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#1526589 - 10/01/10 11:26 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Ah ... Grace Slick. A beautiful girl with a powerhouse of a voice. Surrealistic Pillow actually wore down on my turntable. smile
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Play New Age Piano
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#1526593 - 10/01/10 11:39 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Pogorelich.]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.

But then again, just because someone looks okay or good doesn't mean they are automatically crappy musicians..

I'm thinking of Richard Goode. Nothing fabulous to look at, but what a musician! His Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms... need I say more?

Andras Schiff never matched Zac Efron in his prime, but he certainly has his admirers, and many on this board gain much that is positive from his videos. His snobbish attitude about Liszt and Rachmaninov is a total turnoff to me, and sour memories of a concert where he played the Brahms D minor still haunt me. I never saw a pianist walk on stage with such a condescending look on his face, nose in the air. It was awful. I suppose he played well, but I don't remember.
_________________________
Jason

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#1526594 - 10/01/10 11:44 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
People who are not good looking can certainly have big careers as entertainers. They probably need more hard work and more luck.

And of course good looks can be a matter of opinion.
_________________________
(I'm a piano teacher.)

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#1526595 - 10/01/10 11:46 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: eweiss]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: eweiss
Ah ... Grace Slick. A beautiful girl with a powerhouse of a voice. Surrealistic Pillow actually wore down on my turntable. smile

Pillow was a great album -folkish-pop-psychedelic- but IMO Jefferson Airplane's greatest album was After Bathing at Baxters. Grace was at the height of her powers, but alas, the music making was just too sophisticated (it was called 'atonal pop'), and they left many of their listeners completely baffled. The subsequent album to that, Crown of Creation was a concession.

But of course I wasn't there at the time, though I've studied these albums, and when I look at a lot of pop music today, do people realize what was going back then?
_________________________
Jason

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#1526596 - 10/01/10 11:49 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: argerichfan]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.

But then again, just because someone looks okay or good doesn't mean they are automatically crappy musicians..

I'm thinking of Richard Goode. Nothing fabulous to look at, but what a musician! His Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Brahms... need I say more?

Andras Schiff never matched Zac Efron in his prime, but he certainly has his admirers, and many on this board gain much that is positive from his videos. His snobbish attitude about Liszt and Rachmaninov is a total turnoff to me, and sour memories of a concert where he played the Brahms D minor still haunt me. I never saw a pianist walk on stage with such a condescending look on his face, nose in the air. It was awful. I suppose he played well, but I don't remember.


Hmm, I don't know who that is. Should I bother checking him out?

I remember I was really enchanted by Ivo when I first discovered him. I guess looks don't play SUCH a bad part.. =)
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1526598 - 10/01/10 11:50 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
david_a Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2913
Richard Goode, while nothing fabulous to look at, is not ugly either, just average looking I guess; and a genuinely nice man. I would love to meet him.

Courtney Love is (to me) positively ugly, and I wouldn't jump at the chance to meet her, but she makes big bucks as an entertainer.


I'm not sure what Jane Eaglen looks like; the camera seems to have a tough time getting close enough to get her face in focus. smile But sometimes she sounds like the most beautiful woman in the world. smile
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(I'm a piano teacher.)

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#1526603 - 10/02/10 12:00 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Pogorelich.]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.

I remember I was really enchanted by Ivo when I first discovered him. I guess looks don't play SUCH a bad part.. =)

Ivo's picture on his recording of the Tchaikovsky concerto was... well a knock out.
_________________________
Jason

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#1526606 - 10/02/10 12:09 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: david_a]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: david_a

I'm not sure what Jane Eaglen looks like; the camera seems to have a tough time getting close enough to get her face in focus. smile But sometimes she sounds like the most beautiful woman in the world. smile

Jane is enormous... I have heard her live at Covent Garden... glorious singing, but we got that from Jessye Norman and Rita Hunter too, LARGE women! Birgit Nilsson proved that one didn't need to be built like Israel Kamakawiwoʻole to sing the great dramatic soprano roles.

I would love to meet Richard Goode. For some annoying reason I have yet to hear him live in concert. But I will be back stage when that happens...
_________________________
Jason

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#1526610 - 10/02/10 12:30 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
cast12 Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/14/09
Posts: 219
In almost any endeavor, attractiveness is rewarded.

I'd imagine that in piano competitions, which are evaluated very subjectively, attractiveness is especially rewarded.

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#1526618 - 10/02/10 01:03 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: argerichfan]
Dara Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/18/09
Posts: 1028
Loc: west coast island, canada
Originally Posted By: argerichfan
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.

I remember I was really enchanted by Ivo when I first discovered him. I guess looks don't play SUCH a bad part.. =)

Ivo's picture on his recording of the Tchaikovsky concerto was... well a knock out.


Not to bad looking on this album either! I bought this record the year it came out -1982, when I first heard about Ivo. I was so sad a few months later , when the record warped, no longer playable, when I left it sitting on a sunny spot in my place. I saved the record cover , just the same.


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#1526738 - 10/02/10 09:55 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
WinsomeAllegretto Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/18/10
Posts: 828
One time I was at a competition. When I read my comment sheet, after some helpful comments, the judge had written "And you look good too." But I didn't win. So apparently looks isn't everything, lol.

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#1526756 - 10/02/10 10:51 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
Palindrome Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/22/01
Posts: 3914
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
It's a factor. Work with it. Dress well but not so well that your clothes are a distraction. Keep your hair under control (Argerich, in her present state serves as an example of what not to do), but again, not distracting - that is have your hair done so that it looks as if little or nothing was done to it. Perhaps a minimal amount of subtle makeup. AFTER THAT, PUT YOUR APPEARANCE OUT OF YOUR MIND, KNOWING YOU'VE DONE THE BEST YOU CAN WITH IT, AND PLAY WELL.

I don't think I've ever given any advice like this before. A good thing, too.
_________________________
There is no end of learning. -Robert Schumann Rules for Young Musicians

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#1526793 - 10/02/10 11:59 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i remember wearing a red sweater for a Christmas performance. The quartet was surprised and 'nicely' said something to the effect of 'what an interesting idea.. to wear red'.

ha ha.

i actually got some positive comments afterwards 'I am so tired of pianists who wear black'. I never wore red again tho.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1526823 - 10/02/10 12:41 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Palindrome]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4526
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
It's a factor. Work with it. Dress well but not so well that your clothes are a distraction. Keep your hair under control (Argerich, in her present state serves as an example of what not to do), but again, not distracting - that is have your hair done so that it looks as if little or nothing was done to it. Perhaps a minimal amount of subtle makeup. AFTER THAT, PUT YOUR APPEARANCE OUT OF YOUR MIND, KNOWING YOU'VE DONE THE BEST YOU CAN WITH IT, AND PLAY WELL.

I don't think I've ever given any advice like this before. A good thing, too.



Subtle make up? Why? What if we like make up? =)

Haha this reminds me of the time when I played in a gala concert/competition, and was later told that at the angle the jury was sitting, they could see straight up my skirt.. I think I almost died of mortification!!! Well, good day to wear underwear I guess.. Bad day to wear a short dress when the stage is above the audience seats..

Also, if you look good you'll feel good. It's one of the most basic appearance laws =P
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#1526824 - 10/02/10 12:42 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Pogorelich.]
eweiss Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 2393
Loc: Beautiful San Diego, CA
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Also, if you look good you'll feel good. It's one of the most basic appearance laws =P

I never used to believe that. But I think you're right. Not that you can't feel good without looking good, but it helps. smile
_________________________
Play New Age Piano
http://www.quiescencemusic.com

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#1526834 - 10/02/10 12:54 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Pogorelich.]
Rui725 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/19/09
Posts: 953
Originally Posted By: Pogorelich.
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
It's a factor. Work with it. Dress well but not so well that your clothes are a distraction. Keep your hair under control (Argerich, in her present state serves as an example of what not to do), but again, not distracting - that is have your hair done so that it looks as if little or nothing was done to it. Perhaps a minimal amount of subtle makeup. AFTER THAT, PUT YOUR APPEARANCE OUT OF YOUR MIND, KNOWING YOU'VE DONE THE BEST YOU CAN WITH IT, AND PLAY WELL.

I don't think I've ever given any advice like this before. A good thing, too.



Subtle make up? Why? What if we like make up? =)

Haha this reminds me of the time when I played in a gala concert/competition, and was later told that at the angle the jury was sitting, they could see straight up my skirt.. I think I almost died of mortification!!! Well, good day to wear underwear I guess.. Bad day to wear a short dress when the stage is above the audience seats..

Also, if you look good you'll feel good. It's one of the most basic appearance laws =P


haha, nice to know that underwear is optional.

Edit: Appearance is a bonus, just the way life is...


Edited by Rui725 (10/02/10 12:56 PM)

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#1526859 - 10/02/10 01:23 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Palindrome]
Damon Online   happy
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 6067
Loc: St. Louis area
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
It's a factor. Work with it. Dress well but not so well that your clothes are a distraction. Keep your hair under control (Argerich, in her present state serves as an example of what not to do)


LOL, she looks like she should be pushing a shopping cart around town, far from a grocery store.
_________________________
It's been scientifically proven that Horowitz sucks.

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#1526869 - 10/02/10 02:04 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Palindrome]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: Palindrome
Argerich, in her present state serves as an example of what not to do...

But that's her trademark! I think it looks sorta cool. smokin
_________________________
Jason

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#1526882 - 10/02/10 03:08 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
apple* Offline


Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 19862
Loc: Kansas
i do too..

i think it awesome that she relies on her pianisticism (how's that for a word?) and doesn't tart up.
_________________________
accompanist/organist.. a non-MTNA teacher to a few

love and peace, Õun (apple in Estonian)

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#1527060 - 10/02/10 08:03 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: apple*]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
I imagine after three husbands and a big career it's hard to care about looks.

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#1527080 - 10/02/10 08:32 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: MikeN]
argerichfan Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 8822
Loc: Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted By: MikeN
I imagine after three husbands and a big career it's hard to care about looks.

How many wives has Dutoit had?

Let's no go there, okay? As Andromaque posted several months ago, women of high accomplishment are always suspect, because... well it doesn't set well in a man's world.

But in the 'pop' world it's so much easier. Therefore we get the questionable talent of Britney, Mariah, Madonna, etc... but they have more money than I do. Hmmm... nice.
_________________________
Jason

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#1527089 - 10/02/10 08:47 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
Andromaque Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/29/08
Posts: 3886
Loc: New York
smile

When it comes to Argerich, Noblesse oblige.. She can do whatever she pleases..

Dutoit's bad temper is world famous, Ask anyone in MOntreal, basically..

You know his (their) grand-daughter (Anne-Sophie) is a film director (at the age of 16 or something close to that)..


Edited by Andromaque (10/02/10 08:47 PM)

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#1527093 - 10/02/10 08:51 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: argerichfan]
MikeN Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 579
Loc: Ohio
I wasn't trying to attack Argerich by any means. It's just something I imagine Argerich saying.

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#1527173 - 10/03/10 12:19 AM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 281
Loc: New York City!
Appearance is always extremely important in the performance arts! Remember: classical music is just another branch of show business as far as the general public is concerned. Good looks will always work tremendously in favor of the performer.

The two most successful concert pianists in history were Franz Liszt, and Igance Jan Paderewski. You cannot find too more extravagantly handsome and exotic looking men among all the great pianists. This is no coincidence.

I am certain that with his stupendous pianistic gifts, Liszt would have been famous no matter what he looked like, but he would not have been a matinee idol had he looked hum-drum. And with all due respect to Paderewski, I do not think he would ever have become famous had he not looked as gorgeous as he did in his youth.

There is no shortage of amazing pianists today, but if you look at the CD covers of relatively successful young pianists and violinists, few of them are homely. We live in a lookist era, and managers, concert hall promoters, and publicists, most of whom might as well be deaf, respond to the visual attractiveness of performers as their first tool of promotion.
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#1527534 - 10/03/10 05:06 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2626
Loc: Netherlands
maybe to you, or some retarded specimens in the aidience it would mean a great deal, looks/hairdo/grimasses/histrionics/sexual charisma, but there are others, me included, who don't give a defecation about how a certain musician looks, as long as s-he is a master of the instrument and of the music involved and knows to transport the audience to, well, heaven/nirwana/outerspace/olympus, what-have-you only by playing, not by being a dish...
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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#1527543 - 10/03/10 05:17 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 281
Loc: New York City!
Dolce -

Your words are not so sweet as your moniker. To whom are they addressed?
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#1527546 - 10/03/10 05:19 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2626
Loc: Netherlands
to the OP and the general content of all the responses, what's a moniker?:)
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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#1527560 - 10/03/10 06:03 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
Jonathan Baker Offline
Full Member

Registered: 06/09/09
Posts: 281
Loc: New York City!
Dolce,

The "general content" varies.

It is a tiresome fact that too many people in all walks of life, and every imaginable circumstance, are quite shallow with regard to physical appearances. People are attracted to those possessed of classically symmetrical features, strong and graceful figures, smooth skin, lustrous hair, and so forth. For a bikini contest these may be necessary attributes, but for a musical artist they should be irrelevant.

But musical artists are often romantic surrogates (again, I refer to Liszt and Paderewski to name but two). Audience members may fantasize a performer as an imaginary lover, or idealize the artist as someone they would want themselves to be.

You and I may not feel that way, but countless other do, and they buy tickets, and managers take note. It would be an exercise in denial to pretend that the music industry is not overwhelmingly preoccupied with promoting the more sexy looking pianists, violinists, singers, and conductors. Just take a look through the CD covers and arrive at your own conclusions about this.

This is on my mind lately, because a young pianist I know and very greatly admire as an artist is not likely to have the career I believe he is worthy of. He is very short and without distinction in outward appearance and not handsome in the least by conventional standards. He is getting no attention regardless of the astonishing beauty revealed through his hands. It really does make me angry, but there is little I can do to turn around the surface values of an entire society.
_________________________
Jonathan Baker
http://www.BakerPianoLessons.com/index.htm

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#1527597 - 10/03/10 06:47 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jonathan Baker]
stores Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/09
Posts: 6646
Loc: Here, as opposed to there
Originally Posted By: Jonathan Baker
Dolce,

The "general content" varies.

It is a tiresome fact that too many people in all walks of life, and every imaginable circumstance, are quite shallow with regard to physical appearances. People are attracted to those possessed of classically symmetrical features, strong and graceful figures, smooth skin, lustrous hair, and so forth. For a bikini contest these may be necessary attributes, but for a musical artist they should be irrelevant.

But musical artists are often romantic surrogates (again, I refer to Liszt and Paderewski to name but two). Audience members may fantasize a performer as an imaginary lover, or idealize the artist as someone they would want themselves to be.

You and I may not feel that way, but countless other do, and they buy tickets, and managers take note. It would be an exercise in denial to pretend that the music industry is not overwhelmingly preoccupied with promoting the more sexy looking pianists, violinists, singers, and conductors. Just take a look through the CD covers and arrive at your own conclusions about this.

This is on my mind lately, because a young pianist I know and very greatly admire as an artist is not likely to have the career I believe he is worthy of. He is very short and without distinction in outward appearance and not handsome in the least by conventional standards. He is getting no attention regardless of the astonishing beauty revealed through his hands. It really does make me angry, but there is little I can do to turn around the surface values of an entire society.



I wouldn't base your friends lack of success on physical appearances alone. Happens all the time everywhere. Many of the most famous pianists working today have waited a LONG time to get noticed. The key is to keep working and working and working and working...ALWAYS striving for perfection and giving the absolute best of yourself with each and every performance (even if 3 make up your audience)... choosing your words carefully (because you never know just who you may be talking to)...NEVER turning down a gig (no matter how crappy the circumstances)...relentlessly chasing after your goal in every way, shape and form and devouring any/everything that you feel might help you understand music better. It's HARD work! No one is going to hand it to you whether your face is worthy of a magazine cover or not (before anyone says anything there ARE exceptions to this last depending on who you know and how well you fare with extra-curricular activities...some in the industry are living proof).

You're right, however, that looks DO have an impact on what people listen to (many of our own members have shown proof of that), but I agree with dolce. Looks don't matter to me...in fact I could care less. The ONLY thing that DOES matter is what comes out of the piano...is it good or not? I realise that's just one opinion and what SHOULD be isn't always the case.
_________________________

"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy

"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."

♪ ≠ $


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#1527609 - 10/03/10 06:58 PM Re: Pianists appearance? [Re: Jophiel]
dolce sfogato Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/29/10
Posts: 2626
Loc: Netherlands
let's play naked from now on, that'll sort out the best among us, haha.
_________________________
Longtemps, je me suis couch de bonne heure, but not anymore!

Couperin pices, Ravel tombeau de C

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