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#1521189 - 09/23/10 03:22 PM Yamaha Avantgrand
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6300
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I was thinking of buying the Yamaha N2 one day, although not immediately, but I have seen it is not available at all in Australia at the moment and I don't know when it will be - or if at all...
Does anybody know by any chance if they plan to produce it in Australia too in the future?

Thanks,
CA
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#1521215 - 09/23/10 04:02 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Have you contacted the Yamaha dealer in your area? The piano was introduced over a year ago.

Just for the hell of it I Googled AvantGrand Australia and your post was the first hit!

This added .... I went to Yamaha's site for the AvantGrand, clicked on dealers, and Australia was not listed. That's not a good sign.
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#1521222 - 09/23/10 04:09 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
ChopinAddict Offline
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Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6300
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
I will send them an email expressing my interest... I looked at the Yamaha Australia site, but they don't have it... These are all the digital pianos they have at the moment...
Thanks for the reply!
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#1521227 - 09/23/10 04:15 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
I looked at the Australian site as well under the hybrid listing and no AvantGrand.
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#1521348 - 09/23/10 06:50 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Dave Horne]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6300
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Yes, it is a shame, but I cannot imagine they will not be produced here too one day... It probably only takes some time. By the way, you own a Yamaha N3. Are you happy with it? Does it really feel like a grand?
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#1521374 - 09/23/10 07:23 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: ChopinAddict
Yes, it is a shame, but I cannot imagine they will not be produced here too one day... It probably only takes some time. By the way, you own a Yamaha N3. Are you happy with it? Does it really feel like a grand?


It feels like a grand because it has the real action from a C3 (as I've been told).

I practice mostly with headphones and the TRS (Tactile Response System) is by default turned off when using headphones; you can turn it on though. My initial thoughts were that the keys vibrating to mimic a real action was just hype. Well, it really works and helps to further create the illusion of playing a real grand.

For me a piano is just a tool. I would have bought the latest hybrid from Yamaha simply because I practiced on a GranTouch for so many years. I like a real grand action coupled to a piano that is always in tune.

The piano looks great, sounds excellent (as long as you're playing in the volume range associated with a grand piano), and feels great. When using the built in sound system, it really sounds like a grand piano but only when you play it at the level you would expect to hear a grand piano. At quieter levels, I would prefer to have a tad more bass, but then at a softer level it's really not mimicking a real grand piano.

I personally prefer a deeper key dip and a heavier action, but since this is a real action I could have it worked on. I had the key dip of my GranTouch made greater.

I wish there were more companies making this type of piano but until they do, this is really the only one to buy. When Yamaha comes out with a replacement for this, I'll buy it. You only live once (so I've been told), and you can't take your money with you.
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#1521497 - 09/23/10 11:31 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Dave Horne]
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 6300
Loc: Land of the never-ending music
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I wish there were more companies making this type of piano but until they do, this is really the only one to buy. When Yamaha comes out with a replacement for this, I'll buy it. You only live once (so I've been told), and you can't take your money with you.


I think when there are more companies prices will go down too (because they all want to be competitive). It will happen sooner or later, but I understand at the moment this is the best choice.
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#1521545 - 09/24/10 01:10 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Dave Horne]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
I practice mostly with headphones and the TRS (Tactile Response System) is by default turned off when using headphones; you can turn it on though. My initial thoughts were that the keys vibrating to mimic a real action was just hype. Well, it really works and helps to further create the illusion of playing a real grand.
Be aware though, that if you want COMPLETE silence, you can't get it if you choose to turn the TRS on while using headphones. There'll be a soft/very low volume buzzing sound when you play. It won't bother anybody because it's very low volume, but it is audible. But so is the noise made when you hit the keys anyway. So it's no big deal. Just want to point it out.

Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
At quieter levels, I would prefer to have a tad more bass, but then at a softer level it's really not mimicking a real grand piano.

I personally prefer a deeper key dip and a heavier action, but since this is a real action I could have it worked on. I had the key dip of my GranTouch made greater.
At quieter levels, you can increase the sensitivity setting of the keyboard by setting its value to 1 (default is 2, less sensitive is 3). With this setting, it helps make it feel more like a real piano even at lower volume level, just because the wider dynamic of the sound based on your touch helps compensate for the lack of volume. I think this is the best of both worlds because I never really care for the authentic loudness of a real acoustic piano and much prefer a softer volume. So this setting keeps the liveliness intact while cuts down on the obnoxiously loudness of an acoustic. You should try it some time. Another board member recommended this setting to me and I got hooked on it. Only thing is, it's not the default so you gotta reset it every power cycle.

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#1521583 - 09/24/10 03:37 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
The quieter level I'm referring to is the speaker\amplification, not the 'touch' per se. At soft volume levels the piano lacks some bass but then a real piano would never sound so quiet, right? On older stereo systems there would be a bass boost button to compensate for the lack of bass at softer levels; through the headphones I notice notice that at all.
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#1521597 - 09/24/10 04:35 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
Yes, I understand you meant lower volume and not touch per se. I'm just saying that even if you like to set it at a lower volume, you can still increase the touch sensitivity to compensate for the lower volume. Not compensate to get louder volume again, but compensate to get more dynamic and realism but still be able to enjoy at the lower volume.

The bottom line is that you can still get it to be very piano like even at a lower volume by increasing the touch sensitivity.

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#1521613 - 09/24/10 05:13 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
When the built in sound system plays at a level that is less than what you would expect to hear from a real piano, the bass is lacking, touch sensitivity not withstanding. This is a property of the speaker\amplifier system since through headphones the piano sounds authentic at all levels.
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#1521645 - 09/24/10 06:40 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
EssBrace Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/01/09
Posts: 2486
Loc: Suffolk, United Kingdom
This is all news to me...that you can enable the TRS when playing with headphones...excellent. I do most of my playing with 'phones and was disappointed having previously read that the TRS is disabled when using headphones...when space and money allows the AG N3 is top of my list!

Steve
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#1521851 - 09/24/10 01:38 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: EssBrace]
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
I'll be interested when they allow external access to all of the speakers. Then I can use a software piano to drive the thing and I'll have access to something other than the Yamaha sample set.
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#1521862 - 09/24/10 01:54 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: OldFingers]
elecmuse3 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 304
Loc: Cincinnati
Oldfingers: love your signature! grin
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#1521867 - 09/24/10 01:59 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: elecmuse3]
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: elecmuse3
Oldfingers: love your signature! grin

Thanks. Originally it was "Aspiring Cocktail Lounge Pianist", but when that became unrealistic, I downgraded to the lounge of a retirement home. Now the question is, will I get to play in one before I get put in one. Time is running out.
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#1521872 - 09/24/10 02:05 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Dave Horne]
FogVilleLad Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 4683
Loc: San Francisco
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally prefer a deeper key dip and a heavier action, but since this is a real action I could have it worked on. I had the key dip of my GranTouch made greater.
How was that done? (I thought that it would require different action parts.)

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#1521884 - 09/24/10 02:21 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: FogVilleLad]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: FogVilleLad
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne

I personally prefer a deeper key dip and a heavier action, but since this is a real action I could have it worked on. I had the key dip of my GranTouch made greater.
How was that done? (I thought that it would require different action parts.)


The action pops out just like the action from any other grand. To make the key dip greater the tech removes the paper washers from under the white keys. (You wouldn't want the black keys to dip further than the white keys, right?)

The GranTouch and the AvantGrand pianos are essentially the same construction as any other grand piano except there are no strings. You still have the same working action as any other grand piano; that's what makes these pianos so attractive.
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#1522035 - 09/24/10 07:17 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: OldFingers]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: OldFingers
I'll be interested when they allow external access to all of the speakers. Then I can use a software piano to drive the thing and I'll have access to something other than the Yamaha sample set.


No. Audio from the inputs is not routed to all of the speakers. Since the the auxiliary inputs are two channel only, the output is sent to the left and right channels only and is not fully mixed in with the Avants full multi channel sounds.

Also realize that when the volume of the audio you are sending into the AG drops below a certain level, a noise get effect will kick in and abruptly silence the input. So, for example, the tails of pianos notes from a software (or hardware) piano will prematurely and abruptly be cut off.

Neither of these factors is acceptable to me, and I am pursing this matter further with Yamaha.
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#1522049 - 09/24/10 07:29 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dr Popper Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/30/09
Posts: 1722
Loc: Hancock Park LA (not again)
You can order a Avant Grand from any Yamaha piano dealer in Australia. But there are none available in a showroom to play.
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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.

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#1522100 - 09/24/10 08:45 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: OldFingers
I'll be interested when they allow external access to all of the speakers. Then I can use a software piano to drive the thing and I'll have access to something other than the Yamaha sample set.


No. Audio from the inputs is not routed to all of the speakers. Since the the auxiliary inputs are two channel only, the output is sent to the left and right channels only and is not fully mixed in with the Avants full multi channel sounds.

Also realize that when the volume of the audio you are sending into the AG drops below a certain level, a noise get effect will kick in and abruptly silence the input. So, for example, the tails of pianos notes from a software (or hardware) piano will prematurely and abruptly be cut off.

Neither of these factors is acceptable to me, and I am pursing this matter further with Yamaha.
I've always wondered about whether the AUX INs send the sound to all speakers or just left and right. So thanks for testing this out and reporting back, Lawrence.

I would guess that Yamaha probably takes the position that the main purpose of the AUX IN is to allow you to play along with some song recordings, and the intention is not to be a sound system for external piano voices. So that's why they didn't feel the need to feed the sound into all speakers because that would dilute the stereo effect of the song recordings. By the same token, the assumption of song recordings being the primary sound source into AUX INs means that the song recordings will mostly be generating sound throughout and rarely would taper off slowly like a piano sound does. So they'd set the cut off point higher to keep any floor noise from leaking through.

Just guessing here on Yamaha's logic on why they do what they do. Not trying to defend them. I would have love to be able to feed other piano sounds in myself and have it sound good.

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#1522117 - 09/24/10 09:02 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Melodialworks Music]
OldFingers Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 546
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Neither of these factors is acceptable to me, and I am pursing this matter further with Yamaha.

Good for you. I totally support you in your efforts. I post my complaint about the lack of four-channel access from time to time in the hope that someone from Yamaha might read it and think it's a good idea. I don't see why they would want to limit the applicability of what otherwise seems to be a fine instrument. With the continued development of good software pianos, why buy a digital piano, even a good one like the AG, that does not allow for the exploitation of that technology.


Edited by OldFingers (09/24/10 09:03 PM)
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#1522489 - 09/25/10 03:42 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
The right way would be to have 4 AUX INs that get routed to the 4 channels, and maybe a mono switch to mix any of these AUX INs into all channels, in case the source is only stereo or mono.

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#1522494 - 09/25/10 03:47 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Volusiano]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
The right way would be to have 4 AUX INs that get routed to the 4 channels, and maybe a mono switch to mix any of these AUX INs into all channels, in case the source is only stereo or mono.


Does this mean I'll be forced to buy four channel headphones? laugh
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#1522499 - 09/25/10 03:52 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Volusiano]
Melodialworks Music Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/19/05
Posts: 1319
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
The right way would be to have 4 AUX INs that get routed to the 4 channels, and maybe a mono switch to mix any of these AUX INs into all channels, in case the source is only stereo or mono.


And perhaps more importantly, four AUX OUTs, for recording purposes. Right now recording from the stereo OUTs produces disappointing results.
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#1522500 - 09/25/10 03:59 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Melodialworks Music]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
The right way would be to have 4 AUX INs that get routed to the 4 channels, and maybe a mono switch to mix any of these AUX INs into all channels, in case the source is only stereo or mono.


And perhaps more importantly, four AUX OUTs, for recording purposes. Right now recording from the stereo OUTs produces disappointing results.


I haven't yet recorded using the L and R outs, but I assume I would hear the same information that gets sent to my headphones ...? What I hear in the headphones sounds excellent.
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#1522700 - 09/25/10 09:08 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Volusiano]
altrent Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/25/07
Posts: 61
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
... Another board member recommended this setting to me and I got hooked on it. Only thing is, it's not the default so you gotta reset it every power cycle.


That's such a bummer. frown
I hope Yamaha fixes this in their next Avant Grand model.
It's like you had to re-adjust the seat every time you sit in your car.

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#1522849 - 09/26/10 02:25 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: altrent]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
Originally Posted By: altrent
Originally Posted By: Volusiano
... Another board member recommended this setting to me and I got hooked on it. Only thing is, it's not the default so you gotta reset it every power cycle.


That's such a bummer. frown
I hope Yamaha fixes this in their next Avant Grand model.
It's like you had to re-adjust the seat every time you sit in your car.
They do have a couple of settings that are saved on the power cycle. But most of the rest are not. So it's not like they can't do it. It's almost like they chose not to do it. Why? I would like to know for the love of god!

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#1522866 - 09/26/10 03:14 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/06/07
Posts: 10561
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
I strongly recommend that you chaps write to Yamaha and ask them to add the settings saving to a future software update. As you say, some of the settings are saved, so I'm pretty sure it would be possible to save the others too.

Cheers,
James
x
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#1522898 - 09/26/10 04:47 AM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: ChopinAddict]
Dave Horne Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 5293
Loc: Vught, The Netherlands
They do have a couple of settings that are saved on the power cycle.

What settings are saved on the power cycle?




This added - the following settings are saved:

metronome volume
fine tuning of the pitch
character code
user song recorded to the instrument


Edited by Dave Horne (09/26/10 05:12 AM)
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#1523217 - 09/26/10 06:44 PM Re: Yamaha Avantgrand [Re: Dave Horne]
Volusiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/01/10
Posts: 792
Originally Posted By: Dave Horne
They do have a couple of settings that are saved on the power cycle.

What settings are saved on the power cycle?

This added - the following settings are saved:

metronome volume
fine tuning of the pitch
character code
user song recorded to the instrument
Dave, the ones I know about are the metronome volume and the pitch. So you know more than me here.

Kawai James,

I took up on your suggestion and wrote to Yamaha, but I'm not holding my breath waiting to hear back from them. But it is a good suggestion so I did it just now.

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