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#1507968 - 09/02/10 06:10 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1422
Loc: Essex, England
Hallo Kathleen, it's lovely to hear from you again. Nobuyuki Tsujii is indeed moving - both his own story, and his beautiful playing. You may already know that there's quite a bit of the Van Cliburn competition on YouTube, and he has his own website too.

I am wondering how on earth he manages to learn the works in the first place. Can you get piano music in Braille? And I wonder if he's going to enter this year's Chopin competition?
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#1507974 - 09/02/10 06:15 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
steveMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 154
Loc: El Paso, TX
It's that time of year again for the El Paso Chopin Music Festival, this is the link for anyone who is interested and in the area.

http://www.elpaso-chopin.com/

I am really looking forward to the opening night, this Saturday, September 4th.
_________________________

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#1508511 - 09/03/10 02:47 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
Yes, you can get sheet music in Braille. Then you have to memorize it bit by bit, then transfer what you learned to the instrument. It sounds like magic to me. I mean, I can barely memorize at all even with both seeing and hearing.

(My first boyfriend's father worked this way at the piano, also composed; he had lost his sight to diabetes. He had died years before I met the family, so I was never privileged to hear him play.)

Nobuyuki Tsujii is extraordinary by any standards. I'd heard him before but never watched him before seeing that Cliburn broadcast the other night. One thing that struck me was that he has the same odd head movements as Ray Charles. Neither of them was autistic or anything like that (far as I know), but their movements appear rather like someone with brain damage. Obviously neither has/had the slightest problems with coordination!

OT: Check out "Twin Spirits," a film done about the Schumanns by Sting and his wife. They read from Robert and Clara's letters, and Derek Jacobi narrates. There are both male and female singers and pianists playing the music of that estimable couple (one team for each), some wonderful performances. One of the pianists is the ridiculously young, gorgeous and able Natasha Paremski, who is also a fine player of Chopin.

Kathleen, great to hear from you!

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1509410 - 09/05/10 12:35 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
Check out this lady. Doesn't she look familiar?

After a weekend at Bubonicon, our New Mexico science fiction and fantasy convention, and lots of discussion of trends in vampire literature, I thought I should go ahead and post a story I wrote last year. A couple of our forumites, who shall remain nameless unless they wish to name themselves, wrote "Chopin meets the vampire" stories, and I got inspired and came up with one of my own. It turns out that Chopin makes a great foil for a vampire character; in fact, he's a bit like an Anne Rice-style vampire himself. I also thought it might be worthwhile to write about periods of Chopin's life that did not include George Sand; I decided to avoid even mentioning her, just for fun.

This is unabashed fanfiction, I must warn you. (Well, maybe a little abashed.)

Immortality

Meanwhile, I'm trying to figure out how to get around Poland and the rest of Europe by train, and LisztAddict has been extremely generous with advice. Any travel tips from others will be greatly appreciated, too!

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1509892 - 09/06/10 06:39 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5310
Loc: SC Mountains
Elene, I've read it before but was delighted to read it again. Not only is it a wonderful bit of "alternate biography" for Chopinoholics, Rinaldi's pervious and further adventures are definitely worth persuing in their own right. More please.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1510567 - 09/07/10 01:56 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
shaulhadar Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/07/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Israel
hello all chopin lovers, i have a question, is chopin's last peice the g minor mazurka or the f minor frop op.68? in case of the f minor, i heard a version with is a little bit extended than usual...here is what i mean:
http://nt1k23.com/chomusic/maz68-4.mp3
(if it asks for a pass word and name write username:chopin password: poet)


is this the original or is it an add on by someone? if it is the original why isn't there any notes for the additional part?

thanks ,
Shaul.


Edited by shaulhadar (09/07/10 01:57 AM)
_________________________
check out for my recording smile
http://www.last.fm/music/Shaul+Hadar/Shaul+plays+Chopin+and+Mendhelssohn
and my Chopin page:
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#1510578 - 09/07/10 03:01 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
Shaul, that sounds like a question for Dr. Jeff. My understanding is that no one actually knows for sure which piece was Chopin's last. The mazurka that is usually marked as his last piece may not be. And I have no details about that unless I go and look it all up.

Frycek, thanks for the encouragement! Eventually I want to write about Rinaldi in the Baroque and Classical periods too, and maybe Renaissance England. But first I have to tell about how he became a vampire, back in the waning years of the Roman empire, and I need to do some research for that. None of that will have a thing to do with You Know Who.

SteveMac, how was the opening of the El Paso festival?

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1510635 - 09/07/10 07:37 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5310
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Elene
Frycek, thanks for the encouragement! Eventually I want to write about Rinaldi in the Baroque and Classical periods too, and maybe Renaissance England. But first I have to tell about how he became a vampire, back in the waning years of the Roman empire, and I need to do some research for that. None of that will have a thing to do with You Know Who.

But think of all the other musical luminaries he could meet. He could've been one of Handel's company in England. You've already recounted that he "stalked" Mozart.
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1510797 - 09/07/10 12:43 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
Oooohhh, Handel... but they didn't use baritones much in those days! Perhaps Rinaldi was a financial backer, though, staying out of the spotlight. I'd be very interested in learning more about Handel's life, so that would be a good project for me. Unfortunately I have a sad lack of imagination and can never think of story plots worth a darn. The Chopin story was kind of ready-made.

Always wondered if Chopin was into Handel at all, but he wouldn't have ever had the opportunity to see one of his operas, as they weren't performed in those days. We did hear hints of Delfina performing Handel arias, so Chopin may have done some accompanying of that repertoire.

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1511157 - 09/07/10 10:03 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Mary-Rose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1422
Loc: Essex, England
Originally Posted By: Elene
...Always wondered if Chopin was into Handel at all...


Yes, he did appreciate Handel, Elene - on his travels he was disppointed with some music he heard but upon hearing something by Handel said 'that's more like it'. (I paraphrase as I don't have time to look up the particulars.)
_________________________
Best wishes from MR
http://www.extraloudpurrs.blogspot.com

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#1511209 - 09/08/10 12:42 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Mary-Rose]
steveMac Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 154
Loc: El Paso, TX
Elene, the opening night was fantastic and Claire Huangci is a brilliant pianist anmd so young. It was a real pleasure to watch and listen to her playing. I really hope I have the opportunity to see her in the future. In particular i enjoyed Sonata No 2, Op.35.
_________________________

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#1512630 - 09/10/10 02:53 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: shaulhadar]
Jeff Kallberg Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: shaulhadar
hello all chopin lovers, i have a question, is chopin's last peice the g minor mazurka or the f minor frop op.68? in case of the f minor, i heard a version with is a little bit extended than usual...here is what i mean:
http://nt1k23.com/chomusic/maz68-4.mp3
(if it asks for a pass word and name write username:chopin password: poet)


is this the original or is it an add on by someone? if it is the original why isn't there any notes for the additional part?

thanks ,
Shaul.


Dear Shaul,

Elene's right: we don't know for sure. Some scholars (including me) have argued against the F minor Mazurka as the "last work", the arguments drawing on the dating of the sketch itself, and a reading of the biographical evidence. But not everyone agrees with this interpretation.

I'm in Lausanne, and unable to download the clip you linked to, but I imagine I know what is in it: the Fontana transcription of the sketch (and remember, Chopin only left a sketch of the Mazurka; he did not finish it) leaves out about a third of the music Chopin wrote. There have been various attempts to reconstruct the sketch so as to include this missing music. The most well known is edited by Jan Ekier, but this version - in my opinion - does not get the form correct. There is a better edition by Ronald Smith, but this one too shortens the piece incorrectly (but it is easily fixed by adding a repeat - I write about this in my book).

I personally think the G minor Mazurka is later than the sketch for the F minor Mazurka.

Last night in Lausanne I heard an attempt at a reconstruction of Chopin's first Parisian concert. What a different experience it is to hear the kind of mixed ensemble, mixed performer concert that Chopin was accustomed to! Much food for thought . . .

Jeff Kallberg

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#1514621 - 09/13/10 10:47 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
FrChopinFan Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 67
Loc: southeastern USA
Originally Posted By: Elene
Check out this lady. Doesn't she look familiar?


Who was that artist? It looks like something by Delacroix, but the link says Ange Tissier.

I was at a local historic home a couple weks ago and they had a print on the wall of a man and woman sitting across from each other at the table with a big book open that the man was reading from. The title of the picture was "Reading the Scripture," and it was by N. Currier. What made me do a double take was that the pair looked like Chopin and Sand. Someone must have had a sense of humor. I tried to find a copy of the image online, but I haven't been able to find anything.

Edit - I did find it Currier Print , but in the picture I saw, the guy didn't have dark hair, so you'll have to use your imagination.


Edited by FrChopinFan (09/13/10 11:26 PM)
_________________________
"That nice good-natured Chopin played for us a while. What a charming genius!" Delacroix

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#1514770 - 09/14/10 07:36 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5310
Loc: SC Mountains
Stores just posted this on another thread. Wish they'd used a better portrait.
Chopin autograph for sale - only $35,000
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1514822 - 09/14/10 10:02 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4668
Loc: Illinois
Sorry to get off the current topic, but I am so very excited (rare for me, lately). I am attending a concert on Saturday featuring Jeffrey Biegel playing Chopin's Andante Spianato and Grand Polonaise. HURRAY! and FINALLY!! Something in the Rockford area that is paying a bit of tribute to our hero.

Here is Mr. Biegel playing the what he will be playing Saturday night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtjoVHcPaVE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zlfJTDx53Q&feature=related

I am also going to attend a master class (ha!)on Friday, but it is open to all, so that "all" should certainly include moi. Just a fee of $5.00 to benefit the Symphony.

I do like his performance, but I could do without some of the facial movements during the Andante Spianato. But I am beginning to think that these movement might help some artists pull out that passion that dwells within. Maybe I should try it; it certainly couldn't hurt. I used to hunch my shoulders, but my piano teacher said that was a "no-no."

Anyhow, I am so pleased that the RSO and Mr. Biegel have deemed it fit to celebrate Chopin's 200th birthday, if only in this one instance. Picture me HAPPY!

Kathleen


Edited by loveschopintoomuch (09/14/10 10:05 AM)
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1515764 - 09/15/10 12:08 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Jeff Kallberg Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
Stores just posted this on another thread. Wish they'd used a better portrait.
Chopin autograph for sale - only $35,000


-Frycek,

Where's the other thread?

Jeff Kallberg

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#1515808 - 09/15/10 01:08 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Jeff Kallberg]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5310
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: Jeff Kallberg
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
Stores just posted this on another thread. Wish they'd used a better portrait.
Chopin autograph for sale - only $35,000


-Frycek,

Where's the other thread?

Jeff Kallberg


What's on top of Your Piano?
(not very Chopin intensive)
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1515845 - 09/15/10 02:12 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
I've lost track of the Oct. 17 recital thread. Anything going on? Every so often Box.net sends me a message that my recording of "Melodia" has been downloaded, but I don't know by whom.

The "last" mazurka recording Shaul posted was lovely. I had never really appreciated this piece before. Who was playing?

I looked up Square d'Orleans because I couldn't remember the actual street it's on, that is, the street one turns off of to enter the square, and I found this:

View from 9 Square d'Orleans

It's supposed to be what Chopin would have seen if he looked out his window over at George's place across the courtyard. It doesn't seem right to me, though; my memory (and who knows if it's correct) says that the doorway into George's building should be at the far left.

Kathleen, I'm delighted to hear that there will at last be some Chopin going on in your area for 2010.

Jeff, what's up in Lausanne? I'm beginning to think that I should have gone for that music history degree I was contemplating!

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1516010 - 09/15/10 05:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
Jeff Kallberg Online   content
Full Member

Registered: 09/11/09
Posts: 177
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
Originally Posted By: Jeff Kallberg
Originally Posted By: -Frycek
Stores just posted this on another thread. Wish they'd used a better portrait.
Chopin autograph for sale - only $35,000


-Frycek,

Where's the other thread?

Jeff Kallberg


What's on top of Your Piano?
(not very Chopin intensive)


Thanks -Frycek. How could I have missed this?

Elene: Lausanne was a conference on Chopin and period pianos, mostly. Quite a luxurious number of pianos (from 1802 Broadwoods to 1850 Erards, with a bunch of Pleyels in between; also different varieties - grands, pianinos, square pianos) to hear and to try out.

Here's the website (you have to click for the program):

Harmoniques

The recital by Jean-Jacques Dünki at noon on Saturday was most special for its intelligence and superb musicianship.

But that's all done; I've been home since Sunday, and am getting ready to head down to another Chopin fest at the University of Virginia on Friday and Saturday (with the promise of two excellent recitals by Andrew Willis (on period piano) and Roberto Poli (modern piano).

Jeff Kallberg

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#1516277 - 09/16/10 12:46 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: -Frycek]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4707
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: -Frycek

What's on top of Your Piano?
(not very Chopin intensive)


I think it was me who mentioned the Chopin head, then stores mentioned the autograph...
_________________________



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#1516291 - 09/16/10 01:37 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Mary-Rose]
Rui725 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 953
Originally Posted By: Mary-Rose
Hallo Kathleen, it's lovely to hear from you again. Nobuyuki Tsujii is indeed moving - both his own story, and his beautiful playing. You may already know that there's quite a bit of the Van Cliburn competition on YouTube, and he has his own website too.

I am wondering how on earth he manages to learn the works in the first place. Can you get piano music in Braille? And I wonder if he's going to enter this year's Chopin competition?


There is music in Braille.

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#1516835 - 09/16/10 07:19 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
loveschopintoomuch Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 4668
Loc: Illinois

From the Rendell description of that signed letter...

Chopin's note refers to two of his favorite Nocturnes (Op. 55, nos. 1 and 2),

I don't think that nocturnes, #55 (1 and/or 2) were especially among Chopin's favorites. At least I don't recall ever reading that this was the case.

I do have a bust of Chopin, but I don't keep it on my piano. It has its very own pedestal-type stand (what else would be more appropriate?). And it is placed right in the curve of my grand piano. H. Felder (as M. Chopin) stated that the piano was NOT a piece of furniture and thus was not a place for anything but music.


Kathleen
_________________________
After playing Chopin, I feel as if I had been weeping over sins that I had never committed, and mourning over tragedies that were not my own." Oscar Wilde, 1891

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#1516976 - 09/17/10 01:35 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 5310
Loc: SC Mountains
Originally Posted By: loveschopintoomuch

From the Rendell description of that signed letter...

Chopin's note refers to two of his favorite Nocturnes (Op. 55, nos. 1 and 2),

I don't think that nocturnes, #55 (1 and/or 2) were especially among Chopin's favorites. At least I don't recall ever reading that this was the case.

Kathleen


MaryRose and I think that maybe he'd selected the scores for a student/students.

Welcome back Kathleen. smile
_________________________
Slow down and do it right.

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#1517024 - 09/17/10 03:40 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4707
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I went to my music shop to buy a new guitar and some scores today and asked if they had a Chopin head/bust. They did not, but said they can order one.
However, I would prefer to "see" it before I buy it, so maybe I will have a look when I go to Sydney.
I had one as a child by the way, but to talk to my mother would be totally hopeless... frown
_________________________



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#1518004 - 09/18/10 05:58 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
Congratulations on your new guitar, ChopinAddict.

I've never seen a bust of Chopin for sale that I really liked and thought looked like him. However, our local store Music Mart had a set of drawings of composers that included one of him that struck me as looking unusually close to the real thing. Later, when I got my copy of the death mask, I realized it must have been drawn from that. (Mary-Rose thinks it's too prettified.) That's what I've got hanging on the wall next to my piano.

I suppose I could make it more unnerving and hang up the death mask itself. I'd be too afraid of breakage, and besides, I'd have to dust him.

Yesterday a patient came in who is a fan of Our Friend, and she was asking about my upcoming trip. I mentioned that there is so much marketing of him going on that one can even buy a ceramic effigy of his nose. She laughed and exclaimed, "What next?" and added that they'd probably be selling certain other parts of him if casts had been made of them!

Another patient asked where exactly I was going, and when I said I'd be starting in Poland and ending up in France, he replied, "Oh, so you're taking the Chopin tour?" But yet another patient, when I explained that I'd be going to the Chopin competition, asked, "The what??" Fortunately that is rare in my practice!

Have any of you world travelers had trouble with American credit cards in Europe? I read the other day that many people have had difficulty because European cards now have chips rather than magnetic strips, and the magnetic strip cards don't work at ticket kiosks and that sort of thing.

Elene
_________________________
SPOCK/PICARD 2012

Blog: http://elenedom.wordpress.com
Website: http://kuanyin.elenelistens.com




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#1518008 - 09/18/10 06:03 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: ChopinAddict]
TheHappyMoron Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 984
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
I went to my music shop to buy a new guitar and some scores today and asked if they had a Chopin head/bust. They did not, but said they can order one.
However, I would prefer to "see" it before I buy it, so maybe I will have a look when I go to Sydney.
I had one as a child by the way, but to talk to my mother would be totally hopeless... frown


I also asked in a local music shop (which isn't actually very local) for a Chopin bust but they didn't have one and said they would order one...but they never did.
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#1518010 - 09/18/10 06:07 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Elene Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 1274
Loc: the holographic universe
I'm sure if you look online there will be multiple busts of Chopin available.

Elene

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#1518016 - 09/18/10 06:23 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
TheHappyMoron Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/06/10
Posts: 984
Loc: UK
i would search online but i have developed a mistrust for purchasing anything over the internet.
_________________________
All theory, dear friend, is grey, but the golden tree of life springs ever green.

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#1518088 - 09/18/10 08:48 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: TheHappyMoron]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4707
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: TheCannibalHaddock
i would search online but i have developed a mistrust for purchasing anything over the internet.


Me too... I have never been ripped off to be honest, but I know people who have, including ordering laptops that never arrived...

Some time ago I had another problem, but it seems to have been solved. Parcels and sometimes even letters didn't arrive here. It might even have been somebody who worked at the post office, who knows.
_________________________



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#1518094 - 09/18/10 08:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: TheHappyMoron]
ChopinAddict Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 4707
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: TheCannibalHaddock

I also asked in a local music shop (which isn't actually very local) for a Chopin bust but they didn't have one and said they would order one...but they never did.


I am sorry to hear that. My music shop treats me well, but mainly because I have bought half the shop... ha I was surprised yesterday. They knew all my details (name, address) by heart... They usually also give me a 20% discount, which is good, particularly if something is expensive...
Now that it is finally spring here I want to go to Sydney anyway one day, so I will have a look if I can find a bust I like...
_________________________



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05/27/12 09:28 PM
Achievement of the week - what got you excited?
by MaryAnn
05/27/12 09:26 PM
Join the JOI jazz joint !
by simou
05/27/12 09:26 PM
OT: McDonald's is official sponsor of London summer Olympics
by CebuKid
05/27/12 09:26 PM
Lighting up the touch on my Steinway O.
by Del
05/27/12 09:25 PM
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