Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Taubman/Golandsky methods

Of course one of their most dubious claims is that their DVD's are worth $500.

You can't make that comparison. Teaching and performing are two totally different skills. Some of the best pianists in the world probably can't teach at all, and vice versa.

I've observed a few of Golandsky's master classes. She seems to know what she's talking about, and her comments are quite insightful.

"Seems to know what she's talking about, and her comments are quite insightful" describes any good piano teacher anywhere.

It's a great leap from there to the kind of claims that are made by her and on her behalf.

I think you'll find Taubman is already recognized around the world as a great pedagogue. Your performance of Chopin's B minor is a real achievement but doesn't really come into it. Come back uninjured in 30 years time and maybe then judgements could be made.

Recognized by great pianists, or recognized by the notebook-toting quick-fix crowd mentioned above?

The pedagogy lecture circuit becomes its own self-sustaining inward-looking culture after a while, separate from the rest of the world. The opinion of persons inside that culture is not particularly relevant.

Bit of a sweeping generalization?

Thanks, chopin_r_us
It's the the Bb minor I've got there at the moment. I'll be putting the B minor on there soon, though.

As I've said, I studied Taubman for four years with a well-regarded Taubman teacher. What I am saying is that I could never have reached this level of playing with Taubman technique alone.

Your implication that my technique could be a ticking time bomb to RSIs in x years is based on a complete lack of knowledge of my playing mechanism and practice habits....what's up with that? It takes a great deal of strength to be able to play in a relaxed enough way to tackle the piano repertoire with finesse.

Building up this strength is a slow process which does not involve anything to do with Taubman principles. It's a process which does not involve the somewhat more immediate rewards promised by T/G.

Once developed, this strength allows pianists to move with great freedom. Rotation is seldom used, because it is seldom needed. It is strength in the muscles of the palms, and strength in the muscles of the belly of the forearm.

Yup. No apologies though, because it's a pretty accurate one. Nobody is stepping up with examples of major well-known performers who promote Taubman.

Rather an insightful generalization at that.

I think perhaps that this is more due to the fact that many teachers teach relaxation and arm weight without being Taubman followers, than it has to do with a criticism of the technique. Or in other words, they don't have the corner market on playing without pain and with freedom.

Justanotherpianist - if you are saying your playing has Taubman as a foundation - then I agree with the rest of your post. If you've turned your back on it then...

Not that Taubman started anything. All those teachers or 'quick fix crowd' as Dave calls them who spoke about a singing touch taught the same thing. Here's the Lhevinnes:

I cannot say my playing is based on a Taubman foundation. If a given passage calls for a modicum of rotation I am by no means afraid to use rotation.

I would say the foundation of my technique is NOT Taubman....but I use my Taubman training as an auxiliary force when it is needed. And don't get me wrong, it IS useful, in fact more than useful, it is ESSENTIAL for certain kinds of passage. But these passages are rare...there is ONE of them in the entire Rachmaninov Third Concerto.

The majority of playing requires a different approach to technique. In the words of my girlfriend, who is a MONSTER pianist, 'you don't want movement that's not intrinsically related to the passage you are playing'.

The strength which I described in my previous post is what is required in order to have the utmost control over the ballance of textures at the piano. This strength is developed by doing things at the piano which would make a Taubman teacher cringe.

Avoiding injury at the piano does not require a Taubman technique. In order to avoid injury, we must have good practice habits and a fundamental understanding of what RSI's are and what causes them.

I have yet to see a hardcore Taubman adherent produce a great recording. You will find in the professional circuit that something like the approach I describe is the norm. There is a range on the professional spectrum, no doubt.

But you don't get many people who obsess about rotation to the degree that Taubman/Golandsky do.

Rotation can be a useful tool in certain situations, but it simply isn't the cornerstone which T/G think it is.

@ JustAnotherPianist

Hey I liked your Chopin Sonata Recording thank you for posting it!

As I was watching it I thought... I know this guy from somewhere... then it hit me... Is this guy from the movie Battlefield Earth?

There's a pedagogy lecture circuit?

You're on the antipodean bump of same
no?

Apparently so!! I certainly do get around a lot (in the last 12 months in any case), so if talking to piano teachers frequently means you are part of a circuit..... YEP!!!!

But the term "Pedagogy lecture circuit" sound so... organised, so..... conspiracy theorist! Here in Australia there is one biannual Piano Pedagogy Conference, so I guess that would qualify, and then there are state Music Teacher Association conferences, also usually biannual, so maybe they are part of the 'circuit' as well? (That means there would be, on average, 3 or 4 piano teacher conferences held in all of Australia/New Zealand each year, and most teachers would only be able to access 1 conference per annum.)

Then there are the in-store events that print music retailers hold, but I'm not sure that is so much part of a 'pedagogy lecture circuit' as it is about product education and promotion - letting teachers know what's new that they can use in their teaching, what new music has been composed and arranged, etc.

And then there are events put on by the examination boards, but again, not so much pedagogy, more about the latest syllabus developments.

The original reference to a circuit made it sound as if there is this well-worn track that shysters can plod around fleecing piano teachers as they go. Does Australia just not boast a lot of shysters, or is our circuit not circuitous enough, or.....?

My guess is the 'circuit' only really exists in someone's imagination. I've attended a number of master classes and can't think of one that didn't have something valuable to offer. Maybe someone needs to get out more.

tubbie.. you might seek info in the Pianists' corner. there seem to be fans there.

There is in the USA. At the major conferences (MTNA and NCKP), one sees the same names over and over and over again. Breaking into the circuit is difficult. I've applied to present at MTNA at least five times on three different topics and have yet to be selected. Other friends of mine have had similar luck getting a slot to present.

What's worse is the divide between performers, college faculty, and teachers of precollege students in the US. It's rare to find a performer with the local symphony visiting area schools and giving additional recitals and masterclasses, and colleges tend to trade faculty recitals with each other, rarely inviting concert pianists (whose fees are often too high) for concerts or masterclasses.