Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Hear Piano Comparisons- Grotrian/Yamy/S&S/Baldwn/ M&H/Shigeru, & Now: Bluthner?

You know I've been following this thread, sort of, but it really makes no sense.

The other month WNYC had a radio show about pianos other than Steinway. They played a recording of a Fazioli that made the piano sound so bad it was laughable. And the Fazioli has a really nice sound.

These type of comparisons are valid only if the same recording venue, same mike setup and same equpment are used and the different pianos are rolled into the recording spot.

Otherwise I think there is no real comparison being made here other than between recording techniques.

And BTW JeanneW we've been struggling through your choice for so long... What was it? Did I miss it somewhere? I know you want a Steinway. What size did you pick? Old/New?

Derick:

On my pc it doesn't play thru Windows Media Player or Realplayer, but through Jukebox and my husband is having a hard time with it also. It plays a millionth of a second then cuts out; then pauses and plays another millionth of a second, and keeps going on like that.

Lloyd's watching football right now. Gotta get him back up here to fix this later. What I can hear sound *absolutely awesome*.

I'm even wondering if it's the same piano I'm hearing on some CD's that I'm trying to find out what piano it is. Pianist/composer Michael Gettel plays a piano that has a very distinctive echo like quality. Well, I can't really hear your soundclip that well, but what I am hearing of it makes me wonder if it sounds like that other piano.

Holy Moley! Oh, man. What I can hear sounds absolutely

I'll try again later.

DON'T TAKE THAT SOUND CLIP OFF TOO SOON!!!!!

Jeanne W

P.S. When did you last get your piano tuned? To my untrained ears it sounds right on.

MusicMatch Jukebox is a PITA! I have it too and am ready to pitch it. Anyway, this may be the problem... Bring it up (wait 10 minutes haha), go to Option->Playlist->Settings. Make sure the MP3 box is checked. Check it if it isn't and try again. That's probably too simple to be the problem but it's worth checking out before you pull Lloyd away from the football game!

Derick

Grotriman:

I did buy a piano! Here's the thread.

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/8015.html

I agree with you that there should be a disclaimer (did I do that?) here that listening to soundclips of a piano might be misleading.

We should consider that the recording of the piano can make a difference in how it sounds (the recording setup and possible manipulation of the final recording) and also that you are listening to one particular piano - and pianos can differ somewhat one to another due to differences in
voicing, etc.

The best experience of a piano is to *go out and play one*. But barring that, for those who don't have the opportunity, well...

I do feel listening to soundclips can have some value. Many of them seem pretty realistic, certainly fairly representative of the real thing.

As far as variables, an example of what you are pointing out can be heard in the many Steinways on CDs. There are so many recordings done on Steinways you can hear the variables you are talking about. I think I said this on this thread before - I've heard Steinways on CDs that vary widely in how they sound.

An example of this can be heard in a Liz Story CD. She is a Steinway artist. I -hopefully correctly- assume she is playing Steinways on all of her CDs. Story's "Welcome Home" CD is a collection of pieces from her various CDs. Listen to Clip #1 Bradley's Dream, OK sounding Steinway, then listen to clip #10 Escape of Circus Ponies. If that's a Steinway, it's awfully peculiar sounding, almost harpsichord like. What do you think?

So yes, G, your point is well taken.

Link to hear soundclips from Liz Story CD. Click below, then scroll down to reach the soundclips.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...=2-5/ref=pd_ka_b_2_5/002-8654022-6420050

Jeanne W

Derick:

Lloyd had some trouble getting the soundclip to play but finally got it. As I was listening, your playing and your piano brought a big smile to my face. Oh, how beautiful.

I hope hope hope you are going to contribute that piece to the PW World CD. I'd love to have a copy of it. Are you making any CDs soon? I'll buy one.

What a gorgeous sounding piano. And I love those dee-da-da-da-dee-dee-da's - how you tickle the ivories in the treble.

Are you planning on having a concert soon? I'm betting lot's of PW members would attend.

Jeanne W

Music downloaded from the net can be exactly as good as on a CD... IF it has the same quality.
But most music you find on the net is compressed, to make it smaller and easier to download.
A CD is about an hour, and it's about 700MB. That's about 12MB per minute. Compress it to a MP3 and you'll have "good" sound for a tenth of that space.

But if you find music of CD-quality on the net, it will be the same thing as a CD. You need to have a digital output on the soundcard and then connect it to your stereo to get the same sound as when you play your CD though.

We'll need to have MUCH faster internet before this will be a reality though, i think.
..."Download my concert from yesterday, it's only 2GB"... Don't think there would be many takers...

Thanks Jeanne for your glowing review. I haven't decided if I am going to put that piece on my CD or not. The song I want to put it after is in the same key so I will either have to change keys, rearrange the order of the songs or simply not include it.

Anyway, when/if I get the CD produced I will send you a free copy.

Derick

Are we hearing a Bluthner here?

I may have found a soundclip of a Bluthner! In the process of searching on the internet for a soundclip of a Bluthner piano, a link to an Ebay page came up. If you click on the link below, you'll be taken to an Ebay page that states the seller cannot tell you which German piano they are selling.

You can scroll down the page to the big red lettering "Hear Before You Bid" to hear a soundclip. This soundclips are in purple on the left. The piano sounds fantastic.

But the question is, is it really a Bluthner? If you scroll way down past the soundclip, to the bottom of the page, you will find photos of the piano, including a shot of the inside. If you click on the smaller photos, they get bigger.

Can anyone verify from the photo of the plate and string set up whether this is a actually Bluthner?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...mp;item=3756085856&rd=1&tc=photo

Jeanne W

Derick: I'd love to have a copy of your CD! Thank you so much.

Jeanne, it is definitely not a Bluthner. It is not single strung, does not have the signature blue stringing braid, or the Bluthner soundboard decal. The one picture is of an upright action.

Curry: I didn't really think the soundclip sounded like a Bluthner. It's not a good thing that the search for Bluthner brings up this ad. Ebay buyers beware! Misleading things are going on. (Everyone here says this, don't they?)

A recent CD (collection of different pianists/composer's music) I bought has a selection on it. Immediately upon hearing it for the first time, I thought, it reminds me of a Bluthner.

Now, I could be waaaaay off here. I just remember the Bluthners I played struck me as being so very different in tonal quality. As "fundamental" a tone as could be. No complexity at all.

That is the way the piano on Selection #5 strikes me. But then as I listen, I also start to wonder if the piano being played in Selectin #5 by Mia Jiang could actually be a digital piano - it is so "un"-complex.

Is there anyone here who is familiar with the Bluthner sound who can comment on whether they think this sounds at all like a Bluthner to them?

Again, I could be way off the mark here.

Jeanne W

To listen to Selection #5 by Mia Jiang, click on the link below. It will take you to Amazon.com Then scroll down the page to click on #5

(Make sure you're listening to Disc #1)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A.../sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/102-3288741-0268925

Anybody up for guessing what kind of piano is on track #9? If you click on the soundclip above you will also be able to hear track #9 Orcas by Michael Gettel. Gettel is playing "that piano" - the one that has a very distinctive echo like quality - I'd love to know *what-piano-it-is*.

I've heard this same sounding piano from several different sources now. Either it's the sound of the piano, or a some recording technique that lends a reverb/echo quality. At @ 24 seconds into the soundclip, you'll hear what I'm referring to. A quick run up in the treble with a distinct echo. That wows me. Any guesses what kind of piano this is?

(Listen to Track #9 Orcas at 24 seconds)

Jeanne W

Jeanne, #5 is not a Bluthner, sounds like a Yamaha. #9 is definitely a Baldwin SD-10.

To hear a Blüthner model 1 go to the Classical Grands website.
The opening flash movie is a model 1. You can also hear a more extended example of that piano on our instruments page.

I hate to spam like this but it seems that Jeanne W. really wants to hear a Blüthner.

Thanks for the link Steve. Mr. Wild is truly amazing. I recently had the priviledge of providing for him a Shigeru SK EX from my showroom floor for recording purposes here(NYC). A magical combination of musician and instrument. I know we are not exactly neighbors, but if you ever come my way, stop in and say "hi" and try this piano.

Best
Peter

Thanks, Alex, for providing the info re: the Bluthner soundclip.

It's funny. Neither my husband nor I would guess the Classical Grands soundclip of the Bluthner is a Bluthner. We don't think it sounds like the Bluthners I played.

That could be due to faulty memory on our part, or the recording (which does seem to me to have a lot of "reverb-echo" quality in it) or because the Bluthners I played really did sound a bit different than the Bluthner in the soundclip.

Interesting.

The Bluthner in the soundclip is glorious.

Jeanne W

Jeanne W,

That is a Blüthner model 1 grand piano.
The reverb is all natural with no electronic enhancement. It was recorded at Seattle's Townhall in September, 2002.

I have the entire recording and it is glorious!

Blüthner's are very idiocencratic instruments.
If they are serviced to aggresively you won't hear it's true voice.

The Bluthners I heard at Alex's "Cassical grands" were absolutely superb!

Actually the best I had ever heard!

No wonder, you couldn't recognize the sound, Jeanne W.......

norbert

Where can I hear a Bosendorfer 290 with moderately hard hammers (also one with extremely hard hammers, one with medium hammers, one with moderately soft hammers, and one with extremely soft hammers)?

88, you're having AS delusions again. They use a medium hard pressed Renner Wurzen AA felt hammer. They don't sound at all good with rock hard hammers or too soft hammers. So unless you get one and overdose it with lacquer or another hardening solution, or needle hammers to death, you're not going to find one.

Alex,

That Bluthner concert grand does sound nice. Of course, it doesn't hurt having Alexander Paley playing the piano.
I agree with Jeanne, the recording sounds really "wet".

Jeanne, don't think that you have a poor memory. You didn't play any concert grand Bluthners at my shop. And I am sure that if you heard one of the Bluthners you tried recorded in the same hall, with the same mic set up, the same pianist, and the same repertoire, you would certainly recognize their similar character.

Alex,
what do you mean by servicing a Bluthner too aggressively? Are you speaking to voicing, or something else?
It may be a matter of semantics, but I feel that in order to find a Bluthner's best voice, the tech cannot be timid. Well, whatever approach you used for the recording on your website ( and what a gorgeous website it is ) seems to work quite well. Of course, the best part of your approach was having the great Alexander Paley being the pianist on the recording!

Keith,

I have followed several technicians who have not taken the time to properly assess the Bluthner hammer. They will over needle and end up with a woody or punky sound. The pianos will sound muted and shallow if this is done.

That particular model 1 sounded like a brass marching band walking over broken glass when I first met it. It was a fine piano but nothing close to what you heard on our site.

I believe Alexander Paley to be among the greatest pianist living today. The fact that he is not a household name in the United States is a crime in my opinion.

I have heard Paley in other live recordings in better halls with better mic's and the advantage of professional recording engineers. I still think that our recording best captures the sound of the Blüthner piano.

I think our Blüthners were better then any other I have heard in any shop or recording. I will admit that since I prepared that piano and all of the Blüthners we carried perhaps my ego is speaking here.

That piano even sounded good with me playing it.