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#1514281 - 09/13/10 12:02 PM what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ?
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
Just curious as to how hard it will be to learn so i know when its time to learn it.

thanks

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#1514316 - 09/13/10 01:21 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18015
Loc: Victoria, BC
Outside of any context, your question is impossible to answer. How long is a piece of string? How high is up?

It's not the most difficult of the Chopin Etudes, but that isn't saying much, either, because difficulty is all relative to one's background, training, ability, learning curve, etc., etc.
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BruceD
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#1514317 - 09/13/10 01:24 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Just sightread through it once or twice, and you have the answer for yourself.

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#1514335 - 09/13/10 01:41 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
what if you compare it to other pieces, assuming the background of the player is the same for both.

for example clair de lune...

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#1514341 - 09/13/10 01:55 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: durden365
what if you compare it to other pieces, assuming the background of the player is the same for both.

for example clair de lune...


Clair de lune is a piece of cake compared to the Opus 25 No. 12.





Edited by carey (09/13/10 01:58 PM)
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514344 - 09/13/10 01:58 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: BruceD]
hopinmad Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 1001
Loc: Eryri/Manchester
Originally Posted By: BruceD


It's not the most difficult of the Chopin Etudes



I think it's one of the hardest.
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Patience's the best teacher, and time the best critic. - F.F.Chopin

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#1514346 - 09/13/10 02:03 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: durden365
Just curious as to how hard it will be to learn so i know when its time to learn it.

thanks


Durden - What other works by Chopin do you currently play??
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514362 - 09/13/10 02:31 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
Carey I havent tackled any of his works yet as i'm still green on the piano, 5 months. clair de lune is about as hard as i can handle at the moment. also ive never had lessons, 1st movement of moonlight was the first piece i taught myself.

I just love listening to Chopin but all his etudes are so hard...


Edited by durden365 (09/13/10 02:32 PM)

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#1514399 - 09/13/10 03:32 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Durden -

Sounds like you a doing quite well with only 5 months of experience. However, I would strongly encourage you to find a good teacher - otherwise you risk developing some bad habits that might impede your progress. The Opus 25 No. 12 will most likely be out of your reach for a few more years - but that doesn't mean you can't thoroughly enjoy hearing and watching others play it. You might want to tackle Chopin's Prelude Opus 28 No. 20. Its a short but impressive sounding piece - in the same key as the Ocean Etude - and lots of fun to play !!


Edited by carey (09/13/10 04:27 PM)
Edit Reason: Change "Winter Wind" to "Ocean" Etude
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514418 - 09/13/10 04:01 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the advice! winter wind is another one that i really like so ill look into the ones that you suggested.

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#1514433 - 09/13/10 04:25 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: durden365
Thanks for the advice! winter wind is another one that i really like so ill look into the ones that you suggested.


WHOOPS - Sorry - I meant to say that Opus 28 No. 20 is in the the same key as the Ocean Etude - not Winter Wind !! Good luck !!
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514531 - 09/13/10 07:28 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2641
Loc: Netherlands
it took me 15 years of pianoplaying before even thinking about a piece like op.25/12...and it still is a daunting piece to do justice to now, after well, a long time, haha
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Longtemps, je me suis couché de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Mussorgski tableaux d'une exposition/Rachmaninoff etudes tableaux op.39

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#1514562 - 09/13/10 08:20 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
LisztAddict Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 2896
Loc: Florida
Opus 28 No 4, No 6, No 7 are also nice pieces and suitable for people who want to start Chopin. Chopin preludes go from easy to insanely difficult so there is at least 1 or 2 for any level.

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#1514567 - 09/13/10 08:27 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
Orange Soda King Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 6070
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky, United S...
You are correct in saying that all his etudes are hard. Out of the 25 from Op. 10 and 25, it's not the hardest, but it's pretty tiring and easy to get tense as you go along (I play it).

There are plenty of other wonderful works you should study before tackling a Chopin Etude. I went 11 years before I learned one (and I've been playing for just over 11 years, so that means that I'm very new to trying them).

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#1514568 - 09/13/10 08:28 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6101
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
It is graded VA (very advanced) by Bailie, but so are many other etudes...
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Music is my best friend.


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#1514642 - 09/13/10 11:05 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: carey]
Rui725 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 953
Originally Posted By: carey
Originally Posted By: durden365
what if you compare it to other pieces, assuming the background of the player is the same for both.

for example clair de lune...


Clair de lune is a piece of cake compared to the Opus 25 No. 12.





+1


Edited by Rui725 (09/13/10 11:08 PM)

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#1514865 - 09/14/10 11:20 AM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
ok how about op.10 no.2? is that still too advanced for me?

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#1514866 - 09/14/10 11:21 AM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
5 months? And you are seriously considering playing a Chopin etude? Yes, they are all still too advanced, why not begin with some beautiful prelude's, mazurka's or waltzes?
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1514906 - 09/14/10 12:47 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
ferenc_liszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Europe
Chopin etude op.25 no.12 is easy to learn, to memorize text, its very simple but to play it in fast tempo and clean... thats whats difficult. I learn it in 2 weeks, memorized, but i practiced it like three month to be clean. Its not that complicated. I opened topic on op.10 no.2, go read it. Think that here are many pianist that say to them selfs no way men its Chopins etude its hard... Well not all Chopins etudes are that hard. Maybe op.10 no.4, no.8 are hard, but black keys, ocean, and lot of more are EASY!!! Easy for me though...

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#1514912 - 09/14/10 12:56 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: ferenc_liszt]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ferenc_liszt
Chopin etude op.25 no.12 is easy to learn, to memorize text, its very simple but to play it in fast tempo and clean... thats whats difficult. I learn it in 2 weeks, memorized, but i practiced it like three month to be clean. Its not that complicated. I opened topic on op.10 no.2, go read it. Think that here are many pianist that say to them selfs no way men its Chopins etude its hard... Well not all Chopins etudes are that hard. Maybe op.10 no.4, no.8 are hard, but black keys, ocean, and lot of more are EASY!!! Easy for me though...


That's all well and good - but how long have you been playing the piano? The OP is self taught and has only been playing for 5 months.
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514913 - 09/14/10 12:57 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
how long have you been playing?

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#1514915 - 09/14/10 01:04 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: durden365
how long have you been playing?


Who ?? Me or Ferenc_Liszt ??
_________________________
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514917 - 09/14/10 01:05 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
ferenc_liszt Offline
Full Member

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Europe
Carey i didnt know how long he plays piano. I play piano for ten years.

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#1514922 - 09/14/10 01:12 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: ferenc_liszt]
carey Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/13/05
Posts: 6334
Loc: Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted By: ferenc_liszt
Carey i didnt know how long he plays piano. I play piano for ten years.


Thanks for the clarification !! thumb
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YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo

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#1514926 - 09/14/10 01:19 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: ferenc_liszt]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18015
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: ferenc_liszt
Carey i didnt know how long he plays piano. I play piano for ten years.


If you had read the rest of the thread before posting your suggestion that some Chopin Etudes are "easy," then you would realize that making that suggestion to someone who has been playing for five months is somewhat ludicrous.

Regards,
_________________________
BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190

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#1514928 - 09/14/10 01:22 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
durden365 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 95
Loc: Canada
thanks everyone! when i eventually learn this etude i'll definitly post something here for CC.

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#1514929 - 09/14/10 01:22 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
Victor25 Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/30/09
Posts: 1676
Loc: The Netherlands
Saying a Chopin Etude is easy is ludicrous no matter how long you have been playing. imo
_________________________
Currently working on: Perfecting the Op 2/1, studying the 27/2 last movement. Chopin Nocturne 32/2 and Posth. C#m, 'Raindrop' prelude and Etude 10/9
Repetoire: Beethoven op 2/1, 10/1(1st, 2nd), 13, 14/1, 27/1(1st, 2nd), 27/2, 28(1st, 2nd), 31/2(1st, 3rd), 49/1, 49/2, 78(1st), 79, 90, 101(1st)

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#1514934 - 09/14/10 01:25 PM Re: what grade/how difficult is chopin op.25 no. 12 (ocean ) ? [Re: durden365]
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 18015
Loc: Victoria, BC
Originally Posted By: durden365
ok how about op.10 no.2? is that still too advanced for me?


There is another thread on the Chopin Op 10 No 2 Etude. I suggest you read it.

Yes, Op 10 No 2 is too hard for you; many concert pianists with years of study and performance avoid it because it is too demanding of certain aspects of technique.

Don't be misled by the relative simplicity of the look of the notes on the page!

One of the difficulties facing self-taught beginners is that they don't know what they don't know: they don't know what might be difficult, and they often can't judge relative degrees of difficulties among pieces. There have been examples of self-taught players on this forum presenting recordings of works that they didn't know before "learning" them, with which they didn't compare their interpretation of the work with that of professionals, with the result that their performance in no way came even close to approximating a "reasonable" peformance of the work.

There is a lot to learn, but tackling Chopin Etudes after a couple of months of self-study is not a recommended program.

The ability to judge what is appropriate to learn and to play, given ones own abilities, comes with experience and/or through good teaching.

The best you can do if you won't seek out a good teacher is to buy collections of piano pieces that are graded or published for a particular level of development of technique and playing.

Regards,


Edited by BruceD (09/14/10 01:28 PM)
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BruceD
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