then onto another city for a TV show.

I think its out one of their little KC ones but they had two linked together to make it stereo. Sounded quite ok.

Dewster,

I had posted this on the Kawai CA13 thread in response to your write up on Note Stretching and String Resonance. LaRate wanted it moved to another thread as he felt that his thread was more to do with the features of CA13 and not a shoot out of DP's. So, please dont mind me posting it here to get a feed back from the pros on this thread.

From the Clavinova website...
String Resonance : CLP380, CLP295GP, CVP509, CVP409GP, CGP1000
String Resonance is available only on their top line models models.

Kawai offers String Resonance on their mid level models as well...
CA63, CA93, CA111, CN42, CN33.

Roland seems to offer String Resonance on all their products which have the SuperNATURAL sound engine...
Piano Effects:
Open/Close Lid (0 — 6),
Cabinet Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
Hammer Noise (-2 — 2),
Damper Noise (Off, 1 — 10),
Duplex Scale (Off, 1 — 10),
Damper Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
String Resonance (Off, 1 — 10),
Key Off Resonance (Off, 1 — 10).
Models which have the SuperNATURAL sound engine include HP302, 305, 307, LX-10F, HPi-6F, HPi-7F, DP-990F, DP-990RF, V-Piano, RD700GFX, RD700NX, FP-7F
(the above details are from the FP-7F brochure).

Is it possible to have the details of Note Decay timings of the above mentioned products (those studied so far).

Brian

Not all of the listed effects included in all SuperNatural pianos.

Only Damper, String and Key Off Resonances are included in cheaper models, but these are included even in the budget models, like F110 and RP201, which have the old sound module (non-SuperNatural, inherited from HP200 series).

Note decay timing is something I only roughly estimate, as there is obviously no hard and fast rule as to how long it should be.

You are free to go through the review text file and correlate anything you like. It's located here.

Edit: I believe you are perhaps referring to the quality of the note decay rather than the timing? Audible looping is the big killer there, something almost all DPs suffer from to one degree or another. Though very often short note decay time and obvious looping go hand-in-hand. Roland SN APs don't have audible looping and the resulting decay is quite realistic sounding to my ears.

On the Roland RD700GX (and F), the decay time is independently adjustable. All of the parameters of what would normally be called the "envelope generator" in a proper synth are adjustable as well: attack, release, decay, cutoff, etc.

That is a different decay...the adjustable bit is the time it takes the note to finish sounding when struck and released...the decay that is blighted by looping in most DPs is the sustained decay, ie, note held until all sound stops...that is not adjustable in any DP that I'm aware of.

Steve

Is it safe to say that Yamaha, Kawai, Roland have the following best key actions:
Yamaha: GH3 & NW
Kawai: Responsive Hammer (RH) & RM3 (wood)
Roland: PHAIII -S & PHAIII

Also for their best sound sample:
Yamaha: Pure CF sampling (4-5 layer)
Kawai: Ultra PHI
Roland: SuperNATURAL

Now, can someone come up with both these featurs as a combination in these company's DP's and at what price.
Lets add String Resonance as an important feature.

<USD 2000:
<USD 3000:
<USD 4000:

Am just trying to figure out the best combination available from companies at different price points to enable people to shortlist and then tryout before buying.

Brian

I found these two high resolution photos of the RD700NX and FP-7F interesting:

http://www.rockpalace.com/gfx_productcode/XL/117088/Roland-FP7F-Black.jpg
http://www.rockpalace.com/gfx_productcode/XL/117086/Roland-RD700NX.jpg

The different material of the black keys is clearly visible. The keyboard of the 7F looks cheaper to me
The NX keyboard looks (and must feel) so much better...

You have a better eye than me, Erard! The lighting in the two photos is completely different (700NX more top/back-lit, slightly yellow coloration; 7F side-lit, blueish whites/blacks), which gives different reflections and ambiance. So I'm not sure where you're seeing the "cheapness" of the 7F. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's not obvious to me.

Yes, I did notice the different lighting. What I was referring to is the shiny plastic look of the black keys on the 7F compared to the NX which seems to have some kind of 'ivory feel' surface treatment on the black keys also.

From Roland literature:
NX - ...The keyboard also features Roland’s acclaimed Ivory Feel, a comfortable and realistic moisture-absorbent material...
FP-7F - ...The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys...

Turning things around, let's say that to me the keyboard of the NX looks classier in comparison to the F7 keyboard.

I personally enjoy the looks and feel, for example, of my C3 grand keyboard (ivorite and wood composite) compared to the '96 C2 I had before - every time I sit down to play.
I have a 'shiny' P90 and in my experience the new ivory-like materials used on many APs and DPs do make a difference when playing - besides looking better, from my point of view.
I'm planning to buy a new DP soon and I have narrowed it down to one of the PHA III keyboards, and now to these two. The different black keys could tip the scale toward the NX for me, even if I don't need the extra functions much.
On the other side, if that's the only difference as far as the keyboard is concerned, for piano use the 7F looks like a good value indeed. We'll see in November, after a hands on test.

Wouldn't the black keys have "ebony feel" or something similar? To me "ivory feel" means they are talking mainly about the white keys, and along with it they likely have some kind of matte finish on the black keys.

I kind of don't believe Roland would go to the trouble of putting "ivory feel" white keys in the FP-7F and then say "oh, what the hell" and just slap in a set of cheap shiny black keys.

The only product where ebony feel is explicitly mentioned is the V-Piano, AFAIK.

Greg.

Just browsing the Roland specs, I see this statement for the RG-1 ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=969&ParentId=21 ):

"The white keys have a two-piece structure that reduces the surface “click” noise when playing."

Can anyone shed any light on this? Why does a two-piece structure reduce the click noise? If it's true, then it looks like there really is a non-cosmetic benefit from the two-piece keys. (although, why oh why don't Roland state this for ALL products that use a two-piece structure? Do some two-piece structures NOT provide this benefit? Arrgh.)

Greg.

I'm still waiting on the NX and FP user manuals. Very curious as to what is added / missing in the NX compared to the GXF.

Manuals should be provided concurrently with the press release (or very shortly after) if for nothing else then to reduce wild and possibly harmful speculation.

Roland?

It sure would be nice to have a rep from Roland provide answers to these various questions.

This is what i've posted earlier on page 5 of this thread.....


With regard to the PHAIII and PHAIII-S, I'd written to Roland to get a feedback and this is their reply:
"PHA-3 is the two piece action from the V-Piano® and PHA-3S is the new one piece composite material action for the FP-series."


Comparing the brochures of the FP-7F and HP-307: (compare the second paragraph of each)

FP-7F: The FP-7F features Roland’s newly developed PHA III Ivory Feel-S Keyboard with Escapement. With the same progressive hammer action and escapement as the top-line PHA III, it offers unmatched expression and performance authenticity, capable of transforming the most subtle finger nuances into sound. It also provides incredibly fast key-repetition action.....
The surface of each white key replicates the unique appearance and comfortable feel of real ivory keys. The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material that provides excellent moisture absorbency and a premium all white appearance around the tops and sides of the keys.

HP-307: The "PHA III" keyboard translates into sound the differences in how you play. The HP307 comes with the "PHA III" keyboard, which delivers superior repetition and expressivity than the "PHA II" keyboard. Along with the "SuperNATURAL Piano sound engine," subtle differences in how one plays are faithfully reflected in the sound.....
The Ivory-Feel keyboard replicates the texture of ivory and ebony. Modeled after high-end acoustic grand pianos, the white and black key tops are made of a material that replicates the unique appearance and texture of real ivory and ebony keys. The white keys consist of a two piece "surface over base material" construction to create the same appearance you would find on an acoustic piano and reduce the noise of fingernails tapping the keys. Thanks to its moisture-absorbing characteristics, the more you play the Ivory-Feel keyboard, the better it feels.

From the above, it seems the ACTION is the same. The difference seems to be in the IVORY FEEL part. The Deluxe version has BOTH White and Black keys coated and also the White keys have a TWO piece construction. The S version seems to have has only the White keys coated and has a ONE piece construction.

Also note that they write both as PHAIII. The difference is when they write the Ivory Feel part in a box. Its either Ivory Feel or Ivory Feel S.

Brian

Ah yes - the brochures. Thanks Brian. I had been reading the web pages only - not the brochures. The brochures appear to be a bit more thorough. For example, there is no mention of ebony-feel or the fingernail clicking on the HP307 site. ( http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1055&ParentId=40 )

Greg.

My guess is that it reduces or removes the echo from a hollow plastic key when you tap it.

I really think you're all massively over-thinking this...

The FP7-F action will be identical except for the appearance of the fake wood sides to the keys on the other PHA-III equipped instruments. They can't say this of course...from a marketing point of view they're not going to say of the FP7-F keys "We took our award-winning ultra-responsive PHA-III action with escapement and ivory feel and made it a bit cheaper and less wooden looking".

It's a PHA-III with white keys made out of one material. Right, there you go. Now you can all go and chillax!

PHAIII action is what everyone would be interested in. The material used should not be of concern. Knowing Roland, it would be of a good quality.

Afterall, The FP-7 is a MMR 2008 winner.

Is there really no single Roland employee reading forums like this and willing to clear this up once and for all ?! Where's the "Roland James" in this respect. Kawai has a better representative I would say; seems that the Roland guys don't give a ....

Here's the query posed to Roland and the reply: FP-7F (PHAIII-S)

My main concern is that key action/behavior should be the same. The material used is secondary.

"Very similar, but the material does make a very slight difference in action/behavior due to the weight of the material used for the keys.

Ivory Feel is only on the white keys as the black keys are made to simulate ebony material which was a more matte, smoother finish than ivory."

Agh. Just got the word from Sweetwater that the 700NX may not be in till December. Crossing fingers that it won't be THAT long... Still hoping for November.

EDIT: Another site projects December 3rd. I hope Roland is being pessimistic with those numbers...

@bsl100 ; so it seems that the FP7F keys are actually pretty good and largely comparable to the NX keybed. The difference is in the details, but it might actually turn out in practice that some may even prefer the FP7F keys above the RD700NX. When they can be compared side-by-side we will know the truth...just a little more patience, let's say a month or tree.

Just noticed something on the video for the RD700NX. It looks like the "Brilliant Grand" might not be SuperNatural.

Watch the video here: http://www.rolandconnect.com/product.php?p=rd-700nx

When the screen flashes through the different pianos and electric pianos it says SuperNatural under all of them (Concert Grand, Studio Grand, Tine E.Piano, Reed E.Piano, SA E.Piano) EXCEPT... it is left blank under the Brilliant Grand.

Interesting...

It's SuperNatural. The video was likely made with an early OS. I suspect the release version will say SuperNatural, like the rest of the patches. It seems a tad redundant to put it on all of the patches.